'America First' Means 'After Israel'

Ekklesian said:
I'm in good company.
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I’ll say you’re in rare company. I don’t recall ever knowing a Christian who didn’t support Israel. That doesn’t mean everyone has condoned and supported every single decision from the country, but everyone has ultimately felt the need to safeguard its existence. I’m not calling you a terrorist or anything like that, I’m just calling your stance very unusual (for a Bible-believing Christian).
 
DrHuk&Duck said:
You forgot to list one other group: @Ekklesian and @Bruh.
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You’re funny. But I don’t support Iran. I’m pro America. And going to war with Iran doesn’t help America it only hurts us for more than a few reasons.

Just because someone disagrees with the so called reasons our government wants to go to war doesn’t mean we are pro Iran or against Israel. Do you remember Ted Kennedy? Do you remember what he said when we were invading Afghanistan? He said, this is nothing more than another Vietnam!! And do you remember how they said he was against American troops? And causing morale to go down because he was against the invasion. They demonized him. But he was right. He was dead right. Go ahead and look it up on YouTube.

I am not your enemy because we disagree.

I’m not against anyone. I’m against people dying for absolutely no reason. First our soldiers. Again we died, over there. We lost moms, dad, brothers, nephews, cousins over there and for what?????
 
Maybe our relationship with Iran would have been different if we hadn't undermined their democratically elected leadership to return the Shah to power. We hate the idea of foreign powers meddling in our elections but we have never been particularly concerned about our own involvement in overthrowing the governments of other sovereign nations.

They don't hate us for nothing.
 
Bruh said:
I’m not against anyone. I’m against people dying for absolutely no reason. First our soldiers. Again we died, over there. We lost moms, dad, brothers, nephews, cousins over there and for what?????
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Well, I’ve got news for you: people tend to die in every war since the dawn of civilization. Oh, and the people who tend to die don’t tend to be the wealthy and entitled classes of people. Conscription laws dating back to the Revolutionary War enabled rich young men to send substitute soldiers in their place (particularly slaves and indentured servants). Of course in more recent times, medical waivers and college admissions have played a role in “legal draft dodging.” If you’re going to get upset about something, why not that?
 
Ekklesian said:
My statement 'number me with the transgressors' was a reference to Isaiah 53:12. That's what I meant about being in good company.

BTW, say 'hey' to aleshanee for me.
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I guess you missed my point about not knowing any Christians with your stance on Israel.

Oh, and you can tell @aleshanee hey yourself.
 
I remember back in 2003 hearing that our invasion of Iraq would be a cakewalk, our troops would be welcomed as liberators, hardly anyone would get hurt, the Iraqis have weapons of mass destruction and we know exactly where they are, it would all be over in a few months, Iraq and the entire Middle East would be re-made with friendly pro-American and pro-Israel governments.

Second verse, same as the first - now we're going into Iran, following the same script, and hoping for better results than we got in Iraq (not to mention Afghanistan). Did I mention that Iran has more people and land area than Iraq and Afghanistan combined?
 
DrHuk&Duck said:
Well, I’ve got news for you: people tend to die in every war since the dawn of civilization. Oh, and the people who tend to die don’t tend to be the wealthy and entitled classes of people. Conscription laws dating back to the Revolutionary War enabled rich young men to send substitute soldiers in their place (particularly slaves and indentured servants). Of course in more recent times, medical waivers and college admissions have played a role in “legal draft dodging.” If you’re going to get upset about something, why not that?
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The point is, it was for nothing it was all a lie.

Can you see that?
 
Bruh said:
The point is, it was for nothing it was all a lie.

Can you see that?
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Sure. I’ve written at length about this topic both recently and in past years. I was against the Iraq invasion back when it happened. I was referred to as a communist, a liberal, unpatriotic, etc. Even with everything we now know as factual regarding that invasion, there are still people (including on this forum) who defend it. Here was my quote from a couple of months ago:
DrHuk&Duck said:
I’m not going to go along with his rhetoric on the 9/11 stuff, but since we’re on the topic of the Middle East, I’m still waiting for evidence of those WMDs in Iraq that was used as justification for that part of the war initiated by George W. Bush. 🤷🏻‍♂️
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My point is that, how many wars are actually truly justified, and who gets to decide the justification. The one thing I know for sure is that the wealthy class will never see their kids off to war, and historically if they have gone to war, it’s been via a sheltered positions. (Do you remember the Bush military service controversy? https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_W._Bush_military_service_controversy)
 
DrHuk&Duck said:
Sure. I’ve written at length about this topic both recently and in past years. I was against the Iraq invasion back when it happened. I was referred to as a communist, a liberal, unpatriotic, etc. Even with everything we now know as factual regarding that invasion, there are still people (including on this forum) who defend it. Here was my quote from a couple of months ago:

My point is that, how many wars are actually truly justified, and who gets to decide the justification. The one thing I know for sure is that the wealthy class will never see their kids off to war, and historically if they have gone to war, it’s been via a sheltered positions. (Do you remember the Bush military service controversy? https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_W._Bush_military_service_controversy)
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Yes. Bc they believe in it soooo much. Just like Iran today.
 
