Zimmerman case

[OZZY]

Hyphenated Americans gotta love em

Any other countries stupid enough to do that?  I never heard of an African-German, or a Mexican-Frenchman, or an American-Nigerian.

Sorry maybe you are unaware that the only Americans would be the Native Americans.  You do remember them?  The people group whose genocide was the back drop to western expansion. 

All of the rest of us come from some other country.  There many events planned throughout the U.S. to celebrate particular cultures.  All Americans are free to mention their ancestry except those of us who are of African descent.  Unlike the other ethnic groups populating America who still maintain much of their cultural heritage those of African descent were not afforded such luxuries.  The brutal assimilation of slavery was designed to strip us of native languages and customs and identity.  Can we at least mention the continent of our ancestry without being belittled?  Come on........the arguments are getting weaker and weaker.

umm you do know the Indians were immigrants also?

 

[Castor Muscular]

All of the rest of us come from some other country. 

An African-German comes from "another country" than Germany.  They're just not so stupid (or politically correct, same diff) as to call them African-Germans in Germany. 

 

[prophet]

TM's reaction was different than G&T's, because they are spiritually very different.  TM was an evil person, a drug dealer, a rebellious youth, and deserving of death....according to the Law of God.
G&T is  a law- abiding citizen, a Pastor, a child of God.
The moment TM assaulted GZ, the case went from harrassment  to assault with deadly intent.
What we don't have, is audio of the racist epithets that TM hurled, as he tried to beat GZ to death, the violent threatenings, the aggressive, hateful, savage attitude.
I have been there, but I didn't shoot my way out.  I pastored in Englewood, Chicago, IL.  I have been assaulted, and had my life verbally threatened several times, by young bastards, with no respect for authority....for good reason, they've had no father.
This is sad all of the way around, but the bottom line is: TM threatened GZ's life, and GZ only bothered TM.  One is annoying, the other is illegal.  One deserves instruction, training, maybe even fines; The other deserves death.
Florida won't miss another dead thug...ugly truth.

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Your post is laughable Prophet.  I do not remember any indications that he was a drug dealer with a pocket full of rocks when they found his dead body.  Since he was at his father's house and his mother and father have been divorced he was probably not a bastard.  I do not think the penalty for carrying skittles and ice tea or even drugs is death in the America or any biblical text.

The fact that you were assaulted does not give you the right to declare open season on young African-American males. 

You really give me too much credit.  If Zimmerman had continued to approach me after I warned him to stop his pursuit, I would have probably spanked him as well.  The difference is that I would have been expecting him to have a gun and he would not be here to spin his tale of "the poor white victim of black aggression" that was a result of his stupidity.

Your post to my friend reveals why the racial divide remains just as wide as it always has in America and in the churches.  You should be thankful that Paul did not just look at the aggressive, dope using/peddling, immoral bastards that were the makeup of Europe and say they deserve to die and the world is better off without them but instead he was guided by the Spirit of God to bring the Gospel to them.  Even after these violent, immoral, druggy, bastards stoned him and left him for dead.  Your form of American Christianity is unrecognizable when juxtaposed with the Christianity of Scripture.

I have a pastor friend who was hit in the head with a bat by some young African-American males while out on visitation in their neighborhood.  He was hospitalized and almost died.  His reaction was totally different than yours.  His wife and he reached out to the families of the young men after they were arrested.  One of the mothers has come to Christ and attends the church he pastors.  He has returned to the neighborhood with the Gospel and God has used him in the lives of the people in that area.  He seems to be following the example of Scripture and it seems to be working.  Imagine that.

1. TM had been suspended from school for drug possession...do your homework before you speak.
2. You don't know me.  I said I pastored in Englewood.  I started the church,by knocking doors.  90% of the congregation was Black.
Before that, I was a youth pastor in Gary, IN...where the cong. was mostly black.  You assumed that I didn't minister to young Black thugs, and their families...wrong, again!  But it feels good to call me a racist, huh?
3. Rebellious teens deserve death....says the Law of Moses.  I didn't write it.  You lookin at that picture of TM when he was 12.  Look at what he was when he died.
4.  You start beating someone down, they begin to fear for their life, especially when that person is using the language that TM probably was.  Don't tell me TM didn't curse him, and use racial epithets, you don't live under a rock, G&T. 
5.  I said that this was sad all around, cuz it didn't have to go down this way.  But I'm not fooled by the media portrayal of this.
GZ profiled TM
TM, the habitual law breaker, assaulted him, rather than explaining himself, and/or using legal methods.
GZ, all keyed up by the whole incident, over reacted, possibly.
None of it is pretty.
Let me help you, the racism you projected on to me, came from you.
Thanks for mentioning us, The Euro's always forget we were here first,...Anishnabe.
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[rsc2a]

[quote author=prophet]1. TM had been suspended from school for drug possession...do your homework before you speak[/quote]

possession ≠ distribution


[quote author=prophet]2. You don't know me.  I said I pastored in Englewood.  I started the church,by knocking doors.  90% of the congregation was Black.
Before that, I was a youth pastor in Gary, IN...where the cong. was mostly black.  You assumed that I didn't minister to young Black thugs, and their families...wrong, again!  But it feels good to call me a racist, huh?[/quote]

The fact that you apparently think black and thug are synonymous definitely is evidence of (at least some) racist thought patterns.

