I have been doing a bible-study with my pastor for about 6 months now. I have always studied the bible on my own and this is my first time I have actually been able to be able to ask every single bible question I have ever wanted to ask. I have been able to avoid many false teachers/pastors and movements like NAR due to watching many YouTube vidoes and reading books on these topics. In all my time studying and researching I have not heard of Tim Keller and was not familiar with the Gospel Coalition. My background is from an SDA perspective (not that I ever agreed with it). I just felt guilty for a long time attending "Sunday" church because of how indoctrinated my family was. Fast forward to today my pastor was sharing how much he liked Tim Keller and he likes his sermons and had recommended I should read his books and read his substack. I started reading The Reason for God by Tim Keller and Center Church. I noticed the particular left-leaning, progressive language in this book. I went down many rabbit holes trying to understand this thirdwayism way of approaching things and saw a lot of flaws which I won't get into right now. Is he what anyone would consider a good and faithful pastor that should be listened to? I have my opinion but what do y'all think that have maybe watched his sermons or read his materials what is your understanding of his impact on Christianity in general?
What do we think about Tim Keller?
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This is not a rebuke, so please don’t take it that way, but the content and target of your question is probably more suited to a different forum than the welcome forum.
Having said that, the general history of the strain of fundamentalism which existed here (and this is a generalization that might not hold for the current population of posters in the same proportion) would find Keller to be problematic. In a less critical analysis, he is still conservative by a normal theological critique. Given his context in New York City, that would definitely be all the more true for his audience.
This Reddit discussion probably gives you more of a robust and well rounded analysis and answer for your question.
There. Moved it to a more appropriate forum. Please, continue the discussion.
I found this article on Got Questions which is a resource I highly trust. I present this for your personal review.
Who was Timothy Keller? | GotQuestions.org
Who was Timothy Keller? What is Timothy Keller most known for? What influential books did Timothy Keller write?
www.gotquestions.org
I'd say that Tim Keller is somewhat of a mixed bag having some good things but also some "woke progressive" stuff that you probably have to watch out for. PCA Presbyterians are typically good folk, theologially conservative, and steer clear of all the "Restorationist" stuff I was speaking of in your introductory thread. For PCA Presbyterians, it does not get any better than RC Sproul but unfortunately he is no longer with us. Then again, neither is Tim Keller. Ligonier Ministries has some really good resources
Thank you I wasn't 100% sure where to post it.
Well I am guessing you might tell me to stay away from Church of Christ then? That is where I have been attending for a little while. I've been reading many books about CoC and their history. Like I said it's been hard to find a church. I have attended so many.
Yes! YES! I would ABSOLUTELY tell you to stay from the Church of Christ! They are Restorationist with a "Capital R!"
Some "Restorationist" thinking is good but Paul says "Prove all things, hold fast to that which is good (1 Th 5:21). The first thing you need to ask is "Prove what?" We prove the things we have received and learned from others. The Reformers mantra was "Sola Scriptura" (the scriptures alone) meaning that the scriptures are the sole, final authority for all matters of faith and practice. What it does not mean is that you discard everything else that has been taught throughout Church history and start over from scratch! This is what the Restorationists have done and this is where they fell in the ditch where they find themselves! The creeds and confessions serve as "Guard Rails" to keep you out of the ditch but what is written in these creeds, you need to study and examine with the scriptures to see if these things are so! In other words, we need to practice "Sola Scriptura" and not "Solo Scriptura!"
What would you say is wrong with CoC? Specifically.
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A huge issue is Baptismal regeneration, meaning you must be baptized in order to be saved. Also, some teach that the Holy Spirit is an impersonal force, not a Person of the Godhead/Trinity. There’s more, but that’s a serious start.
I’ve asked some of these same questions about the CoC. I’ve never been to one of their church services before, but one of their colleges is a prospective school for my daughter. There are a couple other colleges we’re looking at also.
The no-instruments in church thing is a little weird to me, but I wouldn’t call it a deal breaker. I know they believe a person must be baptized in order to be saved, which is not what I was taught growing up in a Baptist church. They also don’t seem to have very good “security of salvation” stances. All that said, I think they still offer a much more wholesome environment than a traditional state college, and they seem to be academically solid.
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Welcome to the forum. Here are some specific quotes from Alexander Campbell, founder of the Churches of Christ, which teach a form of baptismal regeneration, that baptism is essential to salvation:
"I proceed to show that we have the most explicit proof that God forgives sins for the name's sake of his Son, or when the name of Jesus Christ is named upon us in immersion: that in, and by, the act of immersion, or soon as our bodies are put under water, at that very instant our former or old sins are all washed away."
