"treasure_lost"'s Pastor Fired!!

Ransom

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Same thing I always think when KJV nuts bring up Westcott and Hort.

I assume they're lying.
18 lies later...case closed.
 

UGC

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So? It's funny. So BOHICA
...Trust me, humor isn't your thing.

One more, and it's not actually a quote, just a string of unsupported assertions
Woah, woah, woah! What's this now?

This is "not actually a quote"?


"I confess I have no repugnance to the primitive doctrine of a ransom paid to Satan... I can see no other possible form in which the doctrine of ransom is at all tenable; anything is better than the doctrine of a Ransom paid to the father."

With this context you have yet to address?

That quote is found in the context of an internal struggle Hort had in understanding the substitutionary atonement from the perspective of judicial vs. moral justice, and whether or not the atonement additionally abolishes suffering for the saved individual after the fact. On this he said he couldn't make up his mind, showing the Biblical illiteracy of this doubter: He didn't even know if after someone came to Christ, they would still experience suffering or if the atonement should have abolished this for them as well.

Then he goes into further heresy by questioning the atonement: "Perhaps we may be too hasty in assuming an absolute necessity of absolutely proportional suffering." (He wasn't convinced that the atonement was absolutely proportionate since believers still experience suffering).

THEN he immediately considers that the ransom was paid to Satan, and that he can see NO OTHER POSSIBLE form in which this ransom is at all tenable, and that ANYTHING is better than a ransom paid to the Father.


I've deleted all your duplicate spam.
Just like you locked the other thread? This info terrifies you. Checkmate.
 

Ransom

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...Trust me
Too late, 18-times-a-liar.

This is "not actually a quote"?[/SIZE]

"I confess I have no repugnance to the primitive doctrine of a ransom paid to Satan... I can see no other possible form in which the doctrine of ransom is at all tenable; anything is better than the doctrine of a Ransom paid to the father."
Well, that's not the quote I was addressing at the time, was it, 19-times-a-liar?

[spam nuked, yet again]

Just like you locked the other thread?
Did I say I would lock the thread, 20-times-a-liar? Nope. I'll muzzle you, though, if you don't put a cork on your posting diarrhea.

This info terrifies you. Checkmate.
You have yet to demonstrate the mental capacity to terrify anyone over the age of two.
 

UGC

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Notice the desperation to create an imaginary number system to manufacture the feeble appearance that I'm actually lying when I haven't lied once yet.


Since he's taking a while, let's spice things up, shall we?

There is, in fact, no evidence that "Westcott and Hort" dabbled with the occult, with one exception: Hort writes to his wife in 1864 that at a dinner party, "We tried to turn tables, but the creatures wouldn't stir" (Hort, Life and Letters, vol. 2, 33).
That's not an exception, that's evidence. And strong evidence when you know the rest of the story:

Perhaps this is what piqued Westcott's interest in Spiritualism and motivated him to join the Ghostlie Guild, but there is no evidence he ever so much as sat in on a table-turning.

Lie #15.
You mean Truth #15, I guess you're numbering your OWN lies here?

So you quoted him saying he turned tables, then you immediately claimed "there's no evidence of that".
This is just like when you claimed Irenaeus "said the church would be suddenly caught up and then there would be great tribulation" but he "didn't say that".

This is how a professional liar works, folks. You have to pay attention. He literally contradicts himself in order to DOWNPLAY plain and obvious truths that stare you directly in the face.


Oops, what's this?

"Ghost Society [was] founded by no less a person than Edward White Benson, the future Bishop of Canterbury. As A.C. Benson writes in his father’s biography, the Archbishop was always more interested in psychic phenomena than he cared to admit. Two members of the Ghost Club became Bishops [Benson and Westcott] and one became a Professor of Divinity [Hort].(26)

Hort writes of his and Westcott’s work to set this apparition association in motion.

Westcott, Gorham, C.B. Scott, Benson, Bradshaw, Laurd ect. And I have started a society for the investigation of ghosts and all supernatural appearances and effects, being all disposed to believe that such things really exist.