[quote author=prophet]3. Rebellious teens deserve death....says the Law of Moses.  I didn't write it.  You lookin at that picture of TM when he was 12.  Look at what he was when he died.[/quote]

The Law of Moses says you shouldn't eat shrimp or wear polyester. Do you follow those commands as well?

Paul says we all deserve death. Are you advocating for mass murder?

[quote author=prophet]4.  You start beating someone down, they begin to fear for their life, especially when that person is using the language that TM probably was.  Don't tell me TM didn't curse him, and use racial epithets, you don't live under a rock, G&T.  [/quote]

Pure speculation.

[quote author=prophet]5.  I said that this was sad all around, cuz it didn't have to go down this way.  But I'm not fooled by the media portrayal of this.
GZ profiled TM
TM, the habitual law breaker, assaulted him, rather than explaining himself, and/or using legal methods.
GZ, all keyed up by the whole incident, over reacted, possibly.
None of it is pretty.[/quote]

Which media portrayal: the one that shows GZ to be Darth Maul or the one that shows TM to be Darth Maul (because both sides seem to be doing everything they can to make the "other guy" evil incarnate).

 

[prophet]

The ban was on mixed cloths, and I'm all for no poly, i hate the feel of man made material against my skin.

If you think I started a church in a black neighborhood, that had 200 murders in it last year, because I was a closet racist, you are silly.
  If you think I was a youth pastor in Gary, IN before that ,because I had prejudices against all black youths, you are silly.
  If you think that I never met a black youth that wasn't a thug, you are silly.
    If you think that I didn't purposefully target young black street thugs, because I have a burden for them, you don't know me.
    If you think that TM wasn't a thug, you haven't been on the streets, like I have.
  If you think that the only time TM ever had drugs on him, was the 2 times he got caught at school, you haven't been on the streets, like I have.
  The truth is, you don't have enough experience in the field to speak on this, you just copy the liberal popular knee jerk reaction of the day, and defend the minority.
  I am in a minority that has been crapped on, too.  But I got over my bitterness, and preached the Gospel among my African brothers, with much success, praise God.
  Now I am preaching among Anishinabe, my people. 
  Call me names if you want to, but I'm speaking from 20 years of ministry in the streets of inner cities, and my own life in those streets before that.

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[rsc2a]

The ban was on mixed cloths, and I'm all for no poly, i hate the feel of man made material against my skin.

Way to miss the point.  :

[quote author=prophet]If you think I started a church in a black neighborhood, that had 200 murders in it last year, because I was a closet racist, you are silly.[/quote]

Yes, that would be silly. I think you have (subconcious?) racist thoughts because of what you've said, not because of where you started a church.

(FTR: Englewood did not have anything close to 200 murders last year. The entire city of Chicago had 500, and Englewood was the focus of a major policing initative (which actually pushed the murder rate up in adjacent communities).)

[quote author=prophet]If you think I was a youth pastor in Gary, IN before that ,because I had prejudices against all black youths, you are silly.[/quote]

What's silly is that you think skin tone has anything to do with it.

[quote author=prophet]If you think that I never met a black youth that wasn't a thug, you are silly.[/quote]

I don't feel like going back to check if it was every time, but I believe you are consistently adding the qualifier "black" to (what I believe is) every usage of the word "thug". I know you have several times at a minimum. And that is racist.

[quote author=prophet]If you think that I didn't purposefully target young black street thugs, because I have a burden for them, you don't know me.[/quote]

Past Christian missionaries had a burden for the "naked backwards savages" too. That didn't mean they weren't harboring racist tendencies towards them.

[quote author=prophet]If you think that TM wasn't a thug, you haven't been on the streets, like I have.[/quote]

I've actually lived in the inner city for quite a few years now, but thanks.

[quote author=prophet]If you think that the only time TM ever had drugs on him, was the 2 times he got caught at school, you haven't been on the streets, like I have.[/quote]

It's not that confusing. I'll say it again:

possession ≠ distribution

You have labelled TM as a dealer. You have no proof at all. In fact, your entire "how this had to go down" is pure conjecture.

