'America First' Means 'After Israel'

Ekklesian

Well-known member
Doctor
Elect
Joined
May 17, 2021
Messages
4,952
Reaction score
1,098
Points
113
Location
Western Hemisphere
I suspected this could be a possibility with Paula White nearby.

Carlson, an ardent Trump ally, fumed at Israel’s preemptive strike on Iran last week, dubbing the US “complicit in the act of war” and arguing that, “politicians purporting to be America First can’t now credibly turn around and say they had nothing to do with it.”
...
“Well, considering that I’m the one that developed ‘America First,’ and considering that the term wasn’t used until I came along, I think I’m the one that decides that,” Trump told The Atlantic in response.
...
“While the American military may not have physically perpetrated the assault, years of funding and sending weapons to Israel, which Donald Trump just bragged about on Truth Social, undeniably place the U.S. at the center of last night’s events,” the former Fox News host wrote in a newsletter following the strikes.
 
I suspected this could be a possibility with Paula White nearby.

Carlson, an ardent Trump ally, fumed at Israel’s preemptive strike on Iran last week, dubbing the US “complicit in the act of war” and arguing that, “politicians purporting to be America First can’t now credibly turn around and say they had nothing to do with it.”
...
“Well, considering that I’m the one that developed ‘America First,’ and considering that the term wasn’t used until I came along, I think I’m the one that decides that,” Trump told The Atlantic in response.
...
“While the American military may not have physically perpetrated the assault, years of funding and sending weapons to Israel, which Donald Trump just bragged about on Truth Social, undeniably place the U.S. at the center of last night’s events,” the former Fox News host wrote in a newsletter following the strikes.
Americans have sent weapons and equipment (from presidents who are Republicans and Democrats) to many, many countries over the years, including nowadays to Ukraine. Why shouldn’t Israel get defensive weapons from us? I’m sure they are being purchased and not just donated, so what’s the problem?
 
I’m sure they are being purchased and not just donated
Mostly with grants from America's Foreign Military Financing, where we gifted them money to buy military weaponry from the U.S. Israel is the largest recipient of FMF by far.

America is the enabler, and is knee-deep in this conflict.
 

Paula White Ministries and Pastor Paula White-Cain have a long, successful history of supporting Israel and God’s Chosen people. Every believer in the Lord Jesus Christ should place a high value on the Jewish people because God has. In the Bible, in Genesis 12:3, the Lord reminds us of the covenant He made with Abraham when He said:
“I will bless those who bless you, and I will curse him who curses you; and in you all the families of the earth shall be blessed.”
This relates not only to the Jewish people but also to the nation of Israel. And in this pivotal moment in human history, we are called to STAND with ISRAEL! This isn’t about politics; this is about living in harmony with the WORD of God!
 
Mostly with grants from America's Foreign Military Financing, where we gifted them money to buy military weaponry from the U.S. Israel is the largest recipient of FMF by far.

America is the enabler, and is knee-deep in this conflict.
1. I have no idea about military financing and how that works in relation to intra-national vs international politics, so I won’t even attempt to be an expert on this subject.

2. Having read many of your posts, it seems that you believe that most of today’s Christians are misinterpreting Scriptures in relation to fidelity to Israel. Again, I’m not going to pretend to be an expert on this subject one way or the other.

3. Let’s set aside points one and two and focus on this simple question. Does Israel, being a tiny country surrounded by larger aggressor countries, not have a moral and political right to defend itself? If you do believe this, it doesn’t seem so.
 
1. I have no idea about military financing and how that works in relation to intra-national vs international politics, so I won’t even attempt to be an expert on this subject.
I'm no expert, either. A cursory internet search on American foreign aid to Israel will yield some basic facts that most people, me included, just didn't know, because it's not widely reported on. I mean, who has the Council on Foreign Relations website bookmarked?

Anyone?

Anyone?

2. Having read many of your posts, it seems that you believe that most of today’s Christians are misinterpreting Scriptures in relation to fidelity to Israel.
That is a fair assessment. Well done.