In the very same letter Hort chaffs that the bible, extant in his day as the King James Version from the Greek Textus Receptus, was ‘Villianous’. (28) This letter, a foghorn sounded by Father Time to us today, testifies to the foreboding genesis of today’s community of translations like the NIV, NASB, NKJV, and NRSV. Westcott and Hort’s position in the current bloodline of the New Age movement is conceded by Hort’s son:

Hort seems to have been the moving spirit of. . .’the Bogie Club’ as scoffers called it, [it] aroused a certain amount of derision and even some alarm; it was apparently born too soon.(29)

Although Hort referred to evangelical Christians as “dangerous” and “perverted”, “unsound”, and “confused” he was rabidly ‘evangelistic’ about his ‘necromancy’ as the bible calls it. Writing to C.H Chambers, Hort proselytizes:

I sent you two ghostly papers; you can have more if you want them, but I find they go very fast and the 750 copies which we printed go by no means far enough. We are promised a large number of well-authenticated private stories, but they have not arrived yet. Our most active members are however absent from Cambridge; to wit Westcott at Harrow and Gordon at Wells. . .(32)

Westcott’s son writes, “Westcott took a leading part in their proceedings and their inquiry circular was originally drawn up by him. He also received a number of communications in response."
Compiled at Historicist.info: https://historicist.info/necromancers/nabv30gguild.htm


I imagine that in the mid-1800s, you probably wouldn't have found too many people of the upper classes of British society that hadn't attended one, even if they had no serious belief in Spiritualism.
Who's making up lies now?

This is an absolutely ridiculous notion to try and make joining something like "The Ghostlie Guild" out to be normal for everyone.

"You imagine", huh. Yeah, you imagine mentally insane things that do not correlate with reality.
 

Ransom

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Notice the desperation to create an imaginary number system
UGC thinks counting is "imaginary."

LOL!

Good night, loser.
 

UGC

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UGC falsely claims Westcott denies the deity of Christ.
You need to understand something about liars, people. They contradict themselves to cover their behinds.

I'd say 90% of Ransom's "claims" that I am "lying" are based on ignoring the plain context of the W/H quote in question and instead red herring everyone's attention away to ANOTHER quote, sometimes in an ENTIRELY DIFFERENT BOOK, where W/H may have actually been writing in favor of another stance (they flip flop and contradict themselves a lot to save face: all liars do).

Here's the point, folks: it doesn't change the first quote at all, those statements stand independent of whatever the men said elsewhere because what they said elsewhere was not found in the same passage nor its context, meaning they flip-flopped to save their own butts (all you have to do is read and believe what they say IN CONTEXT of when and what they were talking about), they obviously couldn't be 100% heretical all the time or no one would have bought their occult-influenced liberal confusion.

Hort is strongly pro-Europe
This has absolutely nothing to do with the fact that he hated Democracy. He was still a Socialist and anti-American (I could CARE LESS WHY, AND WHETHER OR NOT THIS WAS BECAUSE HE "LIKED EUROPE" BETTER, THE POINT REMAINS. FACTS.), yet he tried to come in and change the Bible we used in America after winning freedom from England with his occult "Ghostlie Guild" wisdom and background.

I'm assuming this was one of the many lies you imaginarily "counted" about me lying. There goes another one.
 

UGC

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According to the Wikipedia article on the SPR, it was founded based on conversations between journalist Edmund Rogers and physicist William F. Barrett, in 1881. The founding committee also included Stainton Moses, Charles Massey, Edmund Gurney, Hensleigh Wedgwood and Frederic W. H. Myers.

If any of the notable personalities that founded the Ghostlie Guild (which included, supposedly, two future Bishops of Durham and one future Archbishop of Canterbury amongst their number) had moved on to the SPR, you would expect the Wikipedians to take notice, wouldn't you?

In reality, the only connection between the Ghostlie Guild and the Society for Psychical Research is that they were but two of many scholarly societies
that cropped up in the 19th century to investigate, to varying degrees of rigour, claims of the supernatural and paranormal.
Wikipedia? Are you living under a rock? That is controlled information, much like the MSM, and should always be cross-referenced with others before you use it.


Spin the hamster wheel and make it go away, Ransom!

