Daniel's 70th Week and President Trump's Peace Plan

ALAYMAN said:
Is His kingdom here now in fulness?
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Yes. Not by your way of thinking, obviously. I'm assuming you're thinking of the Dispensational view of the Thousand Years of Revelation.

I'm thinking of the Amillennial view.

I'm willing to go into much more detail about that if you want to.
 
Ekklesian said:
Yes. Not by your way of thinking, obviously. I'm assuming you're thinking of the Dispensational view of the Thousand Years of Revelation.

I'm thinking of the Amillennial view.

I'm willing to go into much more detail about that if you want to.
Click to expand...
Sure, I'm all ears.
 
To come back to the assumption of the OP, that there's a gap between the 69th and 70th week of the prophecy in Daniel 9:20ff:

Daniel 9 begins with Daniel's prayer of confession. He has been reading Jeremiah, apparently, and knows that God has promised the exile will last 70 years (Dan. 9:1-2). Responding to this, he confesses Israel's sins, acknowedging that the exile is the just consequence for their actions. He appeals to God's compassion, asking him to forgive his people and restore Jerusalem, for his own name's sake (3-19).

Then, in response to this, he receives a visit from the angel Gabriel, who says that his pleas for mercy have been heard, and he has come to Daniel with God's answer (20-23).

"Seventy weeks" are decreed, which is generally understood to be "weeks" of years: seventy times seven, or 490 years. During this time, six things will be accomplished:

  • to finish the transgression;
  • to put an end to sin. These first two points presumably mean to deal with Israel's present rebellion and sinfulness, which led to their captivity;
  • to atone for iniquity. The first two points indicate simply the end of sinful activity, whereas this one promises reconciliation, the taking away of consequences;
  • to bring in everlasting righteousness. The first three points describe the taking away of the negative, but the last three are positive: in this case, not merely the removal of sin, but the addition of righteousness;
  • to seal both vision and prophet. Not a seal in the sense of shutting up, but to place a seal or stamp upon it, as if a signature, as a mark of authenticity;
  • to anoint the Most Holy.

This last point could mean the most holy place, i.e. the restoration and cleansing of the Temple; it could also mean an individual. The verses that follow strongly suggest that it is an individual that Gabriel intends, specifically, the Anointed One, or Messiah.

These actions take place during the seventy sevens.

The first "seven" and the next sixty-two "sevens" are obviously distinct--why else separate them?--but at the same time, little actualy distinguishes them. They mark the time between the decree and the coming of the Anointed One. During this time, as Daniel prayed for, Jerusalem will be rebuilt--with "squares [streets?] and moat" (25), though the time will be troubled.

In the first seven, we see the return of hope. The decree goes out from Cyrus, permitting the people to return to the Promised Land and rebuild their city. In the next 62, life goes on with the city restored, though the times are tumultuous: Israel has yet to experience the rest that God promised them on their land, which did not then, and has never since, known peace. But at least they have a home again.

By the end of sixty-nine "sevens," God's purposes are almost complete, and an Anointed One is obviously instrumental in bringing about those purposes. However, during the final "seven," he is "cut off" and "shall have nothing." The translation of the latter phrase is apparently difficult, with alternatives such as "unjustly," "with no one to take his part," and others having been suggested. It seems to me the sense is something like "for nothing," as though the Messiah died having seemingly accomplished nothing.

But it's obvious that this prophecy is overwhelmingly Messianic. Daniel, reading Jeremiah, petitions God for mercy; God's answer is that mercy will come, but not in Jeremiah's seventy years, but seventy times seven. Dating notable events such as Daniel's prayer, the decree to rebuild Jerusalem, and the coming of Christ are difficult and not known with accuracy. Probably the numbers are as much symbolic as they are calendrial. Nonetheless, from the time of Daniel to the time of Christ is roughly 500 years--pretty darn close.

Clearly the 70th "seven" is the climax of the prophecy. During this time, the Anointed One is "cut off." It is Christ, the Messiah, the Anointed One, who finally brings an end to sin and transgression. It is he who makes a strong covenant with his people, ratifying it with the sacrifice of his own blood (Luke 22:20). The people who put Jesus to death thought that was the end of the matter, as though he had accomplished nothing, but they were not yet aware that his death was cosmic in importance. It is he who puts an end to sacrifice: "there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins" (Heb. 10:26) because his sacrifice of himself was the final one.

