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As I've been fond of telling other fundies for years, "is too!" is not an argument.
Interesting reformed church visit today, a report card.
- Thread starter ALAYMAN
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As I've been fond of telling other fundies for years, "is too!" is not an argument.
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When you ass/u/me something, you make an ass out of you and me. You started out with the assumptions. I gave you the counter assumptions. Maybe you should practice what you preach.
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I didn't make any assumptions. I identified your assumptions.
You then made Assumption #3: that I believe the opposite of your Assumptions #1 and 2.
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churches have been mixing entertainment with worship for so long now they have lost the ability to tell the difference......
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Well, there's the rub. As I've said in the past, there are certain musical genres that wouldn't be suitable for worship. Since worship music is congregational, it needs to be not too technically complex, of a musical range suitable for the average person to sing, and quiet enough that we can hear each other. "Harder" genres like punk, industrial, and metal don't meet those criteria. (They're also fairly aggressive and angry, so incongruous with what should be a joyous and celebratory experience.)
But I don't personally mind metal, though it's not all my cup of tea (definitely not the more extreme forms like the aforementioned Enoch), and I have a few Christian metal CDs. They're fine as entertainment (most contemporary Christian music existing not for corporate worship, but as an alternative to worldly entertainment).
As for what is "God honoring," I don't get into debates about what mechanical sounds, tones, and chords "honour God." Without a particle of Scripture or theology to support them, it comes down to "well, I don't like it, so neither does God."
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"I know it when I see it"—Potter Stewart
As far as “mechanical sounds, tones, and chords”, just like ABCDEFG is amoral, string them into sentences and they suddenly take on a moral tone. Same with music.
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But is CCCGABCBAG CBAGAFEDC more moral if it's played on a pipe organ or an electric guitar?
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Where in scripture does it say the non-elect are paying for their sins in hell?
My understanding is that hell is the consequence for not having faith in Christ.
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Much damage has been done to the cause of the gospel by telling the world that they will go to hell “because they don’t believe in Jesus.” It seems unreasonable that God would eternally damn them for not believing something. Ray Comfort explains it this way:
If a man jumps out of a plane without a parachute, he will perish because he transgressed the law of gravity. Had he put on a parachute, he would have been saved. In one sense, he perished because he didn’t put on the parachute. But the primary reason he died was because he broke the law of gravity. If a sinner refuses to trust in Jesus Christ when he passes through the door of death, he will perish. This isn’t because he refused to trust the Savior, but because he transgressed the Law of God. Had he “put on the Lord Jesus Christ” (Romans 13:14), he would have been saved; but because he refused to repent, he will suffer the full consequences of his sin. Sin is not “failing to believe in Jesus.” Sin is “transgression of the Law” (1 John 3:4).
A few years ago we were discussing on this forum the primary and secondary causes of people’s eternal destination on how people’s eternal destination is decided by a sovereign God, but eternal punishment is still tied to one’s sins. Ransom gave the illustration that if you ask a prison inmate, “Why are you here? And he answered, Because the judge sentenced me to 20 years in prison and the governor won’t pardon me.” You’re not getting a straight answer. There is more to his story.
Rom 9:13 As it is written, Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated.
Rom 9:14 What shall we say then? Is there unrighteousness with God? God forbid.
Rom 9:15 For he saith to Moses, I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion.
Rom 9:20 Nay but, O man, who art thou that repliest against God? Shall the thing formed say to him that formed it, Why hast thou made me thus?
Rom 9:21 Hath not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump to make one vessel unto honour, and another unto dishonour?
Rom 9:22 What if God, willing to shew his wrath, and to make his power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath fitted to destruction:
Rom 9:23 And that he might make known the riches of his glory on the vessels of mercy, which he had before prepared unto glory,
Paul clearly teaches that God receives glory in his wrath as well as his mercy. God allows some vessels to incur the just penalty of their sin. God doesn’t make men sinful, but he leaves them in the sin they have chosen. Most non-Calvinists vew election in a negative light, however, if God did not choose some for salvation, then none would be saved (Rom 3:10-12). Election shows the grace of God. Going back to God holding men responsible for their own sins, if the clay pot repents, its destination is changed (Jer 18:6-10).