Biden’s America

  • Thread starter Thread starter Dr. Huk-N-Duck
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Huk said:
I didn’t realize there were openly transgender people back in the 70s, although I wasn’t even alive in the 70s.
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Sex reassignment surgery was possible back in the 1950s, and came to light with the much-publicized case of Christine Jorgensen, who had the surgery in 1952 and subsequently became a celebrity. Openly transgender people ("transsexuals" was the terminology of the day) were rare but not unheard of. TV sitcoms made jokes about them.

By the 1990s transgenderism was still rare but a bit more mainstream, probably riding the coattails of the successful gay-rights movement. It was around 1994 that I was first told it was impolite to refer to a transgender woman as "he" or to "deadname" one (i.e. use their former name).

Of course, up until about 10 minutes ago, being transgender took effort. You basically had to be diagnosed with sexual dysphoria and commit to having cosmetic surgery. These days, all a transgender "woman" has to do is say "Welp, I'm a chick now," and you're all but bound by law to pretend to believe him.
 
Ransom said:
Of course, up until about 10 minutes ago, being transgender took effort. You basically had to be diagnosed with sexual dysphoria and commit to having cosmetic surgery.
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But isn’t that the crux of the matter? Today, it’s trendy to be trans or whatever. It’s not thought of as a psychological disorder or even a moral problem. The people now considered to be immoral and not psychologically fit are the people who don’t espouse their affirmation in it.
 
AverageJoe said:
Attitudes have been changing towards all of the sexual misdeeds of people. Back in the 1960s, a pedophile in our neighborhood was nearly killed by neighbors just for saying "good morning" to a child that passed by the house he was renting. Had the owners known that he was a deviant, he would never have been allowed to rent that house, especially so close to a church and school. During the 70s I only knew of one transgender person, and I worked with him...he was born a man, but claimed he was a woman and worked as a waitress...UGH! It was very difficult to work around this idiocy, and many were toeing the line, so to say. I was not one to do that. He wanted to be called "Tiffany" though his name was Timothy. I called him Tim. Gay marriage wasn't a thing known to me, though civil unions were, and it wasn't really known in our community until the late 70s and early 1980s. I have three lesbian cousins, one is married to a woman. The other two have their "ladies", but, neither of them plans on marrying.
Today's youth are all for the LGBTQ+ agenda. My niece and her husband totally cut my wife and me off because we wouldn't echo their drivel about these people, calling us hateful, bigoted, racist, etc....all the terms the Democrats try to give people who stand against such idiocy.
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As a guy in your 60s, do these issues bother you less today than when you were younger, or would you say more so?
 
Huk said:
I

I didn’t realize there were openly transgender people back in the 70s, although I wasn’t even alive in the 70s. Gay marriage was something I wasn’t aware of as a kid, but I do remember hearing about civil unions on the news in the early 90s, though it wasn’t law anywhere I ever lived.
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In the 70s they were called transvestites. One was featured on an episode of All In the Family. If you aren't familiar with that show, do a search on it. I was adolescent/early teens at the time. Transvestites were mostly on the fringes of society and were usually comic fodder by the likes of Johnny Carson and others; they were seldom taken seriously.
 
abcaines said:
In the 70s they were called transvestites. One was featured on an episode of All In the Family. If you aren't familiar with that show, do a search on it. I was adolescent/early teens at the time. Transvestites were mostly on the fringes of society and were usually comic fodder by the likes of Johnny Carson and others; they were seldom taken seriously.
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“Patience is a virgin.”—Archie Bunker
 
abcaines said:
In the 70s they were called transvestites. One was featured on an episode of All In the Family. If you aren't familiar with that show, do a search on it. I was adolescent/early teens at the time. Transvestites were mostly on the fringes of society and were usually comic fodder by the likes of Johnny Carson and others; they were seldom taken seriously.
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I wasn’t old enough to watch that show live (actually I wasn’t born), but I did watch reruns of it in the 80s and 90s. I still occasionally watch them now. Ironically, maybe I’m overthinking things, but I find All in the Family to be one of the deepest philosophical sitcoms ever made. In many ways, Archie reminded me of a New York version of my grandfather (a WW2 vet) who was caught between generational lines of thinking, and exhibited a lot of prejudice, but had a huge heart.
 
Huk said:
I wasn’t old enough to watch that show live (actually I wasn’t born), but I did watch reruns of it in the 80s and 90s. I still occasionally watch them now. Ironically, maybe I’m overthinking things, but I find All in the Family to be one of the deepest philosophical sitcoms ever made. In many ways, Archie reminded me of a New York version of my grandfather (a WW2 vet) who was caught between generational lines of thinking, and exhibited a lot of prejudice, but had a huge heart.
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There was definitely that element to the show. It was a Norman Lear production. Norman Lear was famous for producing programs which pushed the boundaries of subject matter. He is one of the pioneers of moving society away from the Ward and June Cleaver TV family and instilling a different kind of hero in society's mind. Also, look at one of the co-stars of the series: Rob Reiner. I don't think his inclusion in that show was merely happenstance.
 
