A Denial of the Kenosis?

[Ransom]

Not if we fall at the feet of Jesus.  He has covered our shame.  Like I tell my kids,  our motivation should be love for God and others,  not guilt,  shame, and fear.

So let's suppose I raped your family.

Well, that earned me a negative karma point. Though it's telling that rsc2a didn't tell me why; his comment was merely "..."

I guess it would be self-refuting for him to tell me I should be ashamed of myself.

 

[Ransom]

Word.

Insert trolling statement here.

 

[ALAYMAN]

You explicitly stated that nudity is wrong because the Romans used it to shame and degrade Jesus.

There is a reason why that sort of shaming was/is effective, because of public awareness that public nudity is a sharing of intimacy that is reserved for certain kind of special relationships.

 

[The Rogue Tomato]

Still waiting for someone to show me in scripture where the word "shame" is associated with Jesus, especially with respect to being naked. 

 

[praise_yeshua]

And I haven't said otherwise.  Maybe the proper answer is for you to tell your MODERATOR, "stop talking about raping someone's wife and kids". But that might require a bit of objectivity and fairness that has vanished here.

Word.

Nothing "vanished". You're both being silly if you think it has. FSSL and Ransom are no different than they have ever been.

Mater.... do you really believe that?

 

[rsc2a]

Case in point: were I to walk thru Nashville naked I should feel shame because I am violating my neighbors...

Not violating one's neighbors is one of many good reasons why one should not do this.  But the motivation should be love of others,  not shame.

 

[rsc2a]

And I haven't said otherwise.  Maybe the proper answer is for you to tell your MODERATOR, "stop talking about raping someone's wife and kids". But that might require a bit of objectivity and fairness that has vanished here.

I wouldn't have went that far either, but it is obvious that he is not trying to incite your passions as much as demonstrate reduction ad absurdum.

And if TRT had "supposed" he was raping FSSL'S wife and daughters,  he'd have a lifetime ban.

 

[FSSL]

FSSL: You have completely avoided the fact that the words "humiliation" and "shame" are used of Jesus on the cross.

Rsc2a: This is known as "making things up."

........

I must have missed your acknowledgment.

 

[Ransom]

And if TRT had "supposed" he was raping FSSL'S wife and daughters,  he'd have a lifetime ban.

And you wouldn't be concerned about it unless it was your own ox being gored, which in this case, it is, demonstrating that you are not sincerely concerned, but merely a concern troll.

 

[rsc2a]

FSSL: You have completely avoided the fact that the words "humiliation" and "shame" are used of Jesus on the cross.

Rsc2a: This is known as "making things up."

........

I must have missed your acknowledgment.

You missed the second post in the thread?

 

[FSSL]

if TRT had "supposed" he was raping FSSL'S wife and daughters,  he'd have a lifetime ban.

"There's no condemnation..."

 

[praise_yeshua]

if TRT had "supposed" he was raping FSSL'S wife and daughters,  he'd have a lifetime ban.

"There's no condemnation..."

LOL.... he can't see past the nose on the end of his face.

You know.... everyone is GOOD..... except for those who disagree with him.

 

[Ransom]

Suppose away

If you say so.

If I raped your family, I should feel no shame or guilt because Jesus already paid for it. True or false?

Still waiting. Should be an easy question to answer, right rsc2a?

 

[rsc2a]

if TRT had "supposed" he was raping FSSL'S wife and daughters,  he'd have a lifetime ban.

"There's no condemnation..."

I was just going to ignore Ransom from now on,  but with you condoning this kind of thing,  just go ahead and close my account.

And, to think,  you used to be reasonable...

 

[The Rogue Tomato]

I'll say this again, since only rsc2a seems to get it so far:

One can only feel shame if there's something wrong that is exposed.  Jesus is/was perfect. 

Even if one makes the argument that Jesus felt shame on the cross because He was made sin for us (and therefore sin was exposed through Him in shame), the logical outcome of that is that our sin was erased in Him, and we no longer have any reason to feel shame.  That's why there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus. 

The only argument left against nakedness in film, photography, personal nakedness, etc., is one of IFB man-made rules.  I'm talking about just normal NAKEDNESS, not attempts to incite sexual lust, which people can do with all their clothes on, too. 

 

[praise_yeshua]

I'll say this again, since only rsc2a seems to get it so far:

One can only feel shame if there's something wrong that is exposed.  Jesus is/was perfect. 

Even if one makes the argument that Jesus felt shame on the cross because He was made sin for us (and therefore sin was exposed through Him in shame), the logical outcome of that is that our sin was erased in Him, and we no longer have any reason to feel shame.  That's why there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus. 

The only argument left against nakedness in film, photography, personal nakedness, etc., is one of IFB man-made rules.  I'm talking about just normal NAKEDNESS, not attempts to incite sexual lust, which people can do with all their clothes on, too.

Normal nakedness incites lust in man. Maybe not you, but certainly others.

You've gone to extremes to support the idea that nakedness is okay since it doesn't affect you personally. You're being purposely naive in applying your situation to everyone else.

 

[praise_yeshua]

if TRT had "supposed" he was raping FSSL'S wife and daughters,  he'd have a lifetime ban.

"There's no condemnation..."

I was just going to ignore Ransom from now on,  but with you condoning this kind of thing,  just go ahead and close my account.

And, to think,  you used to be reasonable...

You can send the delete request yourself.

Its telling you demand they do it for you. You're just trying to prove your point.

 

[FSSL]

I was just going to ignore Ransom from now on,  but with you condoning this kind of thing,  just go ahead and close my account.

And, to think,  you used to be reasonable...

I don't close or delete accounts... unless they are spammers. See this sticky: http://www.fundamentalforums.org/welcome-to-fundamentalforums-org/forum-rules-and-general-information/msg125615/#msg125615

Once the passions subside, you will be back and we don't have to make another account. I call it the "Timmy effect"

 

[The Rogue Tomato]

I'll say this again, since only rsc2a seems to get it so far:

One can only feel shame if there's something wrong that is exposed.  Jesus is/was perfect. 

Even if one makes the argument that Jesus felt shame on the cross because He was made sin for us (and therefore sin was exposed through Him in shame), the logical outcome of that is that our sin was erased in Him, and we no longer have any reason to feel shame.  That's why there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus. 

The only argument left against nakedness in film, photography, personal nakedness, etc., is one of IFB man-made rules.  I'm talking about just normal NAKEDNESS, not attempts to incite sexual lust, which people can do with all their clothes on, too.

Normal nakedness incites lust in man. Maybe not you, but certainly others.

You've gone to extremes to support the idea that nakedness is okay since it doesn't affect you personally. You're being purposely naive in applying your situation to everyone else.

Been there, done that, read the multiple threads that came to the same conclusion.  The guilt of lust is solely laid on the person who lusts.  You can't blame it on someone's nakedness. 

 

[ALAYMAN]

And if TRT had "supposed" he was raping FSSL'S wife and daughters,  he'd have a lifetime ban.

Maybe, but doubt it. 

I said I would not have went that far to prove a point either, but his rhetoric is effective at showing the frustration people have with your methods of argumentation.  Nobody expects Ransom to act upon, or even legitimately consider his hyperbolic suggestion, but the impact of his point, when stripped of its' offensiveness, is powerful enough to all who understand what it's like to try to get you to reason with a plausible argument.