Convicting. Or Should Be.

So, back to my question, what does a right to exist mean? Everyone seems invoke that in the case of IsraelTM.

I will say that if IsraelTM can exist, and can defend itself from its enemies (as all nations have enemies), then it has every freedom to do so.

But you are saying more than that. You're saying IsraelTM has a claim on my solidarity, on my loyalty, and on my resources above that of any other nation-state. You're saying the whole world is obligated to carve out a piece of Palestine just for IsraelTM, and to defend it.

Isn't that what you mean by a right to exist?
 
I really believe Trump is the best choice as president, democrats are gone full atheist and communist no matter what they say, their actions prove what I just said.

As for Trump, if he is indeed a Christian he’s a very sinful one, but I believe God raises kings and presidents thus compared to the communist Democratic Party and their demonic choice for our president , I must vote Trump. I pray for him, that God will work in his heart and Gods will be done. I believe God is in control of all things and His will is being done everyday.
 
"First, to set fire to their synagogues or schools ... This is to be done in honor of our Lord and of Christendom, so that God might see that we are Christians ...I advise that their houses also be razed and destroyed...I recommend putting a flail, an ax, a hoe, a spade, a distaff, or a spindle into the hands of young, strong Jews and Jewesses and letting them earn their bread in the sweat of their brow ... But if we are afraid that they might harm us or our wives, children, servants, cattle, etc., ... then let us emulate the common sense of other nations such as France, Spain, Bohemia, etc., ... then eject them forever from the country …" Martin Luther (Christian Reformer)

“Once I really am in power, my first and foremost task will be the annihilation of the Jews. As soon as I have the power to do so, I will have gallows built in rows...Then the Jews will be hanged indiscriminately...until all of Germany has been completely cleansed of Jews.” Hitler (1922)

“I know those Jews are God’s chosen people but I think God bent over backwards for them...Hitler had the right idea, he just didn’t carry it through.” My uncle who claimed to be a “Christian” (1967)

“But look at what the Jews did to Germany!” My Church of Christ Minister neighbor excusing the Holocaust (2013)

Anti-Zionists (who deny Israel has a right to exist) claim they don’t hate Jews (just the state of Israel) but on college campuses across America, instead of having peaceful protests about what is going on in Israel which lies over 5,000 miles away, they have been attacking Jewish students and even calling for their deaths. Imagine a nation in Africa being condemned for not having a right to exist and Black students across America were being attacked and threatened with death for something they have nothing to do with. The hypocrisy of worldwide Jewish hatred is so thick you could cut it with a knife. And that includes Christian anti-Semites.​


​
 
Last edited:
subllibrm said:
I agree that many evangelicals Christians have compromised their integrity by making excuses for Mr. Trump.
Click to expand...
Thing is many evangelical “”pastors”” are guilty of that also, and the things some of these “”IFB” churches have done to keep it in house so no one finds out about it. The SOL has swept things under the rug to keep their mini god Jack Hyles and David’s sins swept under the rug.
 
biscuit1953 said:
"First, to set fire to their synagogues or schools ... This is to be done in honor of our Lord and of Christendom, so that God might see that we are Christians ...I advise that their houses also be razed and destroyed...I recommend putting a flail, an ax, a hoe, a spade, a distaff, or a spindle into the hands of young, strong Jews and Jewesses and letting them earn their bread in the sweat of their brow ... But if we are afraid that they might harm us or our wives, children, servants, cattle, etc., ... then let us emulate the common sense of other nations such as France, Spain, Bohemia, etc., ... then eject them forever from the country …" Martin Luther (Christian Reformer)

“Once I really am in power, my first and foremost task will be the annihilation of the Jews. As soon as I have the power to do so, I will have gallows built in rows...Then the Jews will be hanged indiscriminately...until all of Germany has been completely cleansed of Jews.” Hitler (1922)

“I know those Jews are God’s chosen people but I think God bent over backwards for them...Hitler had the right idea, he just didn’t carry it through.” My uncle who claimed to be a “Christian” (1967)

“But look at what the Jews did to Germany!” My Church of Christ Minister neighbor excusing the Holocaust (2013)

Anti-Zionists (who deny Israel has a right to exist) claim they don’t hate Jews (just the state of Israel) but on college campuses across America, instead of having peaceful protests about what is going on in Israel which lies over 5,000 miles away, they have been attacking Jewish students and even calling for their deaths. Imagine a nation in Africa being condemned for not having a right to exist and Black students across America were being attacked and threatened with death for something they have nothing to do with. The hypocrisy of worldwide Jewish hatred is so thick you could it with a knife. And that includes Christian anti-Semites.​


​
Click to expand...
Answer the question, please.