3. Let’s set aside points one and two and focus on this simple question. Does Israel, being a tiny country surrounded by larger aggressor countries, not have a moral and political right to defend itself? If you do believe this, it doesn’t seem so.
The short answer is, yes. Every nation has the natural right to self defense. But does every nation have the right to demand that America finance and fight its wars?

But Israel isn't just any nation. The Jews aren't just a race, as you found out when trying define the anti-semitism cudgel. Besides, I don't think any Jew today could be called a Hebrew any more than Elizabeth Warren can be called a Cherokee.

Israel was born in the Exodus, baptized unto Moses in the Red Sea, and was brought by God to the land of Canaan to make a house of worship for Him. But these things were a mere illustration of God's real plan, and that was to usher in the New Testament in the blood of His Son, and move into a new house. The law is fulfilled. The promises are fulfilled. The covenant through which Israel under the law found its identity is cancelled. Abolished. Rejected. It's over. It's sign, circumcision, is no longer valid...and never will be again.

Then in 70 AD, God tore His old house down.

...................
Interesting aside:

There was an effort to rebuild the Temple a couple of hundred years later under Julian the Apostate, which was quashed by earthquakes and fires. There's an interesting parallel, I think, in that effort with Netanyahu's seeming enthusiasm for Trump's suggestion of American control of Gaza to displace the Palestinians and rebuild the region. Trump's motive was peace in the region. Netanyahu's was something else. Julian wasn't hiding his true motives in allowing the Jews to rebuild the Temple, but the Jews went along with it for their own purposes, as their own historians say:
By allowing the Temple to be rebuilt, he was ensuring that Jews would resume their practice of offering animal sacrifices—to a god Julian regarded as his own! Certainly Jews themselves had different views, especially regarding the purpose of animal sacrifice. But their perspective had little to do with the emperor’s decision.
................


Back to the main thought...the Jewish title to the land has expired. It was based on a covenant, not natural law. God brought them in, then God drove them out and tore up the deed.

It hasn't yet been a thousand years since the Aztecs and Myans fell, but if their descendants began to call the regions where their cities and temples were built their 'homeland,' it would be deemed ludicrous and invalid, and for good reason.

It's been two thousand years for the Jews. Why are we attempting to call Palestine the Jewish homeland? There hasn't been a Jewish progenitor there for centuries of generations. By all natural rights, it's the Palestinians' homeland.

And why the migration? Ostensibly it's so the Jews can live in peace having been so 'mistreated' everywhere they went, instead of just suffering for their troublemaking. That was the stated goal of the League of Nations and of the United Nations, but the new Jewish state would have to set up a democratic form of government.

Certainly the Zionists have different views of forms of government, but going along with this gives them control of the region. But why this region, and not the region in Uganda that Great Britain originally proposed? They certainly could have lived in peace there. And it isn't a desert.

The insistence on Palestine has to do with the Jewish temple, and the Old Covenant. But not the seeming angelic view of those things, as we all imagine...There are some Jewish sects for which this may be true...but it's still a denial of Christ. It is for the rabbinical and scribal views, which is a form of Jewish supremacy. There can be no other goal than to eventually ethnically cleanse the region and tear down the mosque and rebuild the temple, usher in their messiah and take their place as rulers of the world, and have the wealth of the nations funnelled to them. That is the whole point of Zionism. It isn't the goal of most Israelis, though, but then, it isn't the average Israeli that is educated in the Talmud, is it?

It isn't the goal of most Jews. The average Jew...well...the Jews I've known...is content to live abroad, attend Temple...or not...and assimilate into the culture. But, the average Jew isn't a rabbi.

But by whatever means, the modern state of Israel is there for now, and it can engage the international community as can any other nation. But we have to recognize how it got there, how that is exacerbating problems in the region, and understand that a Jewish state cannot long tolerate the freedom of non-jewish practices in the region, because of the nature and tenets of Talmudic Judaism, and of the letter of the Torah.

And, for heaven's sake, stop thinking that it is a Christian thing to promote Judaism, or pray for its peace and safety. Judaism is antichrist.

Israel is a foreign nation. And it's not God's nation. Stop treating it like it is.
 