"Historians researching this period reveal that other ‘Ghostly Guild’ members became its ‘front men’. Benson and Westcott were not above stalking impressionable students to recruit members. Henry Sidgwick, a student of Westcott’s and a cousin of Benson’s “joined the Ghost Society before he took his degree in 1859; Westcott was then secretary [of the Ghostly Guild] and on his leaving Cambridge, Sidgwick appears to have succeeded him.” 41 The Founders of Psychical Research reports how the Ghostly Guild spurred Sidgwick’s “interest in the phenomena of Spiritualism” and incited his active involvement with them. 42 Sidgwick was among a number whose disillusionment with Christianity was spawned during Westcott’s tenure at Trinity College in Cambridge. Author of The Fabians, a history of communism and socialism in England, writes:

The Founders of Psychical Research notes the reaction of Orthodox Christian’s to Westcott’s ‘crowd.’

Christianity is about to die of self-inflicted wounds…It seemed to conservative Christians quite appalling that at a time when the impregnable rock of Holy Scripture was being undermined by Darwin and his allies, a group of those whose sacred duty should have been to shore it up again had conspired to hammer their wedge not under it, but into it. The reactions of the orthodox disgusted Sidgwick and those of his friends…He addressed a letter to The Times on the subject and was rather surprised that on the 20th February 1861 it was published. [It said in part] Mr. Westcott expresses it, they love their early faith, but they love the truth more.’ 45"

...the Ghostly Guild and its transformation through time into the Society for Psychical Research. The Encyclopedia of Occultism and Parapsychology lists ‘the Ghostly Club’ as one in which “members relate personal experiences concerned with ghosts.” The snake uncoiled as the S.P.R. embraced “haunted houses…the divining rod …automatic handwriting and trance speaking…mediumship and communication with the dead.” 46 Webb elaborates:

It was a combination of those groups already working independently…of these the most important was that centered around Henry Sidgwick, Fredrick Myers, and Edmond Gurney, all Fellows of Trinity College Cambridge and deriving its inspiration from the Cambridge University Ghost Society founded by… Benson,[Westcott and Hort]…The S.P.R was a peculiar hybrid of Spiritualistic cult and dedicated rationalism

Rosemary’s baby, the S.P.R., concurs in its official history, the S.P.R.: An Outline of Its History, by W.H. Salter. It refers to the transmutation of “Westcott, Hort, Lightfoot and Benson’s” “Ghostly Guild” into the S.P.R., calling the Ghostly Guild “the parent society,” “a society from which our own can claim direct descent” and “the forerunner of so unorthodox a subject as ours.” They list their interests as “telepathy, pure clairvoyance, communication from ‘some spirit’ in or out of the body…the nature and extend of any influence which may be exerted by one mind upon another…disturbances in houses reputed to be haunted…physical phenomena commonly called spiritualistic.” 48

The Ghostly Guild gave birth to the S.P.R. which the author of Crash Course on the New Age cites in the lineage of the New Age movement and current channeling craze."
 

UGC

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How embarrassed Ransom must be right now.

And I haven't even gotten started yet exposing his false accusations yet.

I think we should change the name of this thread to "Exposing Ransom the disinfo agent". Where's your imaginary "lie counter" now?
At zero. Where it belongs. Unless you count all of those as your own lies. In which case the number stands.
 

illinoisguy

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I don't understand why Ugg has a problem with Westcott and Hort dabbling in the occult. He has admitted that his god Ruckman was demon-possessed, which is a whole lot worse than anything of that type that he has alleged against Westcott and Hort. So what's the big deal?
 

tmjbog

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UGC thinks counting is "imaginary."

LOL!

Good night, loser.
Are we to the point yet where we begin discussing King James homo tendencies, the fact that Erasmus was a Romanist, and the character flaws of some of KJV translators? If so it must be time for UGC to do his 180 and declare how amazing that God could work through such repugnant men.
 

tmjbog

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I don't understand why Ugg has a problem with Westcott and Hort dabbling in the occult. He has admitted that his god Ruckman was demon-possessed, which is a whole lot worse than anything of that type that he has alleged against Westcott and Hort. So what's the big deal?
The strongest advocates for the KJV are a man who shakes the demons out nightly and woman that specializes in interior design.
 

treasure_unseen

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Are we to the point yet where we begin discussing King James homo tendencies, the fact that Erasmus was a Romanist, and the character flaws of some of KJV translators? If so it must be time for UGC to do his 180 and declare how amazing that God could work through such repugnant men.
King James was a drunk and a murderer. He also claimed to be the HEAD of the Church of God on this earth. He believed he had a Divine Right to dictate what "HIS" benefactors could believe. English "Royalty" has murdered and pillaged its people for hundreds of year...

