We're here, we're queer and we're coming for your children'

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Ekklesian,

When I was a child, there was a ball field up the street. And all of the little boys would congregate there to play ball. They all loved ball. Some were excellent players and others were mediocre but they all loved the sport. And then, there was a little red headed kid with bifocals. He'd come onto the field and want to play too. He couldn't hit the ball worth a flip, he was awkward and totally non athletic. He didn't even understand all of the rules. But those boys let him play anyway. They understood that his lack of athletic skill had nothing to do with theirs. They understood that his missing the ball as it came over the plate had nothing to do with their own enjoyment and so, they let him play too. His lack of skill, his lack of athletic grace didn't cause them to decide not to play a sport they loved.

Won't you let me be the red headed step child of this forum? There's not a thing I can say that will sway these men here (and women). Most of these people have known me or of me since at least 2006. If I was here to cause them to lose their faith, I have been a dismal failure. No, it's just that I have an interest in things concerning God even if I don't believe what they do about Him. Aside from theology, I tend to lean very conservatively and so I sometimes try to post in the areas unrelated to theology because I find that most people here tend to lean that way too. What is my purpose engaging the people here, you ask. It's just to have a little fellowship with those that are willing. As far as the gay issue, I try not to bring it up. But someone else started this thread and I tend to feel very strongly about the little children and so I did say that I was gay and embarrassed about how the gay community is acting. Anyway, this is my answer as to why I am here. I will post answers to your others concerns separately.

Gringo
Sounds to me like those kids were quite kind to that red-headed kid with bi-focals! This is usually not the case! Athletically "Gifted" kids were usually quite brutal towards those who were athletically challenged! I am not athletic, been there, done that! I absolutely HATED gym during my Jr High and High School days!

I do hope we are as equally gracious here on the FFF! I have been very careful not bringing up your orientation which you had shared with me in private. I believe we need to be truthful while acting with courtesy, respect, and kindness towards those who are without. I know this is not always the case with the Church but hopefully this is our testimony here on the FFF! Your presence here gives us opportunity to put this into practice and I'm thankful for that.
 
You're OK. You're honest about who you are, but on the fence a bit about whether the G's, B's, and the L's are on good standing with God. Thankfully, that's not my job to decide so I presume that God's grace can cover that.

The trans and the dragsters are the ones who chap my hide. The issue that caused me to leave Methodism was our conference accepting a drag queen as a ministerial candidate. Said dragster received national notoriety as a result and received invitations to preach all over in his alter ego "Ms. Penny Cost". (Google that some time; how God doesn't hit him with a lightning bolt for some of the things on his website is proof of grace.) The thought that this goof could one day be my pastor was the point at which I said, "Nope." I didn't think that stuff was funny when Flip Wilson did it in the 70s.

I ended up in a non-denom Baptistic church. Ironically, their minister of family life is a young lady who formerly dated my nephew...who came out as gay a bit after the breakup! The nephew, that is. She is married to a young man whose father was a former pastor of mine.
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Not at all. I understand full well that Paul felt that I don't stand a chance for the Kingdom of God. But considering that I don't believe in life after death, I'm not worried about it.
As I said in another post, there's no point in denying what writers of the Bible taught. I'm not on the fence at all.
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There were a few others who came across as being fairly decent in their demeanor. If I am recalling correctly, the only one who was somewhat on the antagonistic side was Route 70 but even then you could interact with him. Andrew was overly cautious IMO and relegated them to the "Basement" which I thought was a shame and a missed opportunity! Gringo has chosen to stick around and I for one am glad he is here!
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But y'all would come down there and still have some good conversations with us. Does Route 70 come here? I think he got mad at me when he found out I was for Trump. He hates Trump. But you have to admit, he kept the basement "lively".
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I think that Christians can get unruly at times especially if we are just interacting among ourselves. Seminary "Bar Fights" can be especially bloody and vicious. When we are reminded that there are those on the "Outside looking in," it should give us pause regarding our conduct! This is my "Coram Deo" thought anyway.
There is a reason why I don't tell my non-christian friends about the FFF.
 