What does a right to exist mean?

I will say that if IsraelTM can exist, and can defend itself from its enemies (as all nations have enemies), then it has every freedom to do so.

But you are saying more than that. You're saying IsraelTM has a claim on my solidarity, on my loyalty, and on my resources above that of any other nation-state. You're saying the whole world is obligated to carve out a piece of Palestine just for IsraelTM, and to defend it to the death.

Isn't that what you mean by a right to exist?

Don't you really mean IsraelTM has the right to supremacy?
 
Last edited:
Ekklesian said:
Answer the question, please.

What does a right to exist mean?

I will say that if IsraelTM can exist, and can defend itself from its enemies (as all nations have enemies), then it has every freedom to do so.

But you are saying more than that. You're saying IsraelTM has a claim on my solidarity, on my loyalty, and on my resources above that of any other nation-state. You're saying the whole world is obligated to carve out a piece of Palestine just for IsraelTM, and to defend it to the death.

Isn't that what you mean by a right to exist?

Don't you really mean IsraelTM has the right to supremacy?
Click to expand...
Could you post excerpts of his quotes showing that he has said anything like what you're claiming?
 
Ekklesian said:
I'm asking him a question.

Now I'm asking you the same question. What's your answer?
Click to expand...
Nope. It don't work that way. Your question is based on a false premise, an unsubstantiated assertion. Try again.
 
Ekklesian said:
I'm asking him a question.
Click to expand...

No, you're making an assertion:

Ekklesian said:
But you are saying more than that. You're saying IsraelTM has a claim on my solidarity, on my loyalty, and on my resources above that of any other nation-state. You're saying the whole world is obligated to carve out a piece of Palestine just for IsraelTM, and to defend it to the death.
Click to expand...

As ALAYMAN asked, can you support that assertion with quotes?

If not, you may be asking a question, but it's a loaded question based on false premises, in which case biscuit has no obligation to answer.
 
@Ekklesian - Just out of curiosity, why are you now typing the trademark symbol beside the name of Israel in every post? This seems to be a recent trend on your part.
 
subllibrm said:
I agree that many evangelicals Christians have compromised their integrity by making excuses for Mr. Trump.
Click to expand...
Trump is not a pastor but a business man . If Trump were involved with Epstein Trump would not be the president today. Not sure why we don't have the list I don't make excuses for anyone.
 
Israel is the only nation in the world that feeds the very enemy that vows its destruction. Sen. Tom Cotton exposes the lies of the global media and the propaganda of the United Nations with its slander of Israel. The prophesies concerning Israel in the last days will be fulfilled to the last letter and God’s covenant with them as a nation will not be thwarted whether America supports her or not.

 
Last edited:
DrHuk&Duck said:
@Ekklesian - Just out of curiosity, why are you now typing the trademark symbol beside the name of Israel in every post? This seems to be a recent trend on your part.
Click to expand...
Yes, it is a recent trend. Brand new, actually. It's too bad the UBB superscript/subscript tags don't work on this forum. The geopolitical state of IsraelTM is not the Israel of the Bible, nor the Israel of God. Neither is it the Israel of Judaism. Shapiro says that Zionism is stealing the Jewish identity for something that is not Judaism or Jewish. That strikes me as an apt description. So, IsraelTM seems an apt designation for the Zionist state.

I've had a book on my shelves for a number of years, A Rabbi Talks with Jesus, by Jacob Neusner. He was considered by many the foremost authority on Judaism in the first centuries of Christianity. He wasn't an Orthdox Jew. He was a Reform Jew, but the way Shapiro identifies 'true Jews' reminded me of the way Neusner identified Israel.

