A Denial of the Kenosis?

FSSL

FSSL

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The Rogue Tomato said:
Wait, Jesus felt humiliated?  Where does the Bible say that?  They may have TRIED to humiliate him, but I don't see anywhere in the Bible where Jesus was humiliated.
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Kenosis means that Jesus emptied Himself. He experience the emotions and suffering of mankind.

We are being told by a couple of posters (one quoted above) that Christians who feel shame and humiliation are not dealing with their sin.

How about Jesus? He was beaten and humiliated. Certain posters lack a fundamental understanding of the Jesus they say they believe.
 
So Jesus suffered humiliation when He became our sin. Certain posters seem to lack a fundamental understanding of substitutionary atonement.
 
Why are you making a division between His work on the cross and His atonement?
 
I'm not.  I just believe Him when He said,  "It is finished." But go ahead and keep feeling guilt and shame.

You prefer law. I prefer grace.  You prefer slavery.  I prefer freedom. Easy enough.
 
FSSL said:
Why are you making a division between His work on the cross and His atonement?
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Notice the NUT didn't use the words "Penal Substitutionary"
 
rsc2a said:
I'm not.  I just believe Him when He said,  "It is finished." But go ahead and keep feeling guilt and shame.

You prefer law. I prefer grace.  You prefer slavery.  I prefer freedom. Easy enough.
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You did.

You prefer a grace defined by your own "theology." Who is the real slave?
 
FSSL said:
rsc2a said:
I'm not.  I just believe Him when He said,  "It is finished." But go ahead and keep feeling guilt and shame.

You prefer law. I prefer grace.  You prefer slavery.  I prefer freedom. Easy enough.
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You did.

You prefer a grace defined by your own "theology." Who is the real slave?
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The one insisting that people feel shame?
 
Without going into great detail......The English word Humiliation basically has its roots in the word "humbled". 

Php 2:8  And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross.

I don't know if you can make the full case that "humiliation" was part of the process of "death" in Christ Jesus on the cross. I think it might be implied in both the "shame" and "humbling" process.... but I wouldn't fault someone for objecting to the use of the word.

 
Jesus was put to shame on the cross. Sinless. Wholly sanctified... Yet humiliated for our sakes.

Before you construct a theology of "freedom," you may want to consider the root of true freedom.
 
praise_yeshua said:
.... but I wouldn't fault someone for objecting to the use of the word.
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Why not?

It is their insistence that shame and humiliation are evil. That one can be so sanctified in this life that they would have no shame walking down the streets naked.

It is false and built on a silly notion.
 
"That is not how you feel!  Let me correct you about your own thoughts and motivations,  you liar! "
 
Back to the simple wowing that you never answered: why should you feel shame for being naked?
 
rsc2a said:
Back to the simple wowing that you never answered: why should you feel shame for being naked?
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"Back to another topic because I am stymied."

For the same reason Jesus felt shame and humiliation... the shame of public nakedness is an effect of this sin-cursed world. It is not difficult to understand.
 
Simple enough then...you think Jesus followers aren't restored from the effects of sin.  So much for eternal life...
 
And you STILL haven't answered the question...

...why should we feel shame? God is not arbitrary. We shouldn't kill because it harms others.  We shouldn't practice gay sex because it violates God's created order. We should treat other humans with dignity because they are image bearers. Why then should we feel shame?
 
rsc2a said:
Simple enough then...you think Jesus followers aren't restored from the effects of sin.  So much for eternal life...
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See... this is where you and Tomato get absurd. Jesus was humiliated. A new concept to you both. He was never restored from the effects of sin on earth. He ENDURED the effects of sin and suffered public humiliation.

        He was led like a sheep to the slaughter,
        and as a lamb before its shearer is silent,
        so he did not open his mouth.
      In his humiliation he was deprived of justice.
        Who can speak of his descendants?
        For his life was taken from the earth.? (Ac 8:32?33)

 
rsc2a said:
Why then should we feel shame?
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For the very same reason Jesus was shamed... the effects of sin that can only be ENDURED, not OVERCOME in this world.
 
FSSL said:
rsc2a said:
Why then should we feel shame?
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For the very same reason Jesus was shamed... the effects of sin that can only be ENDURED, not OVERCOME in this world.
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Well, now we've moved into full blown heresy. 
 
FSSL said:
rsc2a said:
Simple enough then...you think Jesus followers aren't restored from the effects of sin.  So much for eternal life...
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See... this is where you and Tomato get absurd. Jesus was humiliated. A new concept to you both. He was never restored from the effects of sin on earth. He ENDURED the effects of sin and suffered public humiliation.

        He was led like a sheep to the slaughter,
        and as a lamb before its shearer is silent,
        so he did not open his mouth.
      In his humiliation he was deprived of justice.
        Who can speak of his descendants?
        For his life was taken from the earth.? (Ac 8:32?33)
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Great...your savior is still dead.  Praise God mine isn't.
 
"Jesus was stripped naked when the Romans murdered him,  so nakedness is wrong."

"Jesus had his beard plucked out when the Romans murdered him,  so depilation is wrong."
 
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