Sigh

Ransom said:
Do these clowns not know who they're supposed to be arresting?
Click to expand...
That seems to be the primary concern. They go to construction sites and detain everyone who can't provide ID, and allegedly some who could. The problem is that a citizen is not required to carry their identification on their person. A basic part of being an American. Immigrants who have permission to be here (work permits, green cards) are required to have those documents with them. The way it's played out in several instances is that the individual has to prove their innocence and the legitimacy of their presence, exactly the opposite of how it is supposed to work.
 
subllibrm said:
That seems to be the primary concern. They go to construction sites and detain everyone who can't provide ID, and allegedly some who could. The problem is that a citizen is not required to carry their identification on their person. A basic part of being an American. Immigrants who have permission to be here (work permits, green cards) are required to have those documents with them. The way it's played out in several instances is that the individual has to prove their innocence and the legitimacy of their presence, exactly the opposite of how it is supposed to work.
Click to expand...
Detainment is a temporary, brief stop based on reasonable suspicion for investigation (like a Terry stop), where you're not free to leave but not formally charged, while arresting is a formal seizure of a person based on probable cause, leading to transport to a facility and formal charges, marking a more serious deprivation of liberty. The key difference lies in the legal standard (reasonable suspicion vs. probable cause) and the outcome (investigation vs. formal charging).

Stop and frisk is legal in the U.S. under the Fourth Amendment, established by the Supreme Court case Terry v. Ohio, but it requires officers to have reasonable suspicion, not probable cause, that a crime is occurring or about to occur, and a reasonable belief the person is armed and dangerous, allowing for a limited pat-down for weapons only, balancing police power with constitutional rights.

America has been invaded by millions of illegal aliens purposely brought in by Joe Biden and the Democratic party for the purpose of stealing elections. The invaders stick around together which even the most ignorant person knows. Those who broke our laws and crossed into our country should be deported as a matter of justice. You don’t stop an invasion by refusing to uphold the laws because of the fear of some human error.

Lastly, Sub is still as dishonest as the day is long. He has a constant drum beat of how awful Donald trump is and conflates Christians who publicly supported and voted for him as blind followers who can’t be involved in exercising the freedoms God gave them to participate in the political process. While Sub has nothing good to say about President Trump he unashamedly expresses how Jimmy Carter was “clear and honest about his faith” even though he opened the homosexual activist floodgates from the highest levels of government by inviting the sodomites to the White House and publicly legitimized that lifestyle even to the point of trying trying to force them into our schools and as scout masters in the BSA. Carter even blasphemed Jesus when in his attempt to be politically correct asserted that he believed Jesus would have approved of marriages between homosexuals.
 
Ransom said:
Of the material he posted above, which is incorrect?
Click to expand...
Tren de Aragua is one of the most violent gangs in America from Venezuela. The ICE Officers are targeting the most dangerous criminals and have no idea who those at work sites are armed and dangerous. The Democratic governors and mayors refuse to hold murderers, rapists and other violent criminals in custody for ICE to pick up so they must go out into the communities to apprehend these people while at the same time being harassed and attacked. Sanctuary cities are constantly releasing violent criminal illegal aliens out without bail so they can’t be held and deported by ICE. I might add that your country is coming apart by the seems from mass migration caused by your globalist Prime Minister. Maybe you should worry about your own country instead of how America is upholding her laws.
 
subllibrm said:
That seems to be the primary concern. They go to construction sites and detain everyone who can't provide ID, and allegedly some who could. The problem is that a citizen is not required to carry their identification on their person. A basic part of being an American. Immigrants who have permission to be here (work permits, green cards) are required to have those documents with them. The way it's played out in several instances is that the individual has to prove their innocence and the legitimacy of their presence, exactly the opposite of how it is supposed to work.
Click to expand...
i agree - we all have the right to be considered innocent until proven guilty.......

but haven;t you ever seen news reports of a school shooting?............ i;m sure you have..... they have been happening for almost 3 decades now and are broadcast all over television... ... .... .when a school shooting happens - sometimes even if nobody is actually shot....... everybody in the school - shopping mall - high rise building... or wherever the shooting happens - is subjected to a gross and unconstitutional humiliation ... .... they are ordered to come out with their hands in the air and walk past police ...with guns pointed at them... sometimes bodily searched..... .. ..and then stay under the eye of police until the shooter is identified or captured.... ....

and it;s usually all on a live special news report... and if you happen to be one of those school kids.. or mall shoppers...etc.. everybody who sees it on tv gets to watch you being treated like a criminal........

now.... . maybe i missed it - but i don;t ever remember seeing you complain.. "sigh"... or raise an objection to that... ... so why now?.....
 
Two things I am sure of:
1. ICE agents are trying to do their jobs and have overstepped their bounds. In this climate they are under a huge spotlight so everything they do is magnified. Christy Noem is inept and should have been fired 2 mishaps ago. At this point ‘allegedly’ is the word of every day and who knows?

2. Sub did not post this thread with a ‘sigh’ but with his usual obsessive compulsive “Trump is responsible for all wrongs” disorder.
Hallelujah!
 
Rand Paul was on Rogans podcast and said this about immigrants.