ALAYMAN said:
“Patience is a virgin.”—Archie Bunker
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That one got past me. I had to look it up. But I quickly realized what that was about... it's along the lines of him referring to "[our] American heresy."
 
abcaines said:
There was definitely that element to the show. It was a Norman Lear production. Norman Lear was famous for producing programs which pushed the boundaries of subject matter. He is one of the pioneers of moving society away from the Ward and June Cleaver TV family and instilling a different kind of hero in society's mind. Also, look at one of the co-stars of the series: Rob Reiner. I don't think his inclusion in that show was merely happenstance.
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Not only was Meathead not an accident, but O’Connor was also an admitted liberal in real life. They were collectively doing exactly what you said, moving the cultural needle to the left, just as Murphy Brown did in the subsequent generation.
 
Huk said:
As a guy in your 60s, do these issues bother you less today than when you were younger, or would you say more so?
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I have to say I was NEVER overly bothered by the issues mentioned. With the LGBTQ+ positions, I had a cousin who was a lesbian, and though not known to most at the time, I could understand it to a degree. She had an older brother, her father was a professor at ISU in Terre Haute, and she was treated like a boy because her parents were very into the sports scene, especially at ISU. She was NEVER really treated like a girl. I knew when we were both 13 that she didn't like boys and preferred girls. Though I knew it was wrong, and I did tell her I didn't approve because of what the scriptures taught (and her family was heavily involved in their Baptist church), I didn't stop loving her, or accepting her as my cousin.
While in Jr. high, we were openly told in several classes that now would be the time to experiment with different sexual partners, male and female. This is one thing that got many of us pulled from the public schools and put into Christian schools. I was strong enough to know what was right and wrong, so, again, I never became distressed over it.
These days, with so many claiming to be these things, yet not really being sure of what they are, I'm not distressed, but am disappointed in the reasoning skills of todays youth, and the lack of love and respect for the youth of today by the adults in not addressing these things.
 
AverageJoe said:
I have to say I was NEVER overly bothered by the issues mentioned. With the LGBTQ+ positions, I had a cousin who was a lesbian, and though not known to most at the time, I could understand it to a degree. She had an older brother, her father was a professor at ISU in Terre Haute, and she was treated like a boy because her parents were very into the sports scene, especially at ISU. She was NEVER really treated like a girl. I knew when we were both 13 that she didn't like boys and preferred girls. Though I knew it was wrong, and I did tell her I didn't approve because of what the scriptures taught (and her family was heavily involved in their Baptist church), I didn't stop loving her, or accepting her as my cousin.
While in Jr. high, we were openly told in several classes that now would be the time to experiment with different sexual partners, male and female. This is one thing that got many of us pulled from the public schools and put into Christian schools. I was strong enough to know what was right and wrong, so, again, I never became distressed over it.
These days, with so many claiming to be these things, yet not really being sure of what they are, I'm not distressed, but am disappointed in the reasoning skills of todays youth, and the lack of love and respect for the youth of today by the adults in not addressing these things.
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I can understand what you are saying. We had family friends growing up from our church, and of the three boys, one turned out gay. The other two were married with kids, military service, etc. However, we always knew the one boy was “different” even before he hit puberty. There was never really any question how he was going to turn out. Odd stuff.
 
Huk said:
I can understand what you are saying. We had family friends growing up from our church, and of the three boys, one turned out gay. The other two were married with kids, military service, etc. However, we always knew the one boy was “different” even before he hit puberty. There was never really any question how he was going to turn out. Odd stuff.
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There weren’t any dudes that were out publicly when I was in school, but there were a few that you suspected, and that came to be true and known publicly in their adulthood. There were, however, a couple of lesbians who were pretty public about their displays. They were usually into sports like softball, basketball, etc. i’m sure they took a little bit of crap, but honestly, I don’t remember anything significant anymore than any other typical teenage drama and cliquish behavior that results in conflict among highschoolers. But I will admit that the culture and attitude now is definitely much more permissive and expectant of such flamboyant and deviant experimentation. Under Clinton it was don’t ask don’t tell, but now there’s been a complete inversion, and you are seen as a three headed monster if you don’t celebrate such perversity.
 
ALAYMAN said:
Not only was Meathead not an accident, but O’Connor was also an admitted liberal in real life. They were collectively doing exactly what you said, moving the cultural needle to the left, just as Murphy Brown did in the subsequent generation.
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Which kind of backfired on Lear. He had intended Archie to be an unlikeable bigot (and presumably for Meathead to be the real moral centre of the program). But he made the character too three-dimensional. The audience wound up identifying with Archie.