In 2003, 76% of Americans supported going to war in Iraq. Current support for war with Iran, 16% - not exactly a mandate. Looks like this will be suicide for Trump and the Republicans, if they ignore the will of the people. But Bibi will be happy - I guess that's all that matters.

libertarianinstitute.org

Poll: Republicans Oppose Involvement in Israel’s War, Americans Want Talks With Iran | The Libertarian Institute

A new poll shows that a majority of Americans want President Donald Trump to engage in negotiations with Iran and do not want Washington to support Tel Aviv’s offensive war against the Islamic Republic.
libertarianinstitute.org libertarianinstitute.org

"The survey, conducted by YouGov following the unprovoked Israeli attack on Iran, found 60% of Americans do not want Trump to enter the newest conflict in the Middle East, compared to just 16% of voters who want Washington to aid Tel Aviv’s military operation.

"Even among Americans who voted for Trump in 2024, only 19% support entering the conflict. A majority of Republicans said they want Washington to stay out of the war. Even among Trump’s 2024 votes, only 19% prefer entering the war, with 53% demanding Washington not get involved in Tel Aviv’s conflict."
 
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At this point in time, it is appropriate that we be sensitive to the feelings of the Jewish people about whether to go to war with Iran. Here is the statement by J Street, an influential pro-Israel Jewish organization, on whether America should go to war with Iran:

"In the wake of Israel’s military operation overnight on Iran’s military leadership and nuclear capabilities, J Street urges leaders regionally and globally to find a path quickly to end the fighting before it spirals into a broader regional war. . . .

"J Street recognizes the threat posed by Iran’s hardline regime to the United States, Israel and our other allies. We have consistently maintained that the best way to address this very real threat is diplomatically and not militarily and that remains so today. . . .

"Now that a strike has happened, we urge all the parties to take this moment to reassess. We urge the Trump Administration to meaningfully pursue a diplomatic resolution to this conflict as quickly as possible while making clear the US will do what is necessary to defend Israel and US troops from retaliation."

jstreet.org

J Street Statement Following Israeli Attack on Iran - J Street

We urge the Trump administration to meaningfully pursue a diplomatic resolution to this conflict as quickly as possible while making clear the US will do what is necessary to defend Israel and US troops from retaliation.
jstreet.org jstreet.org

In other words, J Street is not calling for America to go to war with Iran. Meanwhile, I have researched the latest statements by these prominent Christian Zionists - John Hagee, Franklin Graham, Glenn Beck and Mike Evans. As I understand it, all of them are hoping that Israel will win against Iran, they are all calling for America to keep supporting Israel, but none of them at this point are calling for America to go to war with Iran. Here is Glenn Beck's statement as of June 16: "Let's stop and ask ourselves, a few hard questions, shall we? First of all, is this America's war. The answer is no. Should we be there fighting it? Answer, no. Has Israel asked us to fight their war? Answer, no."

So, I don't understand where this big push for America to go to war with Iran is coming from.
 
Personally, I don’t think we should go to war with Iran other than in a proxy manner. Israel is a key ally in the Middle East. I have no issue with helping Israel in the context of sending supplies and selling weapons. However, I don’t support putting American troops on the ground in Iran or Israel.
 
illinoisguy said:
"Let's stop and ask ourselves, a few hard questions, shall we? First of all, is this America's war. The answer is no. Should we be there fighting it? Answer, no. Has Israel asked us to fight their war? Answer, no."
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but but but but but I have been reliably informed that Netanyahu wants to go to war with Iran, and the West always does the bidding of its Jooish overlords. Now I'm confused.
 
I’ll add one more point to my previous post: we only know what the government wants us to know—and that goes for citizens in the United States, Canada, or probably anywhere else around the globe. For crying out loud, we’re still slowly getting fed CIA secrets from the 1950s and 60s, and papers are still being redacted and withheld! That’s why I don’t get too worked up about these foreign affairs events because I know that I only know what I’m supposed to know. My two cents….
 
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