[quote author=prophet]The truth is, you don't have enough experience in the field to speak on this, you just copy the liberal popular knee jerk reaction of the day, and defend the minority.[/quote]

You clearly know me so well.  :

Tell me: do you even know where I live or my ethnicity?

[quote author=prophet]I am in a minority that has been crapped on, too.  But I got over my bitterness, and preached the Gospel among my African brothers, with much success, praise God.[/quote]

They aren't African.  :-\

 

[graceandtruth]

Well rsc2a said it all so well that I will just say, "See rsc2a's posts".

 

[prophet]

Ok, I'll spell it out....When I say 'Black Thugs', I am referring to BLACK thugs.  It's germaine to the discussion at hand, because a 'black thug' was killed.
If we were discussing some case where a Neo-Nazi skinhead was shot by a Filipino neighborhood watch patrolman, than I'd say 'white thug', and have all the Crackers made at me. 
Like I said, your 'racist detector' is malfunctioning.  And Englewood had 200 murders last year, is what I heard on the news.  Regardless, the point was that I was in a 'bad neighborhood' on purpose...and people that I have led to the Lord, and pastored, live all over Englewood : from Garfield blvd., to 79th, and the E-way to California.
My favorite restaurant is Fred n Jacks, at 76 th, and Vincennes(fresh pineapple shakes, and footlong Maxwell Polish dogs), I spent 3 weeks this winter, in Dearborn, trying to help a church reaching Muslims...but I'm a racist, cuz I know a drug thug when I see one.

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[Sherryh]

prophet, Dearborn has the largest population of Muslims in the USA.........Thank you for caring  that's like witnessing in Century Village that is 90% Jewish.............

 

[samspade]

There are "black thugs" just as there are "white thugs" just as there are "filipino thugs" just as there are "________ thugs." I don't think anyone is arguing that point. What is up for debate is whether TM was a "thug" or not. So far no evidence has come out that he was anything other than a young man who got in some minor trouble at school (no worse than many of us). Was he cocky and confrontational? I don't know the answer to that. Maybe Zimmerman called him out? None of us were there, and any news accounts we read are slanted.

The bottom line is that a young man is dead who shouldn't be. As I write this, there was a 23 year old black man shot to death in my city last night. There have been at least a dozen shootings so far this year. He was a gang member, as were almost all of the other shooting victims. On the one hand, they reaped what they sowed. On the other hand, they are people that God loves and Jesus died for. Therefore, they are people that I am called to love. So I weep for his death, just like TM's. I weep for a society that thinks of young black men as disposable. I weep for all the young black men who are labeled as thugs just because they are black and act like normal teens (don't forget, white kids get suspended from school everyday for marijuana possession). And I do what I can to get involved in their communities and lives.

And if I ever stop weeping for them, I'll weep for myself and what I've become.

 

[Castor Muscular]

What is up for debate is whether TM was a "thug" or not.

I don't know if he was a thug, depending on how you define "thug".  All that has been established with evidence is that he was pretty heavily into weed (maybe he considered Obama a hero and was emulating him?), and he was a misogynist.  The evidence comes from his twitter comments and re-tweets.  His twitter account was "No_Limit_Nigga", which has been deleted, but I think the Daily Caller or some such journal captured all his tweets before they were erased.  I won't reproduce any of them here, due to the bad language.

 

[cave_dweller]

What is up for debate is whether TM was a "thug" or not.

I don't know if he was a thug, depending on how you define "thug".  All that has been established with evidence is that he was pretty heavily into weed (maybe he considered Obama a hero and was emulating him?), and he was a misogynist.  The evidence comes from his twitter comments and re-tweets.  His twitter account was "No_Limit_Nigga", which has been deleted, but I think the Daily Caller or some such journal captured all his tweets before they were erased.  I won't reproduce any of them here, due to the bad language.

sounds like a regular ""opie taylor""

 

[samspade]

What is up for debate is whether TM was a "thug" or not.

I don't know if he was a thug, depending on how you define "thug".  All that has been established with evidence is that he was pretty heavily into weed (maybe he considered Obama a hero and was emulating him?), and he was a misogynist.  The evidence comes from his twitter comments and re-tweets.  His twitter account was "No_Limit_Nigga", which has been deleted, but I think the Daily Caller or some such journal captured all his tweets before they were erased.  I won't reproduce any of them here, due to the bad language.

I seem to remember Opie getting in trouble for fighting, breaking windows and lying about it, going places he wasn't supposed to...

Around here a thug is a violent person. A thug would have been armed. Marijuana use and bad language online wouldn't really qualify.

sounds like a regular ""opie taylor""

 

[Castor Muscular]

I seem to remember Opie getting in trouble for fighting, breaking windows and lying about it, going places he wasn't supposed to...