"I am bold, therefore, to affirm, that every one of them who, in the belief of what the apostle spoke, was immersed, did, in the very instant in which he was put under water, receive the forgiveness of his sins, and the gift of the holy Spirit. If to, then who will not concur with me in saying, that Christian immersion is THE GOSPEL IN WATER?"
This is what is still taught in the Churches of Christ today. When I lived in the village of Cooksville, Illinois, I was a friend of the family of the Church of Christ preacher, and we had some friendly discussions and fellowship, but I never accepted their beliefs on baptism being essential to salvation. I trust that you will not, either.
There are many other issues with the Churches of Christ. I have a big problem with a movement that teaches that the true Gospel was completely lost for 18 centuries, and not "Restored" until the Campbellites came along in 1827. Get back to us if you have any more questions - we are here to help.
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Regarding Tim Keller: he was basically a good man, I suppose. I read one of his books and it had some valuable insights. But his teachings should be approached with discernment and caution. He promoted evolution and I would disagree with him there. You are to be commended for your cautious evaluation of Keller and your willingness to identify "flaws" in his teaching. All too many of us, as Christians, are prone to becoming blind, uncritical followers of the current celebrity preachers, and it's good that you are not like that. For further research, check out these web sites:
Tim Keller: Dangerously Influential
Dr. Timothy J. Keller is one of today's most influential religious leaders, and one of the most dangerous.
www.teachingtheword.org
The Troubling Legacy of Tim Keller - Protestia
It is not unloving nor hypocritical to say that we are praying for comfort for Tim Keller’s family and church, and at the same time striving for clarity and open discussion regarding his teaching, which will endure in his absence. Those who reflexively claim it is unloving or inappropriate to...
protestia.com
The Trinity Foundation - Workers of the Church, Unite!: The Radical Marxist Foundation of Tim Keller's Social Gospel
When Bill de Blasio, the new mayor of New York City was running for office in 2013, he acknowledged that he has been largely influenced by the Marxist Liberation
www.trinityfoundation.org
I do believe you need to be baptized to be a Christian and I always thought everyone thought that because Jesus got baptized so it was a given. I don't see that as an issue. Because that is part of obedience and regeneration. Though I know many that have still fallen away after baptism. So I thought this was a semantics issue. Because I didn't get baptized til I was in my 30s and I strongly believe I didn't have salvation until I got baptized and many Christians agreed with that fact before I ever heard of CoC which I only knew they existed this year. But I agreed with this my whole life.
I was out of time and had to jump off but I was confident that others would chime in and Alayman did not disappoint did he?
Baptismal regeneration (Baptism required for salvation) is the #1 offending point. Therefore, they have significantly perverted the gospel message so for this reason alone, I would say you should stay away from them.
It was their restorationist approach (No Creed but Christ) that brought them to their position and it would be beneficial to examine their flawed approach to biblical hermeneutics that brought them to such a conclusion.
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Not a fan.
Baptism is important and significant but it is not the baptism that saves you. Baptism is the visible, tangible identification with Christ and his church.
Look at Paul's discussion of circumcision in Romans. Abraham's saving faith preceded his circumcision. Circumcision was, like baptism, a sign identifying with the faith one professes. I am over-simplifying here but you can study it out for yourself. I am certain you will.
Hmm yes I have heard of this criticism but I do agree Christians need to be baptized. I do not think that rises to the level of heretical or false like the SDA church is for example. To be fair I have watched the debates against CoC so I have exposed myself to all the criticisms against them and watched Cultish on YouTube which also criticizes them.
We are jumping all over the place but I am guessing you mean you are not a fan of Tim Keller, right? Neither am (or was) I.
No I'm not. It's been a big problem in the church though I think is this "thirdwayism" type of thinking. I just call it fence sitting. Im alarmed of the lack of discernment how people are tribal when it comes to pastors or teachers or ancient church fathers. The person I follow is Christ because people have agendas and in this day and age are afraid to be truly conservative. Apparently it's controversial to not want female pastors or to say the man should be the head of the household. Oh and apparently it's also normal to believe in evolution and call yourself Christian because we can now pick and chose the parts we like. Oh and if you are a Chrustiam defending your faith that's "judgmental". Apologetics are judgemental.