But we have to recognize how it got there, how that is exacerbating problems in the region, and understand that a Jewish state cannot long tolerate the freedom of non-jewish practices in the region, because of the nature and tenets of Talmudic Judaism, and of the letter of the Torah.
That’s an easy one: the Holocaust.
And, for heaven's sake, stop thinking that it is a Christian thing to promote Judaism, or pray for its peace and safety. Judaism is antichrist.
I don’t think it’s the job of a Christian to promote Judaism, but I feel it’s the job of a Christian to help protect the nation of Israel.
Israel is a foreign nation. And it's not God's nation. Stop t
No one denies that Israel is a foreign nation, but I don’t think my grandfather helped fight the Nazis in WW2 (albeit from a naval ship) just to let Israel’s Jews be left to flounder without support from allies.
 
That’s an easy one: the Holocaust.
Germany's already paid for that ten times over, but the Balfour Declaration and the British Mandate predate Kristallnacht and the Final Solution by twenty years or more. They certainly predate Hitler's election to the chancellery.

I don’t think it’s the job of a Christian to promote Judaism, but I feel it’s the job of a Christian to help protect the nation of Israel.
Above any other nation? Why? Your answer to that is my whole point.

No one denies that Israel is a foreign nation, but I don’t think my grandfather helped fight the Nazis in WW2 (albeit from a naval ship) just to let Israel’s Jews be left to flounder without support from allies.
And my grandfather was part of the liberation of the concentration camps. But I don't think either fought to allow the British to give the Jews someone else's land without their consent. My grandfather wasn't a Christian at the time. He returned and began attending the Pentecostal Sunday school where my grandmother was saved, made a confession, and was given a Scofield Bible, and well...then he did think the Jews should have Palestine. What can I say?
 
Last edited:
Germany's already paid for that ten times over, but the Balfour Declaration and the British Mandate predate Kristallnacht and the Final Solution by twenty years or more. They certainly predate Hitler's election to the chancellery.


Above any other nation? Why? Your answer to that is my whole point.


And my grandfather was part of the liberation of the concentration camps. But I don't think either fought to allow the British to give the Jews someone else's land without their consent. My grandfather wasn't a Christian at the time. He returned and began attending the Pentecostal Sunday school where my grandmother was saved, made a confession, and was given a Scofield Bible, and well...then he did think the Jews should have Palestine. What can I say?
Your last sentence brought me to an interesting article. I’m not saying I agree with its conclusion, but the author blames the Scofield Bible for America’s Zionism: https://www.wrmea.org/2015-october/...nists-of-americas-evangelical-christians.html
 
Your last sentence brought me to an interesting article. I’m not saying I agree with its conclusion, but the author blames the Scofield Bible for America’s Zionism: https://www.wrmea.org/2015-october/...nists-of-americas-evangelical-christians.html
A cursory internet search didn't reveal anything fringe about this publication. But I'm not hopping on board with this one yet. (One can't be too careful.)

Just to be clear, my opinons about the Scofield Bible are based on what I've personally seen and my interactions with its devotees in my own circles. I've also picked up some items here and there as I've studied over the years, but nobody came to me and said, "Scofield was a Zionist." I didn't even know what Zionism was until well into my college career...Well...I didn't know it as Zionism, I knew the Dispensational flavor of it, and I believed a form of it. I was a Dispensational Premillennialist...sort of. My varied background saved me from a wholesale descent into that deception on the order of @biscuit1953 and @Tarheel Baptist, who seem more afraid to criticize Israel than they are to blaspheme Christ.

And why is this important? It is because of the Person, work, and Gospel of Jesus Christ. By far the greatest offense of the Scofield Bible is the idea of parallel covenants, one for the gentiles, and one the jews, and two means of salvation. One that is all of grace, by which they mean salvation unaccompanied by repentance (or they redefine it to mean something other than to repent) for the gentiles, and one that mixes grace with works of the law for the jews. Repentance is for the jews, not gentiles.

What a diabolical doctrine! Can you imagine believing that? The first principle of the Gospel, repentance, is robbed from the gentiles. That is the seed that fell by the way side being devoured by the fowls of the air.