Over and against the good work of Jesus Christ is the "prince who is to come," whose people shall "destroy the city and the sanctuary" (Dan. 9:26). This is an oblique reference to the Roman destruction of Jerusalem and the Temple in AD 70. Virtually every Christian realizes this is an act of divine judgment against Israel for rejecting his Messiah. If he has put an end to sacrifice, of what need is there of a Temple and a priesthood? Christ is the greater and eternal High Priest (Heb. 8:1). Worship is no longer focused on the Temple, but in his own Person. But for the "prince who is to come," an end is also decreed. Like the Assyrians who sacked the kingdom of Israel as the instrument of God's wrath, he, too, will in turn become the object of God's wrath in his own time for his wickedness.

The point of Daniel 9:20-27 is Messianic, not eschatological. The chapter begins with Daniel's plea for Israel; Gabriel's response must be understood in that context. Restoration and victory over sin will come: it will not be soon and it will not be easy, but it is certain, and it will be decisive.

Dispensationalist interpretation, on the other hand, all but ignores the immediate context and goes directly to the eschatology. Scofield's notes ignore the first 23 verses of Daniel 9 (apart from a note on Jeremiah's 70 years in verse 2), and he goes directly to the 70th week, which he takes for granted is delayed until the end of the church age, asserting only that it is "obviously an indeterminate period" (n. v. 26). It is, of course, obviously no such thing. The gap between the 69th and 70th weeks is postulated only to prop up the Dispensationalist assumption that the age of the church is a mystery never revealed to the prophets. On the contrary, Daniel 9:24-27 is a time prophecy, and asserting that the clock stops during a time prophecy renders the whole thing incoherent.
 
Ransom said:
Just maybe, the United States isn't that important in the grand biblical picture of things.
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If the USA exists at that time it will be on the wrong side like every other nation. Israel plus Jesus plus no one else.
 
The thing I believe is overlooked is the vision of Daniel extends from Daniel’s own day (6th century B.C.) to the setting up of the kingdom of the Messiah in the “latter days” (Dan 2:28). Daniel 10:14 predicts what will happen to Daniel’s people “in the latter days” not in Daniel’s lifetime.

Notice how the term “last days” is used in connection with “the day of the Lord” which can refer to a near future judgment (Eze 13:5; 30:3) or a far future judgment as in Zech 14:1-17.

Zec 14:1 Behold, the day of the LORD cometh, and thy spoil shall be divided in the midst of thee.
Zec 14:2 For I will gather all nations against Jerusalem to battle; and the city shall be taken, and the houses rifled, and the women ravished; and half of the city shall go forth into captivity, and the residue of the people shall not be cut off from the city.
Zec 14:3 Then shall the LORD go forth, and fight against those nations, as when he fought in the day of battle.
Zec 14:4 And his feet shall stand in that day upon the mount of Olives, which is before Jerusalem on the east, and the mount of Olives shall cleave in the midst thereof toward the east and toward the west, and there shall be a very great valley; and half of the mountain shall remove toward the north, and half of it toward the south.
Zec 14:5 And ye shall flee to the valley of the mountains; for the valley of the mountains shall reach unto Azal: yea, ye shall flee, like as ye fled from before the earthquake in the days of Uzziah king of Judah: and the LORD my God shall come, and all the saints with thee.
Zec 14:9 And the LORD shall be king over all the earth: in that day shall there be one LORD, and his name one.

There are times when the near fulfillment prefigures the far fulfillment as in Joel 1:1-15 where it prefigures the far fulfillment of Joel 3:14.

Joel 3:14 Multitudes, multitudes in the valley of decision: for the day of the LORD is near in the valley of decision.
Joel 3:15 The sun and the moon shall be darkened, and the stars shall withdraw their shining.
Joel 3:16 The LORD also shall roar out of Zion, and utter his voice from Jerusalem; and the heavens and the earth shall shake: but the LORD will be the hope of his people, and the strength of the children of Israel.
Joel 1:15 Alas for the day! for the day of the LORD is at hand, and as a destruction from the Almighty shall it come.
Joel 3:17 So shall ye know that I am the LORD your God dwelling in Zion, my holy mountain: then shall Jerusalem be holy, and there shall no strangers pass through her any more.
Joel 3:18 And it shall come to pass in that day, that the mountains shall drop down new wine, and the hills shall flow with milk, and all the rivers of Judah shall flow with waters, and a fountain shall come forth of the house of the LORD, and shall water the valley of Shittim.