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But y'all would come down there and still have some good conversations with us. Does Route 70 come here? I think he got mad at me when he found out I was for Trump. He hates Trump. But you have to admit, he kept the basement "lively".
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He showed up about a year ago and got banned quickly because he couldn’t abide by the rules. Surprising, right?😁
 
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Not at all. I understand full well that Paul felt that I don't stand a chance for the Kingdom of God.
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What do you mean by the statement saying you don’t stand a chance?
 
Sounds to me like those kids were quite kind to that red-headed kid with bi-focals! This is usually not the case! Athletically "Gifted" kids were usually quite brutal towards those who were athletically challenged!

This is my overwhelming experience as well. Starting in middle school, at the latest, marginally athletic kids could tread water in sporting cultures but the talentless would not even be given a chance to enter the pool, whether that venue was in organized sports or merely the neighborhood. There may have been exceptions, like on the travel ball team that wanted to make sure that they had enough on their roster to guarantee that when summer events caused some of the “real”kids to not be available for a game that the “redheaded” kid would fill the last spot so that the team would have enough members to play according to minimum roster demands. But even then, that last “redheaded” kid would most likely be a marginal player, not a talentless one.
 
Remember that just because you don’t believe in life after death doesn’t mean there’s not life after death.
I'd much rather believe in life after death and be wrong than the other way around.

That said, I do believe and have always done so. In my testimony I relate how there were always things I've understood from my earliest memories.
 
There were a few others who came across as being fairly decent in their demeanor. If I am recalling correctly, the only one who was somewhat on the antagonistic side was Route 70 but even then you could interact with him. Andrew was overly cautious IMO and relegated them to the "Basement" which I thought was a shame and a missed opportunity! Gringo has chosen to stick around and I for one am glad he is here!
The dynamics were a bit different back then. I don’t blame Andrew, given the context at the time, where there was a whole bunch of new believers, and easily persuaded folks in the forum. And those atheists by and large, were trying to persuade malleable people into disbelief. For that reason, and due to the fact that they were intentionally trying to be subversive to the existence of the forum, I think that sort of moderation was necessary.

R70 intentionally pushed the boundaries and did so for his own kicks. I didn’t really care for his style, but I did enjoy some of our conversations. I occasionally read from his blog (about animals and southern rural life)where he was much less abrasive and enjoyed his personality and writing style.
 
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I used to agree with this sentiment, and even used to espouse it, but I’ve come to realize that a person can’t fake belief.
That is a sentiment of mine but there's a reason I included the paragraph and link that you aren't citing.
 
Those are questions that will provoke no answer.
Oops! I did get an answer.

Probably meant to get in his face.
How am I "in his face?" My questions are genuine. And guess what...he and I are engaging in dialogue. 👍

Does that chap your hide somewhat?

I do not approve of his lifestyle, or his beliefs, but I do approve of allowing him here to interact. He has not been here under false pretenses, as far as I know.
Apparently your approval or my approval is irrelevant. That's fine. I am the personification of apathy in that regard. Not that it matters.
 
That is a sentiment of mine but there's a reason I included the paragraph and link that you aren't citing.

By the way, I also agree that pascals wager is a legitimate philosophical expression of ”hedging your bets”, so don’t take my posted link as a denial of all of your point. I just personally think as far as apologetics go, that is a fairly weak argument to present the gospel to an unbeliever (not that you were even advocating that).

All of that said, how are you equating your testimony to pascals wager?
 
All of that said, how are you equating your testimony to pascals wager?
I'm not equating my testimony with Pascal's Wager. I cited my testimony in contrast to it. I'm very aware of the weakness of such an apologetic.
 