I didn't call him a thug, but I can't believe you're actually trying to establish some moral equivalence between Opie and Trayvon. 

Yeah, I recall those episodes where Opie said stuff like, "Plzz shoot da #mf dat lied 2 u!" and talking about cheap hos and what to do with a [something like a cat], while sitting behind the school building smoking a blunt, after which he posted pictures of himself flipping the bird with both hands.  Those were the good old days of TV. 

 

[qwerty]

Gee paw,  if I had known it was wrong to bash old man Zimmerman's skull into the pavement I would have stayed with Whitey and the gang checking out the ho's in front of Floyd's barber shop.

 

[cave_dweller]

What is up for debate is whether TM was a "thug" or not.

I don't know if he was a thug, depending on how you define "thug".  All that has been established with evidence is that he was pretty heavily into weed (maybe he considered Obama a hero and was emulating him?), and he was a misogynist.  The evidence comes from his twitter comments and re-tweets.  His twitter account was "No_Limit_Nigga", which has been deleted, but I think the Daily Caller or some such journal captured all his tweets before they were erased.  I won't reproduce any of them here, due to the bad language.

I seem to remember Opie getting in trouble for fighting, breaking windows and lying about it, going places he wasn't supposed to...

Around here a thug is a violent person. A thug would have been armed. Marijuana use and bad language online wouldn't really qualify.

sounds like a regular ""opie taylor""

REALY!!!  areyou are going to actually make that argument, or did you just think i was too stupid to be able to forumulate an educated response to your insane ramblings? There is a huge difference between the culture of this kid and that of a home grown rural child.

 

[samspade]

"REALY!!!  areyou are going to actually make that argument, or did you just think i was too stupid to be able to forumulate an educated response to your insane ramblings? There is a huge difference between the culture of this kid and that of a home grown rural child."

I didn't make any judgement on your intelligence or ability to argue. I would like to point out, however, that you missed the point entirely. You're trying to compare a fictional character who was idealized for television to a real life person. But you are correct, TM didn't live in Mayberry. Of course, neither did anyone else. More to the point, if you think that rural children today don't encounter the same issues with drugs and online postings as their urban counterparts then you are quite naive.

It has been argued in this thread that TM deserved to be killed because he'd used marijuana and posted trashy tweets. And you seem to agree with that sentiment. If that is true, then a large percentage of the teenage population, rural, suburban and urban deserves to die for similar behavior. My argument has been, and is, that no one has presented any evidence that TM was anything more than a mixed-up teen who made a few bad choices. But in some peoples' minds that makes him a thug so his death is okay.

I'm not even arguing the events of that night. I wasn't there and don't know what happened, and that's true for everyone else posting in this thread. I'm appalled by the supposed "Christians" who assume that his killing was justified because he was young and black, and had gotten in trouble at school.

 

[Castor Muscular]

If, as has been argued in this thread, TM deserved to be killed because he'd used marijuana and posted trashy tweets, then so does a large percentage of the teenage population, rural, suburban and urban. Is that the argument you're making?

No such thing has been argued, as far as I know.  Unless some new evidence or information surfaces to prove something to the contrary, he (legally) deserved to be killed because he assaulted GZ. 

I was just responding to the allegation that he was a thug.  I don't know if he was a thug, but he sure wan't the poor little 5-year-old angel depicted by much of the media.  Even the hooded picture is deceiving. 

I do find what Obama said to be credible, though, that if he had a son, he'd be like Trayvon.  Obama was obsessed with marijuana and has matured into a full-fledged thug -- and in Obama's case, I do mean "thug".

 

[samspade]

I seem to remember Opie getting in trouble for fighting, breaking windows and lying about it, going places he wasn't supposed to...

I didn't call him a thug, but I can't believe you're actually trying to establish some moral equivalence between Opie and Trayvon. 

Yeah, I recall those episodes where Opie said stuff like, "Plzz shoot da #mf dat lied 2 u!" and talking about cheap hos and what to do with a [something like a cat], while sitting behind the school building smoking a blunt, after which he posted pictures of himself flipping the bird with both hands.  Those were the good old days of TV.

I didn't try to establish some moral equivalence between Opie and Trayvon. That was Cave Dweller. I was just pointing out that, on paper, some of Opie's behavior wasn't very angelic.

 

[rsc2a]

If, as has been argued in this thread, TM deserved to be killed because he'd used marijuana and posted trashy tweets, then so does a large percentage of the teenage population, rural, suburban and urban. Is that the argument you're making?

No such thing has been argued, as far as I know...

prophet did...