How to help the chaos.

If you came here illegally with a child you and the child will never become a full citizen. But kinda make them a half citizen. In that, they can stay here by registering. They can never vote or get any type of government support or assistance. They still will pay taxes and be able to work anywhere they want.

If someone comes illegally the above applies. If you have a child here that child becomes a full citizen and so on and so forth.

Rid the country of all violent criminals that are here illegally. But the ones that have been here 20 years on just got here under Biden in my opinion I think it’s a great alternative.
 
biscuit1953 said:
Tren de Aragua is one of the most violent gangs in America from Venezuela. The ICE Officers are targeting the most dangerous criminals and have no idea who those at work sites are armed and dangerous. The Democratic governors and mayors refuse to hold murderers, rapists and other violent criminals in custody for ICE to pick up so they must go out into the communities to apprehend these people while at the same time being harassed and attacked. Sanctuary cities are constantly releasing violent criminal illegal aliens out without bail so they can’t be held and deported by ICE. I might add that your country is coming apart by the seems from mass migration caused by your globalist Prime Minister. Maybe you should worry about your own country instead of how America is upholding her laws.
Click to expand...

Sub didn't say that. You did. Answer my question, not the one you hoped I would ask.
 
Ransom said:
Sub didn't say that. You did. Answer my question, not the one you hoped I would ask.
Click to expand...
He is just as dishonest as you were when you accused me of making up a quote by Sub and then when I proved it was true you still didn’t have the integrity to apologize for it.
 
biscuit1953 said:
He is just as dishonest as you were when you accused me of making up a quote by Sub and then when I proved it was true you still didn’t have the integrity to apologize for it.
Click to expand...

Still no support given for the assertion.

Claims made without evidence (like yours) may be dismissed without evidence.

Claim dismissed.
 
Ransom said:
Still no support given for the assertion.

Claims made without evidence (like yours) may be dismissed without evidence.

Claim dismissed.
Click to expand...
I have been consistent on this forum that I don’t believe Donald Trump is a born again Christian and didn’t vote for him for that reason. I voted for Trump as a vote against Communism and the radical transformation Obama pictured for America. There are others on this forum that have also expressed that belief and to slander everyone who supported Donald Trump as some sort of idol worshiper is dishonest at the very least. To praise a man like Jimmy Carter as someone who upheld Christian values in juxtaposition to Donald Trump is hypocrisy many times over.

When I voted for Marjorie Taylor Greene I was voting against taxpayer funds for abortion clinics, the mutilation of children by sick doctors, for freedom to practice religion without government interference, against men in women’s sports and locker rooms, and everything else the Democratic Party pushes. Spare me your virtue signaling.
 
voicecrying said:
Are police allowed to pull over motorists without a probable cause?
Click to expand...
Nope. Probable cause is an interesting topic when dealing with illegals.

When ICE visits a jobsite, probable cause is easy. The ones running are providing the probable cause.
 
FSSL said:
Nope. Probable cause is an interesting topic when dealing with illegals.

When ICE visits a jobsite, probable cause is easy. The ones running are providing the probable cause.
Click to expand...
So they have no right to detain non-runners that do not provide papers?
 
biscuit1953 said:
Detainment is a temporary, brief stop based on reasonable suspicion for investigation (like a Terry stop), where you're not free to leave but not formally charged, while arresting is a formal seizure of a person based on probable cause, leading to transport to a facility and formal charges, marking a more serious deprivation of liberty. The key difference lies in the legal standard (reasonable suspicion vs. probable cause) and the outcome (investigation vs. formal charging).

Stop and frisk is legal in the U.S. under the Fourth Amendment, established by the Supreme Court case Terry v. Ohio, but it requires officers to have reasonable suspicion, not probable cause, that a crime is occurring or about to occur, and a reasonable belief the person is armed and dangerous, allowing for a limited pat-down for weapons only, balancing police power with constitutional rights.

America has been invaded by millions of illegal aliens purposely brought in by Joe Biden and the Democratic party for the purpose of stealing elections. The invaders stick around together which even the most ignorant person knows. Those who broke our laws and crossed into our country should be deported as a matter of justice. You don’t stop an invasion by refusing to uphold the laws because of the fear of some human error.

Lastly, Sub is still as dishonest as the day is long. He has a constant drum beat of how awful Donald trump is and conflates Christians who publicly supported and voted for him as blind followers who can’t be involved in exercising the freedoms God gave them to participate in the political process. While Sub has nothing good to say about President Trump he unashamedly expresses how Jimmy Carter was “clear and honest about his faith” even though he opened the homosexual activist floodgates from the highest levels of government by inviting the sodomites to the White House and publicly legitimized that lifestyle even to the point of trying trying to force them into our schools and as scout masters in the BSA. Carter even blasphemed Jesus when in his attempt to be politically correct asserted that he believed Jesus would have approved of marriages between homosexuals.
Click to expand...
So what do you disagree with Mr. Trump on?
 
voicecrying said:
Are police allowed to pull over motorists without a probable cause?
Click to expand...
No. But to get back to the issue: what is "probable cause" during riots?

Are you comfortable with ICE chasing those who flee as establishing probable cause?
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top