"In addition, sexuality is largely conditioned. Despite the same sex attraction that many may feel sometimes, and if it weren't a thing common to man I don't think there would have been a law given concerning it, that doesn't bar someone from having a fulfilling sexual relationship with someone of the opposite sex any more than a 'heterosexual' man's attraction to the 25 year old hottie that moved in next door mean that his wife of thirty years suddenly won't do."

Could you word the above a little differently. I'm not understanding what you are saying. I think I understand but I'm not sure.

I think you're saying that everyone has the capability of same sex atrraction, otherwise, there wouldn't have been a need for Moses to warn against it but that, that doesn't mean one can't have a fullfilling relationship with the opposite sex. Is that right?
My statement is meant to be read in light of the information in the article I cited, and I would word your paraphrase a bit differently, but essentially you're correct.

Everyone at some point, especially when children, may experience same sex attraction, but how it goes from there is the nurturing one receives and the things to which he is exposed.

But no one can really be "identified" by his "orientation," and orientation itself is a construct.

From the article:

Of course, given our immersion in a culture for which these categories seem as connatural as the English language, uprooting them from our vocabulary and worldview will not be anything like a simple task. So why bother? As long as we do not succumb to sinful acts, why does it matter if people—even we Christians—continue to identify as homosexuals or heterosexuals?
First of all, within orientation essentialism, the distinction between heterosexuality and homosexuality is a construct that is dishonest about its identity as a construct. These classifications masquerade as natural categories, applicable to all people in all times and places according to the typical objects of their sexual desires (albeit with perhaps a few more options on offer for the more politically correct categorizers). Claiming to be not simply an accidental nineteenth-century invention but a timeless truth about human sexual nature, this framework puts on airs, deceiving those who adopt its labels into believing that such distinctions are worth far more than they really are.
A second reason to doubt whether this schema is one that we Christians should readily use is that its introduction into our sexual discourse has not noticeably increased the virtues—intellectual or moral—of those who employ its concepts. On the contrary, it has bred both intellectual obscurity and moral disarray.
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There is a third reason this categorization should be disposed of, this one theological: It is at odds with the freedom for which Christ set us free. My future prior in religious life, Fr. Hugh Barbour of the Norbertine Fathers, has expanded on this idea in an essay in Chronicles Magazine , entitled “Do Homosexuals Exist? Or, Where Do We Go from Here?” As Fr. Prior argues, “Traditional moral theology evaluated acts, and did not generalize so unsatisfyingly about the tendencies that lead to these acts. That was left to the casuistry of occasions of sin, and to spiritual direction. If the sin is theft, then is the standard of evaluation kleptomania? If drunkenness, alcoholism? If sloth, clinical depression?” Even orthodox Christians, he writes,

have given in to the custom of treating sexual inclinations as identities. Pastorally, we are meant to preach the freedom whereby Christ has made us free. In treating the sin of sodomy as a prima facie proof of an identity, are we not, in the guise of compassion and sensitivity, helping bind the sinner to his sinful inclination, and so laying on him a burden that is too great to bear without perhaps moving a finger to lift it?
The article goes into the dangers of using the 'heterosexual' identity as well. For a simplistic summary, it tends toward a destructive self-righteousness, and a false assurance of one's standing with God simply for the fact that one likes the opposite sex. Hence the title "Agaist Heterosexuality"


"So you just chose to hobnob with a bunch of fundamentalists who pretty much think you're bound for hell unless you repent?
C'mon, Gringo.
I don't think you're being necessarily dishonest, but I can't help thinking there's more to it."


Could you expound? What is it that you think I'm up to?
I don't know if you're "up" to anything or not. You may feel a need to maintain ties to your Christian heritage. You may know someone here outside of the forum. You may be on a kind of mission to say, "Hey, we gay people aren't anything to be afraid of."

Or you may be searching for something.

If I thought I knew, I wouldn't have asked.
 
He likes to have sex with men.
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Do you feel that this person also has the capability of being drawn to the opposite sex but that he just prefers his own?
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