By their 'rightly dividing' (falsely so-called) of the word of truth, they rob the Scriptures of the Gospel itself. The book of James is for the Tribulation jews. We can just ignore it. The Kingdom of Heaven (vs Kingdom of God) is all about the jews. That's not for us believing gentiles. And there is just absolutely no profit whatsoever for us in a study of the law. We're just the lucky beneficiaries of the Jews' rejection of Christ. God had to adjust His plan a little bit because those sly chief priests and scribes thwarted His original plan to set up the earthly messianic kingdom (the Kingdom of Heaven).

But don't worry, in the future the antichrist will whip the jews into shape and then Christ Himself will descend from Heaven and rescue them from Gog and Magog, set up residence in the temple and there will be miracles and power and glory...it will be like the Exodus all over again!

And Sinai! Oh, Sinai...wasn't that sumthin!

And we'll get to make yearly pilgrimages to Jerusalem! And we'll see Jesus in the Temple. And the Ark! Ooooh, God loves that golden box! And there will be a pillar of fire and pillar of smoke, and sacrifices!! (But there won't be any flies or stink.)

And can you believe, even after all that some nations STILL won't believe and won't make their yearly pigrimage...Sooo

1750166567907.png


Need I go on?
 
A cursory internet search didn't reveal anything fringe about this publication. But I'm not hopping on board with this one yet. (One can't be too careful.)

Just to be clear, my opinons about the Scofield Bible are based on what I've personally seen and my interactions with its devotees in my own circles. I've also picked up some items here and there as I've studied over the years, but nobody came to me and said, "Scofield was a Zionist." I didn't even know what Zionism was until well into my college career...Well...I didn't know it as Zionism, I knew the Dispensational flavor of it, and I believed a form of it. I was a Dispensational Premillennialist...sort of. My varied background saved me from a wholesale descent into that deception on the order of @biscuit1953 and @Tarheel Baptist, who seem more afraid to criticize Israel than they are to blaspheme Christ.

And why is this important? It is because of the Person, work, and Gospel of Jesus Christ. By far the greatest offense of the Scofield Bible is the idea of parallel covenants, one for the gentiles, and one the jews, and two means of salvation. One that is all of grace, by which they mean salvation unaccompanied by repentance (or they redefine it to mean something other than to repent) for the gentiles, and one that mixes grace with works of the law for the jews. Repentance is for the jews, not gentiles.

What a diabolical doctrine! Can you imagine believing that? The first principle of the Gospel, repentance, is robbed from the gentiles. That is the seed that fell by the way side being devoured by the fowls of the air.

By their 'rightly dividing' (falsely so-called) of the word of truth, they rob the Scriptures of the Gospel itself. The book of James is for the Tribulation jews. We can just ignore it. The Kingdom of Heaven (vs Kingdom of God) is all about the jews. That's not for us believing gentiles. And there is just absolutely no profit whatsoever for us in a study of the law. We're just the lucky beneficiaries of the Jews' rejection of Christ. God had to adjust His plan a little bit because those sly chief priests and scribes thwarted His original plan to set up the earthly messianic kingdom (the Kingdom of Heaven).

But don't worry, in the future the antichrist will whip the jews into shape and then Christ Himself will descend from Heaven and rescue them from Gog and Magog, set up residence in the temple and there will be miracles and power and glory...it will be like the Exodus all over again!

And Sinai! Oh, Sinai...wasn't that sumthin!

And we'll get to make yearly pilgrimages to Jerusalem! And we'll see Jesus in the Temple. And the Ark! Ooooh, God loves that golden box! And there will be a pillar of fire and pillar of smoke, and sacrifices!! (But there won't be any flies or stink.)

And can you believe, even after all that some nations STILL won't believe and won't make their yearly pigrimage...Sooo

View attachment 7237


Need I go on?
You don’t need to go on, you’ve sufficiently revealed the level of bitterness and hate that for some reason to possess against Jews AND inexplicably Dispensationalists and or any Premill.

Very Christian of you…
 
Back
Top