These are future events that coincide with Matthew 24 and Revelation 6:12-13; 8:12) which John said in Revelation 1:3 are future events. There are many prophecies in the Old Testament that are impossible to be placed completely in the time frame of 70 A.D. Isaiah 2:12 says, “the Lord shall set his hand again the second time to recover the remnant of his people, which shall be left, from Assyria, and from Egypt, and from Pathros, and from Cush, and from Elam, and from Shinar, and from Hamath, and from the islands of the sea.”

This isn't just from the East from Babylon but from all around the world as in 1948.

Amos prophesied “I will restore the fortunes of my people Israel, and they shall rebuild the ruined cities and inhabit them; they shall plant vineyards and drink their wine, and they shall make gardens and eat their fruit. I will plant them on their land, and they shall never again be uprooted out of the land that I have given them, says the LORD your God” (Amos 9:14-15).

This is a future event because after 70 A.D. the Jews were once again scattered around the world until they were regathered as a nation in 1948.

Dan 9:27 And he shall make a strong covenant with many for one week, and for half of the week he shall put an end to sacrifice and offering. And on the wing of abominations shall come one who makes desolate, until the decreed end is poured out on the desolator.

“This is clearly the end of the age, the second advent judgment, because the bringing in of righteousness did not occur seven years after the death of the Messiah, nor did the destruction of Jerusalem fit the seven-year period (occurring 37 years later). This is the future seven-year period that ends with sin’s final judgment and Christ’s reign of righteousness; i.e. the return of Christ and the establishment of his rule. These seven years constitute the seventieth week of Daniel. John MacArthur

The great divide is whether or not God is through with the Jewish people. We can agree to disagree on these things.
 
Breaking news - President Trump has just announced that Israel and Hamas have signed "Phase One" of the peace agreement. So does this start the Final Countdown to the Rapture?

We're leaving together, but still, it's farewell
And maybe we'll come back to Earth, who can tell?
I guess there is no one to blame
We're leaving ground (Leaving ground)
Will things ever be the same again?

It's the final countdown
The final countdown

[Verse 2]
Oh-oh, we're heading for Venus (Venus)
And still, we stand tall
'Cause maybe they've seen us
And welcome us all, yeah
With so many light years to go
And things to be found (To be found)
I'm sure that we'll all miss her so


final countdown europe video - Search Videos

Watch videos instantly on Bing—enjoy direct playback, discover related clips, and dive into trending content all in one place.
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Last edited:
Ransom said:
To come back to the assumption of the OP, that there's a gap between the 69th and 70th week of the prophecy in Daniel 9:20ff:

Daniel 9 begins with Daniel's prayer of confession. He has been reading Jeremiah, apparently, and knows that God has promised the exile will last 70 years (Dan. 9:1-2). Responding to this, he confesses Israel's sins, acknowedging that the exile is the just consequence for their actions. He appeals to God's compassion, asking him to forgive his people and restore Jerusalem, for his own name's sake (3-19).

Then, in response to this, he receives a visit from the angel Gabriel, who says that his pleas for mercy have been heard, and he has come to Daniel with God's answer (20-23).

"Seventy weeks" are decreed, which is generally understood to be "weeks" of years: seventy times seven, or 490 years. During this time, six things will be accomplished:

  • to finish the transgression;
  • to put an end to sin. These first two points presumably mean to deal with Israel's present rebellion and sinfulness, which led to their captivity;
  • to atone for iniquity. The first two points indicate simply the end of sinful activity, whereas this one promises reconciliation, the taking away of consequences;
  • to bring in everlasting righteousness. The first three points describe the taking away of the negative, but the last three are positive: in this case, not merely the removal of sin, but the addition of righteousness;
  • to seal both vision and prophet. Not a seal in the sense of shutting up, but to place a seal or stamp upon it, as if a signature, as a mark of authenticity;
  • to anoint the Most Holy.

This last point could mean the most holy place, i.e. the restoration and cleansing of the Temple; it could also mean an individual. The verses that follow strongly suggest that it is an individual that Gabriel intends, specifically, the Anointed One, or Messiah.

These actions take place during the seventy sevens.

