Zionism and Judaizing. Is there an equivalence?

[Ekklesian]

By Zionism, I mean the idea that racial Jews still have divine right to the land of ancient Israel, and that a Jewish state should exist there with Jerusalem as its capitol.

Modern Israel springs from both religious and political sources. The biblical promise of a land for the Jews and a return to the Temple in Jerusalem were enshrined in Judaism and sustained Jewish identity through an exile of 19 centuries following the failed revolts in Judaea against the Romans early in the Common Era. ​

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I am posing the question after reading this post: https://www.fundamentalforums.org/threads/god-will-not-be-mocked.13003/post-261920

Zionism is a defacto doctrine in a majority of Evangelical denominations, and especially in Baptist and Pentecostal churches, in large part due to the influence of John Darby and the proliferation of the Scofield Bible.

I'm not justifying the recent and cowardly Hamas aggression, but the Palestinians displaced by who are now Israel, whose sole claim to the land is an appeal to a covenant with Yahweh, have a genuine grievance if it's not true.

So, is there some parallel between Zionism and a return to the law? Is Zionism to the world, as Judaizing is to the church?

 

[Dr. Huk-N-Duck]

By Zionism, I mean the idea that racial Jews still have divine right to the land of ancient Israel, and that a Jewish state should exist there with Jerusalem as its capitol.

Modern Israel springs from both religious and political sources. The biblical promise of a land for the Jews and a return to the Temple in Jerusalem were enshrined in Judaism and sustained Jewish identity through an exile of 19 centuries following the failed revolts in Judaea against the Romans early in the Common Era. ​

​

(citation)​

​

​

I am posing the question after reading this post: https://www.fundamentalforums.org/threads/god-will-not-be-mocked.13003/post-261920

Zionism is a defacto doctrine in a majority of Evangelical denominations, and especially in Baptist and Pentecostal churches, in large part due to the influence of John Darby and the proliferation of the Scofield Bible.

I'm not justifying the recent and cowardly Hamas aggression, but the Palestinians displaced by who are now Israel, whose sole claim to the land is an appeal to a covenant with Yahweh, have a genuine grievance if it's not true.

So, is there some parallel between Zionism and a return to the law? Is Zionism to the world, as Judaizing is to the church?

Your premise (hence questioning) is couched in some erroneous logic. I’m going to literally use a Jewish resource to respond so that I can’t be accused of anything sinister here: https://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/are-jews-a-nation-or-a-religion

 

[abcaines]

So, is there some parallel between Zionism and a return to the law? Is Zionism to the world, as Judaizing is to the church?

Absolutely not. Zionism is a national issue. God promised Abraham He would give his descendants the land. God is promising a small sliver of land to the Jews. Hardly a burden to much larger nations.

Judaizing is the practice of zealous Jews to bring Christians under their authority and control in religious matters. The Apostle Paul contended endlessly with them as they sought to make the grace of God of no effect.

When Christ sets up His kingdom in the millennium, He will rule the nations with a rod of iron. Christ will rule not only the Jewish nation but all nations.

 

[Ekklesian]

Your premise (hence questioning) is couched in some erroneous logic. I’m going to literally use a Jewish resource to respond so that I can’t be accused of anything sinister here: https://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/are-jews-a-nation-or-a-religion

I'm not sure what I'm missing. Nothing in your cited article said anything differently than I did as far as the identity of the Jews.

Perhaps my use of the term 'racial' wasn't the best, but a race is a people of common descent. And it was easier than saying 'the children of Abraham according to the flesh.'

Hence abcaines's chosen wording.

 

[Ekklesian]

Absolutely not. Zionism is a national issue.

That's not entirely accurate. Returning to that land is a vital tenet.

God promised Abraham He would give his descendants the land. God is promising a small sliver of land to the Jews. Hardly a burden to much larger nations.

Judaizing is the practice of zealous Jews to bring Christians under their authority and control in religious matters. The Apostle Paul contended endlessly with them as they sought to make the grace of God of no effect.

When Christ sets up His kingdom in the millennium, He will rule the nations with a rod of iron. Christ will rule not only the Jewish nation but all nations.

Whom does Paul identify as heirs of the promise to Abraham?

 

[Ekklesian]

I think we may be thinking differently about what a nation is. I'm not using nation and state as wholly synonymous.

 

[Dr. Huk-N-Duck]

I think we may be thinking differently about what a nation is. I'm not using nation and state as wholly synonymous.

Modern Israel or ancient/Biblical Israel?

 

[Ekklesian]

Modern Israel or ancient/Biblical Israel?

I am using 'nation' in the sense that we speak of the Indian nations. We're speaking of peoples, not political borders.

It was in that sense that I read abcaines's response that Zionism is a national issue, but I realized he was including the political and geographical sense as well.

Is your question about the land or the people?

 

[Ekklesian]

Well, it looks like that it can't be helped but that this will turn into a discussion about Dispensational Premillennialism, and that's not what I had intended.

But I do see a parallel between Zionism and the Judaizing of the early church.

How can the resistance and criticism of Zionism be seen as a mockery of God otherwise?

 

[Dr. Huk-N-Duck]

Is your question about the land or the people?

I was trying to figure out which you were talking about in the original post, that’s why I attached the link to clarify.

 

[Ekklesian]

I was trying to figure out which you were talking about in the original post, that’s why I attached the link to clarify.

Zionism is about the right and duty of ethnic and religious Jews to return to and claim the ancient land of Israel and to set up their true religion through which their Messiah will establish them as the rulers of the world.

 

[Dr. Huk-N-Duck]

Zionism is about the right and duty of ethnic and religious Jews to return to and claim the ancient land of Israel and to set up their true religion through which their Messiah will establish them as the rulers of the world.

I know WW2 took it from theory to reality, but it took this to begin fulfillment of biblical prophecy.

 

[Bob Jones V]

If you're a dispensationalist (not necessarily a follower of Darby at all), the promise to the National Jews that the land is theirs has never been rescinded.

 

[zechariah]

If you're a dispensationalist (not necessarily a follower of Darby at all), the promise to the National Jews that the land is theirs has never been rescinded.

Psalms 137. By the rivers of Babylon, there we sat; we wept also when we remembered Zion.

 

[zechariah]

Could you explain this psalm?
Psalms 137. By the rivers of Babylon, there we sat; we wept also when we remembered Zion.

 

[abcaines]

Could you explain this psalm?
Psalms 137. By the rivers of Babylon, there we sat; we wept also when we remembered Zion.

It's a lament of the exiles from the land of Israel, specifically, Judah. The mountain referred to as Zion was where the temple once stood. However, because the Jews had been unfaithful to God, He expelled them from the land by bringing in King Nebuchadnezzar to destroy the temple and carry the Jews captive to Babylon.

It's likely they were sitting on the banks of the Euphrates and it's canals remembering their past national heritage. Upon recalling what they had lost because of their sin, they wept.

 

[abcaines]

Psalm 137 opens with the captives being asked by the Babylonians to sing them the songs of Zion. Whether the request was out of a desire to hear music from the Jewish culture or they were mocking them by making them sing songs of their homeland, it stung to hear them ask them to sing. Think of it... You are carried away against your will from your home to a foreign country and a different culture. Your life has been turned upside down and now your captors want you to sing them songs about the home they've ripped you away from? I think your response would be similar to theirs.

 

[Ransom]

Could you explain this psalm?
Psalms 137. By the rivers of Babylon, there we sat; we wept also when we remembered Zion.

Zion is the mountain that Jerusalem sits on. It stands for the Jewish homeland. The Psalm is about Jews being exiled in Babylon and being homesick for their own country.