Neusner spoke of an 'eternal Israel', by which he meant all Jews from Sinai forward, and of an 'Israel of the here and now,' by which he meant Jews practicing in a community. In one of his dialogues with the Jesus of his imagination drawn from the Gospel of Matthew*, Neusner saw Jesus preaching a new Israel in His commandment to seek first the Kingdom of God and His righteousness...

"But, sir, the Israel of home and family is where I am."​
​
And that leads me to ask my other question provoked by my reckoning with the Ten Commandments: What of Israel where it is, what of Israel when it takes place? [he does not mean IsraelTM ] And to clarify these somewhat opaque questions and spell out why they matter, we turn to the one of the Ten Commandments that tells us to sanctify the Sabbath, the commandment that speaks of time and space: Israel in the here and now of home and village. ​

Neusner went on to describe how he saw Jesus preaching not just a new Israel, but also a new holy place in His defense of the disciples' plucking and eating ears of grain on the Sabbath day.

When, therefore, Jesus says that something greater than the Temple is here, he can only mean that he and his disciples may do on the Sabbath what they do because they stand in the place of the priests in the Temple: the holy place has shifted, now being formed by the circle made up of the master and his disciples. ​
​
Anyway. I bought the book, because I wanted to see what arguments the 'world's foremost authority on Judaism vs Early Christianity' would make. He didn't misunderstand Jesus at all. The Jesus seen by Neusner said, "I'm God. My disciples are the true kingdom, the true Israel, and the true temple." And that was just too much for him. But he saw that message where most of us unlearned in Judaism usually miss it, in the Gospel written primarily to the Jews.

But all of that to say, that Shapiro's and Neusner's identification of Jews and of Israel appear to be indicative of that of an orthodox Judaism, and it is not IsraelTM.

*He could not conceive an argument with John's Jesus, because eternal Israel in [the Gospel of] John is treated with unconcealed hatred ...
 
Last edited:
biscuit1953 said:
Israel is the only nation in the world that feeds the very enemy that vows its destruction. Sen. Tom Cotton exposes the lies of the global media and the propaganda of the United Nations with its slander of Israel. The prophesies concerning Israel in the last days will be fulfilled to the last letter and God’s covenant with them as a nation will not be thwarted whether America support her or not.

Click to expand...
This appears to be an affirmative response to my understanding of what you mean by IsraelTM's right to exist.
 
ALAYMAN said:
Nope. It don't work that way. Your question is based on a false premise, an unsubstantiated assertion. Try again.
Click to expand...
Spare me the doubletalk.

I asked the question plainly right here.

His and your reactions warranted the rephrasing and amplification.
 
Ransom said:
No, you're making an assertion:



As ALAYMAN asked, can you support that assertion with quotes?

If not, you may be asking a question, but it's a loaded question based on false premises, in which case biscuit has no obligation to answer.
Click to expand...
See number 95
 
Tarheel Baptist said:
The problem with that is that political issues are sometimes Biblical and moral issues.
I would never hesitate to speak out on abortion, trans and gay issues…even though they are hot button political issues.
Click to expand...
And to me, that is the theological slippery slope.

Absolutely, God's Word addresses all the issues of all the days. But I think sometimes we can get so carried away with the doctrines (of say, life, sexuality, moral issues, modesty in attire, etc.) that many churches realize one day that it has been MONTHS since the gospel message was proclaimed in their congregation. And to me, that's a slide in the wrong direction.
 
Justice1976 said:
Absolutely, God's Word addresses all the issues of all the days. But I think sometimes we can get so carried away with the doctrines (of say, life, sexuality, moral issues, modesty in attire, etc.) that many churches realize one day that it has been MONTHS since the gospel message was proclaimed in their congregation. And to me, that's a slide in the wrong direction.
Click to expand...
Understandable... However, that issue can be taken care of by committing to systematically teaching the Word book by book, chapter by chapter, verse by verse. This approach forces the teacher/pastor to address issues maybe even he doesn't want to address. No pet sermon subjects.

That isn't to say there can't be the occasional topical study as the Spirit leads but even topical studies will tend to be governed by the systematic teaching of the word.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top