The first "seven" and the next sixty-two "sevens" are obviously distinct--why else separate them?--but at the same time, little actualy distinguishes them. They mark the time between the decree and the coming of the Anointed One. During this time, as Daniel prayed for, Jerusalem will be rebuilt--with "squares [streets?] and moat" (25), though the time will be troubled.

In the first seven, we see the return of hope. The decree goes out from Cyrus, permitting the people to return to the Promised Land and rebuild their city. In the next 62, life goes on with the city restored, though the times are tumultuous: Israel has yet to experience the rest that God promised them on their land, which did not then, and has never since, known peace. But at least they have a home again.

By the end of sixty-nine "sevens," God's purposes are almost complete, and an Anointed One is obviously instrumental in bringing about those purposes. However, during the final "seven," he is "cut off" and "shall have nothing." The translation of the latter phrase is apparently difficult, with alternatives such as "unjustly," "with no one to take his part," and others having been suggested. It seems to me the sense is something like "for nothing," as though the Messiah died having seemingly accomplished nothing.

But it's obvious that this prophecy is overwhelmingly Messianic. Daniel, reading Jeremiah, petitions God for mercy; God's answer is that mercy will come, but not in Jeremiah's seventy years, but seventy times seven. Dating notable events such as Daniel's prayer, the decree to rebuild Jerusalem, and the coming of Christ are difficult and not known with accuracy. Probably the numbers are as much symbolic as they are calendrial. Nonetheless, from the time of Daniel to the time of Christ is roughly 500 years--pretty darn close.

Clearly the 70th "seven" is the climax of the prophecy. During this time, the Anointed One is "cut off." It is Christ, the Messiah, the Anointed One, who finally brings an end to sin and transgression. It is he who makes a strong covenant with his people, ratifying it with the sacrifice of his own blood (Luke 22:20). The people who put Jesus to death thought that was the end of the matter, as though he had accomplished nothing, but they were not yet aware that his death was cosmic in importance. It is he who puts an end to sacrifice: "there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins" (Heb. 10:26) because his sacrifice of himself was the final one.

Over and against the good work of Jesus Christ is the "prince who is to come," whose people shall "destroy the city and the sanctuary" (Dan. 9:26). This is an oblique reference to the Roman destruction of Jerusalem and the Temple in AD 70. Virtually every Christian realizes this is an act of divine judgment against Israel for rejecting his Messiah. If he has put an end to sacrifice, of what need is there of a Temple and a priesthood? Christ is the greater and eternal High Priest (Heb. 8:1). Worship is no longer focused on the Temple, but in his own Person. But for the "prince who is to come," an end is also decreed. Like the Assyrians who sacked the kingdom of Israel as the instrument of God's wrath, he, too, will in turn become the object of God's wrath in his own time for his wickedness.

The point of Daniel 9:20-27 is Messianic, not eschatological. The chapter begins with Daniel's plea for Israel; Gabriel's response must be understood in that context. Restoration and victory over sin will come: it will not be soon and it will not be easy, but it is certain, and it will be decisive.

Dispensationalist interpretation, on the other hand, all but ignores the immediate context and goes directly to the eschatology. Scofield's notes ignore the first 23 verses of Daniel 9 (apart from a note on Jeremiah's 70 years in verse 2), and he goes directly to the 70th week, which he takes for granted is delayed until the end of the church age, asserting only that it is "obviously an indeterminate period" (n. v. 26). It is, of course, obviously no such thing. The gap between the 69th and 70th weeks is postulated only to prop up the Dispensationalist assumption that the age of the church is a mystery never revealed to the prophets. On the contrary, Daniel 9:24-27 is a time prophecy, and asserting that the clock stops during a time prophecy renders the whole thing incoherent.
Click to expand...
I appreciate the time you took to lay your thoughts/exposition out.
 
An interesting article about the history of a pre and amillennialism (biased from a pre-millennial standpoint undoubtedly).
 
ALAYMAN said:
An interesting article about the history of a pre and amillennialism (biased from a pre-millennial standpoint undoubtedly).
Click to expand...
Jonathan Brentner also has an interesting article on amillennialism.

www.jonathanbrentner.com

The Unbiblical Basis of Amillennialism — Jonathan Brentner

Amillennialism dominated the church during the dark ages and persisted long after the Reformation. The reason for this rests with three factors that fueled this teaching for well over a thousand years and remain in place today, at least to some degree. It’s vital to our faith that we understand the
www.jonathanbrentner.com www.jonathanbrentner.com
 
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