"treasure_lost"'s Pastor Fired!!

Westcott and Hort dabbled with the occult and communicating with spirits, and had a club called the "Ghostly Guild", which included a man named Lightfoot, who created a Lexicon to support their new Greek Text.
And everybody in the Guild clapped.

And that new Greek Text? Its name was Albert Einstein.

See, I can spin wild drunken fantasies having no bearing on reality too. Mine are just more fun.
 
I have to admit, looking through that last letter to Hort, I have to wonder why this bit never caught the KJV-onlyists attention:

I do not for a moment forget what slavery is, or the frightful effects which [Frederick Law] Olmsted has shown it to be producing on white society in the South; but I hate it much more for its influence on the whites than on the niggers themselves. The refusal of education to them is abominable; how far they are capable of being ennobled by it is not so clear. As yet everywhere (not in slavery only) they have surely shown themselves only as an immeasurably inferior race, just human and no more, their religion frothy and sensuous, their highest virtues those of a good Newfoundland dog. (Hort, Life and Letters, 458.)​

Nah. On second thought, they'd have to start cheering him on.
 
I'm contemplating writing a book on KJV-only lies, so this just saves me research and writing later.

I wish you would. I would buy several copies to hand out to people who are a tad more open to correction than UGC. It could do some good.
 
I wish you would. I would buy several copies to hand out to people who are a tad more open to correction than UGC. It could do some good.
If and when I get to the finished product, it'll be a free e-book. I don't think there's much profit in the subject matter, and it'll probably turn out to be more of a monograph than a full-length book in any case. Unfortunately, the KJVers have turned the Internet into scorched earth regarding a lot of these related topics, so my hope is to do at least a little bit to slow the spread.
 
Spam deleted. - Ransom
 
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Maybe he'll get it this time.

We're going one step at a time. Waiting for Ransom's response on quote 1. We will stick with it until he is exposed, then move to quote 2.


Then we continue and I'll slowly demolish all his disinfo smearing one at a time.

People need to know what a disinfo agent looks like so they can learn to never believe a word they say.


Unless he runs away, verifying this anyway.
Focus on what I just said about quote 1 ONLY, Ransom. No tricks or shrouding your saving face in extra pages of red herrings.
 
What's the matter. Afraid to go one step at a time since you know you'll be exposed?

Go ahead. Keep frantically doing this:
Screen Shot 2020-07-27 at 6.51.43 PM.png
We got this disinfo agent on his toes! Run, little hamster, run! Spin your web of lies!

If you just keep posting more paragraphs without addressing one thing at a time, no one will notice you're trying to push posts back to cover them up!
 
Frankly, at this point, UGChuzzlewit is basically just frothing at the mouth and wobbling in place, anyway. Since he hasn't actually made a coherent rebuttal to anything I've said, I'll just soldier on. In fact, I feel inspired to post on one more quote. (One thing at a time, right Chuzzlewit?)

Thanks again for the inspiration!

BOHICA, loser.
 
Look at him go! We've got him on the ropes!

I've NEVER seen Ransom respond this terrified and frantic before.
Everyone better read my original post that set him off spinning this web of lies.

Still waiting for you to address what I just said about quote 1, "Ransom to Satan".


Screen Shot 2020-07-27 at 6.56.46 PM.png
 
Spam deleted. - Ransom
 
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Spam deleted. - Ransom
 
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Here, let me provide you some help. I highly recommend you try arguing from this position before I demolish it:
http://www.westcotthort.com/quotes_scripture.html

(screenshot from the site):
Screen Shot 2020-07-27 at 7.34.56 PM.png
Boy, I'm guessing you think this settles it, huh? Just wait. Waiting for your response on quote 1 before we move on.
 
Here, let's move the post back to the front
Better yet, how about you gain some control over your sphincter and stop spamming the forum with duplicate posts?

BOHICA, spamming loser.
 
Are you hiccuping? You were never in the military so let me tell you: nobody uses this anymore.

It's the equivalent of going around saying "That's Tubular, dude!" in California.

A.K.A. you look like a poser.


Now. Still waiting for you to address this on quote 1 before we move on and I dismantle each and every other point you make:

Fixing your absolute disaster of an "exposition" on that first quote you claim was "quoted out of context":

That quote is found in the context of an internal struggle Hort had in understanding the substitutionary atonement from the perspective of judicial vs. moral justice, and whether or not the atonement additionally abolishes suffering for the saved individual after the fact. On this he said he couldn't make up his mind, showing the Biblical illiteracy of this doubter: He didn't even know if after someone came to Christ, they would still experience suffering or if the atonement should have abolished this for them as well.

Then he goes into further heresy by questioning the atonement: "Perhaps we may be too hasty in assuming an absolute necessity of absolutely proportional suffering." (He wasn't convinced that the atonement was absolutely proportionate since believers still experience suffering).

THEN he immediately considers that the ransom was paid to Satan, and that he can see NO OTHER POSSIBLE form in which this ransom is at all tenable, and that ANYTHING is better than a ransom paid to the Father.



Hey, if you're in the truth, this should be no sweat, right? What's to hide?
I'm comfortable taking all the time I need to address this step by step.
 