The KJVOist must be a loyal servant to English "Royality"....

"Homo" should rank somewhere but they have a hard time dealing with these facts. I've never seen a KJVOist that would. They just pretend they don't know this to promote their lie.
 
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illinoisguy

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KJVO advocate Gail Riplinger has been accused of having occult leanings. In theory, this could mean that we need to avoid the KJV, if we follow Ugg's logic.


See the source image
 

illinoisguy

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This book documents the homosexuality of King James I, who "authorized" the KJV. Of course, this does not necessarily reflect poorly on the KJV, but according to Ugg's logic, it does.


  • Image result for James I The fool as King



    James I : The Fool as King: Otto Scott: Amazon.com: Books

    James I: The Fool as King This is the unvarnished story of the incompetent and depraved King James who left his name on an Excellent Bible he ordered translated solely because the current Bible (Geneva) had at most, three notes which called the King a subject of God, not the other way around. James was also obviously a homosexual who hated ...




 

Twisted

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KJVO advocate Gail Riplinger has been accused of having occult leanings. In theory, this could mean that we need to avoid the KJV, if we follow Ugg's logic.


See the source image
Phil is playing both sides of the street...

 

Ransom

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I don't understand why Ugg has a problem with Westcott and Hort dabbling in the occult. He has admitted that his god Ruckman was demon-possessed, which is a whole lot worse than anything of that type that he has alleged against Westcott and Hort. So what's the big deal?
The Blessed Virgin Gail Riplinger cannot be made to look ridiculous.
 

Ransom

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Wikipedia? Are you living under a rock? That is controlled information
Good point. Since your posts are controlled information, they are thereby discredited. Thanks for playing.

It's nothing but anonymous quotations anyway. Anonymous authority == lies.

#21, to be specific.
 

tmjbog

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The Blessed Virgin Gail Riplinger cannot be made to look ridiculous.
I don't know her books kind of do that all by themselves without anyone having to help. Remember the NIV is evil because....the Titanic.
 

treasure_unseen

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This book documents the homosexuality of King James I, who "authorized" the KJV. Of course, this does not necessarily reflect poorly on the KJV, but according to Ugg's logic, it does.


  • Image result for James I The fool as King



    James I : The Fool as King: Otto Scott: Amazon.com: Books

    James I: The Fool as King This is the unvarnished story of the incompetent and depraved King James who left his name on an Excellent Bible he ordered translated solely because the current Bible (Geneva) had at most, three notes which called the King a subject of God, not the other way around. James was also obviously a homosexual who hated ...

What King James did with the KJV largely discredits it. He forced the KJV on English people and rejected the Word of God given to us through the Geneva Bible. If King James wouldn't have forced the KJV on England and its subjects, you never have even heard of it again. It would have died a quick death. The Geneva would have been updated and enjoyed the success the KJV had.

After all. The KJV largely copied the style of the Geneva Bible due to its tremendous success. The Geneva Bible was a huge success among the English people of the time. King James didn't want commentary in the KJV. He wanted to control the people of England. He couldn't suppress their desire for commentary, so he allowed commentary but controlled what was said and what was published. There is no copy that came directly from the translation committees. The KJV's finally copy came through the archbishop that was controlled by King James. Thusly, the Geneva translation narrative was changed in key places to drive king James's theology. A great example of this is found in how Hebrew 13 contains the word "rule" three times when it shouldn't. Injecting the theology of King James and his bias into the narrative. A narrative that has be trumpeted and copied by KJVOist for hundreds of years. There is no man that rules another. If it were not for the KJV you would have never heard such nonsense.
 
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treasure_unseen

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The Blessed Virgin Gail Riplinger cannot be made to look ridiculous.
Waite made her look rather ridiculous. His only mistake being to prefer the TR to the KJV. Which doomed him with the average KJVOist.
 
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