(Meanwhile, Rob Reiner is still a meathead.)
 
Ransom said:
Which kind of backfired on Lear. He had intended Archie to be an unlikeable bigot (and presumably for Meathead to be the real moral centre of the program). But he made the character too three-dimensional. The audience wound up identifying with Archie.

(Meanwhile, Rob Reiner is still a meathead.)
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I think one could argue that Edith was the actual moral center of the show.
 
Huk said:
I think one could argue that Edith was the actual moral center of the show.
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No argument here.

I've seen Jean Stapleton in other roles and she was HILARIOUS! She was a fine actress and comedienne.
 
Huk said:
I think one could argue that Edith was the actual moral center of the show.
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As the show developed, probably. Archie and Meathead evolved into two sides of the same coin: one on the left, the other on the right, both sincere but occasionally blinded by their own ideals.
 
ALAYMAN said:
There weren’t any dudes that were out publicly when I was in school, but there were a few that you suspected, and that came to be true and known publicly in their adulthood. There were, however, a couple of lesbians who were pretty public about their displays. They were usually into sports like softball, basketball, etc. i’m sure they took a little bit of crap, but honestly, I don’t remember anything significant anymore than any other typical teenage drama and cliquish behavior that results in conflict among highschoolers. But I will admit that the culture and attitude now is definitely much more permissive and expectant of such flamboyant and deviant experimentation. Under Clinton it was don’t ask don’t tell, but now there’s been a complete inversion, and you are seen as a three headed monster if you don’t celebrate such perversity.
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i agree that sexual perversity should never be normalized - much less celebrated.... .and both the public schools who do it, and the churches trying to follow them, will have to answer to God for it one day..... but just out of curiosity, - what does being into softball... basketball... or any other physicially demanding sport have to do with a girl being lesbian?... ..what if they had been into rugby or wrestling?....... ... and if a boy is into soccer or tennis... or maybe doesn;t have the bone structure or killer instinct considered ideal for football - does that mean we should expect him to come out as gay?..... ..

many years ago i saw a long time.. and once respected ..forum member here - who had turned apostate... suggest that very thing... . in fact he insisted it was true - that somehow physical ability, body build.. and certain personal interests in a young person, that have absolutely nothing to do with committing a sin against God,... could be observed..assessed ..and used to predict sexually deviant behavior in the future as an adult ...

how can we hope to save children from this kind of perversity if we continue shoving them into pidgeon holes according to cultural biases - the same way the world does?....
 
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aleshanee said:
i agree that sexual perversity should never be normalized - much less celebrated.... .and both the public schools who do it, and the churches trying to follow them, will have to answer to God for it one day..... but just out of curiosity, - what does being into softball... basketball... or any other physicially demanding sport have to do with a girl being lesbian?... ..what if they had been into rugby or wrestling?....... ... and if a boy is into soccer or tennis... or maybe doesn;t have the bone structure or killer instinct considered ideal for football - does that mean we should expect him to come out as gay?..... ..

many years ago i saw a long time.. and once respected ..forum member here - who had turned apostate... suggest that very thing... . in fact he insisted it was true - that somehow physical ability, body build.. and certain personal interests in a young person, that have absolutely nothing to do with committing a sin against God,... could be observed..assessed ..and used to predict sexually deviant behavior in the future as an adult ...

how can we hope to save children from this kind of perversity if we continue shoving them into pidgeon holes according to cultural biases - the same way the world does?....
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Aleshanee - I’m not answering for Altayman, but just my own opinion. I think there’s a huge correlation between lesbians and certain sports. To deny this would be me being dishonest to myself. Candace Wiggins, an actual WNBA player, suggested the percentage was as high as 98% in the league, and she had endured bullying for not being a lesbian. https://nypost.com/2017/02/21/retired-wnba-star-i-was-tormented-for-not-being-gay/amp/.

I believe in softball, the percentage would be somewhat similar, and I found a few articles on that, but I won’t post those because they seem less well known publications. However, I will tell you that one of my best friends has been a high school softball coach for nearly thirty years (he’s about ten years older than me), and he’s told me that normally he might have only about two players on a team that aren’t leaning in the lesbian direction, or who don’t come out a few years later that way, perhaps in college or young adulthood.

In tennis, a few years ago a top-100 world tennis player said he knew of no male gay players, but there were so many female players he wouldn’t even let his daughter play tennis. https://www.outsports.com/platform/amp/2015/7/10/8931545/sergiy-stakhovsky-gay-tennis-lesbians

In golf, I’ll let you do your own research, but as someone who has attended actual LPGA tournaments in person as a spectator, I can assure you that the lesbian golf rumors aren’t just hyperbole.

All that being said, it doesn’t mean in many of these sports that there aren’t exceptions, because obviously there are some straight women involved in these sports, but it seems so rare that when it exists, it’s almost an anomaly.
 
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