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One more, and it's not actually a quote, just a string of unsupported assertions made about Westcott and Hort before UGChuzzlewit went into incoherent mode and rode madly off in all directions. Of course, the accusation that Westcott and Hort WUZ 0CCuL71sT5!!!one!! is one of the most famous bits of slander in Riplinger's scandal rags, so it's worthy of discussion.

Westcott and Hort dabbled with the occult and communicating with spirits,

There is, in fact, no evidence that "Westcott and Hort" dabbled with the occult, with one exception: Hort writes to his wife in 1864 that at a dinner party, "We tried to turn tables, but the creatures wouldn't stir" (Hort, Life and Letters, vol. 2, 33).

As for the aforementioned seance, I imagine that in the mid-1800s, you probably wouldn't have found too many people of the upper classes of British society that hadn't attended one, even if they had no serious belief in Spiritualism. In the 1840s, a pair of sisters in New York claimed spirits were communicating with them through tapping noises heard in the house. Spiritualism became a craze, and soon it crossed over to England.

Perhaps this is what piqued Westcott's interest in Spiritualism and motivated him to join the Ghostlie Guild, but there is no evidence he ever so much as sat in on a table-turning. Of course, UGChuzzlewit, being a low-budget Gail the Ripper, can't help but try and present Westcott and Hort yet again as some sort of thinking-alike, homogenous blob.

Lie #15.

and had a club called the "Ghostly [sic] Guild", which included a man named Lightfoot,

The "Ghostlie Guild"...numbered amongst its members A. Barry, E. W. Benson, H. Bradshaw, the Hon. A. Gordon, F. J. A. Hort, H. Luard, and C. B. Scott.... (Westcott, Life and Letters, vol. 1, 117.)​

You would think that if such a prominent personality as J. B. Lightfoot had been a part of the Guild--especially considering that Westcott and their third partner-in-crime, E. W. Benson, were the co-founders of the group--Westcott's son might have mentioned his name. I know of no evidence that Lightfoot was a member. (Riplinger doesn't count.)

Lie #16.

who created a Lexicon to support their new Greek Text.

J. B. Lightfoot wrote many useful theological works, but a Greek lexicon was not among them.

Lie #17.

This club became the "Society for Psychical Research",

According to the Wikipedia article on the SPR, it was founded based on conversations between journalist Edmund Rogers and physicist William F. Barrett, in 1881. The founding committee also included Stainton Moses, Charles Massey, Edmund Gurney, Hensleigh Wedgwood and Frederic W. H. Myers.

If any of the notable personalities that founded the Ghostlie Guild (which included, supposedly, two future Bishops of Durham and one future Archbishop of Canterbury amongst their number) had moved on to the SPR, you would expect the Wikipedians to take notice, wouldn't you?

In reality, the only connection between the Ghostlie Guild and the Society for Psychical Research is that they were but two of many scholarly societies that cropped up in the 19th century to investigate, to varying degrees of rigour, claims of the supernatural and paranormal.

Lie #18.

who interviewed the founder of the Satanic religion of Theosophy, Helena P. Blavatsky (Sublime Elect Scotch Lady, Masonic Patent issued by John Yarker), and were favorably impressed with her.

Yeah, who cares.

Westcott himself, as his son points out, soon lost interest in the Guild, apparently "because he was seriously convinced that such investigations led to no good" (Ibid., 119). This would certainly appear to be the case. In 1893, a newspaper editor named William Thomas Stead, who had become interested in Spiritualism, founded a magazine named Borderland to report favourably on paranormal research. An article in the first issue, titled "The Response to the Appeal," compiled letters from various prelates and other public figures, containing their opinion about research into paranormal phenomena. One of the respondents was B. F. Westcott:

The Bishop of Durham, one of the few who seem to realise that there is a living world outside the Church walls, tells us quite frankly that the best thing to do with Borderland [Stead's word for the supernatural] is to leave it alone. Whether we agree or disagree with Bishop Westcott's letter, it gives no uncertain sound. He says:--

Many years ago I had occasion to investigate "spiritualistic" phenomena with some care, and I came to a clear conclusion, which I feel bound to express in answer to your circular. It appears to me that in this, as in all spiritual questions, Holy Scripture is our supreme guide. I observe, then, that while spiritual ministries are constantly recorded in the Bible, there is not the faintest encouragement to seek them. The case, indeed, is far otherwise. I cannot, therefore, but regard every voluntary approach to beings such as those who are supposed to hold communication with men through mediums as unlawful and perilous. I find in the fact of the Incarnation all that man (so far as I can see) requires for life and hope. ("The Response to the Appeal", Borderland 1, no. 1 (July 1893): 11.)​

Bishop Westcott ended his adult life basically the way he began it: desiring to point people to Jesus as sufficient for life and hope. The Riplingerites could learn from his example, but being so feverishly obsessed with the Blessed Version KJV, would rather smear a decent man. No one should listen to these grifters; rather, they should be refuted (2 Cor. 10:5) and silenced (Titus 1:11).
 
One final note for now: I've deleted all your duplicate spam. We heard you the first time, boy.

Your bad habit of repetitive posting isn't productive--it's a distraction intended to create clutter.

Keep control of your posting habits, or I'll put the muzzle on.

First and only warning.

That is final.
 
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