A KJVO method of interpretation...

subllibrm said:
So cut and paste an answer from there. By now you must have realized that we aren't going to go there and boost your click count.

Honestly, the cut and paste would be huge. I am not trying to increase click counts or something. The information I refer to is even published through google books, so if you really want to know, it is there also.
 
If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough.

Albert Einstein
 
"To argue with a person who had renounced the use of reason is like administering medicine to the dead." - Thomas Paine
 
rsc2a said:
"To argue with a person who had renounced the use of reason is like administering medicine to the dead." - Thomas Paine

Of course he had never heard of KJVOs as they had not yet been invented, but he described the mental disorder of KJVOs perfectly.

Even the unsaved can prophecy, remember the donkey?
 
rsc2a said:
"To argue with a person who had renounced the use of reason is like administering medicine to the dead." - Thomas Paine

Why are you quoting a leading Infidel?
 
FSSL said:
Because you would not accept the same truth when it came from Solomon in Ecclesiastes.

"The more the words, the less the meaning, and how does that profit anyone?" Ecclesiastes

Your "wisdom" is vastly different to what the Scripture actually states:

Ec 6:11 "Seeing there be many things that increase vanity, what is man the better?"
Ec 5:3b "and a fool's voice is known by multitude of words."

And again,

1 Tim 1:7 "Desiring to be teachers of the law; understanding neither what they say, nor whereof they affirm."
Ps 82:5 "They know not, neither will they understand; they walk on in darkness: all the foundations of the earth are out of course."

This is an apt description of your side, where there is no acknowledging at all of the facts that Infidelity (Modernism) has had any impact on the way you view textual criticism, translation and interpretation.
 
bibleprotector said:
Your "wisdom" is vastly different to what the Scripture actually states:

Ec 6:11 "Seeing there be many things that increase vanity, what is man the better?"
Ec 5:3b "and a fool's voice is known by multitude of words."

I am not the one who is unable to succintly present my approach to interpreting.
 
FSSL said:
I am not the one who is unable to succintly present my approach to interpreting.

This is clearly a diversion from acknowledging the influence of Infidel thinking which has leavened much of reformed, evangelical, fundamentalist and pentecostal thinking in regards to theology today.

Peter Masters, a Calvinist, has rightly highlighted that since the 1960s “a radical departure from once orthodox teaching has occurred” in Bible interpretation. A silent “revolution has taken place in so many sound seminaries and Bible colleges all over the world in recent decades concerning the interpretation of the Scriptures. Why should [churches] suspect that well known bastions of the Truth would be furnishing the minds of aspiring pastors with sub-scriptural ideas about interpretation? Yet it is happening. It is a painful fact that views evolved from liberal thinking (and opposed in times past by Victorian evangelicals) are now authoritatively taught even at fine seminaries, creating a tremendous gulf between the modern approach (as we shall call it) and the methods followed by the overwhelming majority of sound preachers since the time of the Reformation. ... The new philosophy of Bible interpretation started to enter faithful Bible colleges in the 1960s”.
 
We are now on post 56. You claim to hold to the Reformation method of interpretation... please define that and how you hold to that.
 
What is funny is that Bibleprotector cites Peter Masters. What Bibleprotector does not know is that the seminary, where I was trained, hosted Peter Masters and he (as well as Tyndale House, Peter Williams) are quite on board with our seminary.

Bibleprotector... without defining modernism and reformation interpretative methods, you are not convincing.
 
FSSL said:
We are now on post 56. You claim to hold to the Reformation method of interpretation... please define that and how you hold to that.

I don't think I specifically stated that, but rather, argued for following a believing Protestant method of interpretation as derived from the Reformation, in regards to actually believing the Scripture. I am opposed to the modernistic method which tries to change the Scripture by reading in different meanings to words, and tries to read in a present constructed view of the past. I accept that the same Holy Ghost who inspired is present today for His people for their comprehension.
 
FSSL said:
What is funny is that Bibleprotector cites Peter Masters. What Bibleprotector does not know is that the seminary, where I was trained, hosted Peter Masters and he (as well as Tyndale House, Peter Williams) are quite on board with our seminary.

Yes, of course, we all reject Higher Criticism, Liberal Theology and gross Modernism, but the fact remains that the leavening effects of these views have been manifest throughout Protestantism, e.g. in the Chicago Statements, etc. The taint of lower case "m" modernism is clearly manifest in the three Chicago Statements.

So likewise, when John MacArthur hosts his Shepherds Conference 2015, even though I am sure they will uphold the Inspiration of Scripture, its inerrancy and infallibility and so on, they will not reject or repent of the leaven of Infidelity which has come among them.

The only solution is a New Reformation, part of which is the rejection of modernistic interpretative methods and the general doubt concerning God's ability and promise to work perfectly today, including in regards to the transmission preservation of Scripture. As long as your side argues that we cannot fully know, cannot fully agree, cannot fully attain, you are not yet on the right way of thinking in these areas.
 
I see that your attempt to bash our "modernism" with Peter Masters comments fell flat.

You now admit that you fight for a New Reformation. We had our Calvins and Luthers. You have your Ruckmans and Riplingers.

Your reformation is hardly distinguishable from the Vulgate-only RCC. In fact, your main players might even have out done the RCC in its moral controversies.

Why are you not willing to succinctly provide us what your interpretative approach looks like?
 
FSSL said:
I see that your attempt to bash our "modernism" with Peter Masters comments fell flat.

The point is that Infidelity is being recognised by your own side as becoming pervasive.

The problem is that there are many who are against Infidelity (Higher Criticism, Liberal Theology and Modernism) who have still been affected to some degree with modernistic errors. For example, how they approach the transmission of the Scripture or their rules of interpretation may be coloured by modernistic bias which has subtly crept in.

FSSL said:
You now admit that you fight for a New Reformation. We had our Calvins and Luthers.

A New Reformation, as you well know, is not the rejection of the Reformers, but a re-establishment and building upon their foundation. The Calvins and the Luthers were vital for where Bible believers stand today. I advocate REMEMBERING the Protestant truth.

FSSL said:
You have your Ruckmans and Riplingers.

A totally false accusation on many grounds, particularly, that a proper use of the KJB comes from the Reformation, and that proper doctrine continues today. Even though there may be a profound difference between Anglicans, Baptists and Pentecostals, that's nothing like the difference between orthodox Protestant doctrines and actually believing in God's word as opposed to the trend of modernism. Modernism is really anti-Reformation.

FSSL said:
Your reformation is hardly distinguishable from the Vulgate-only RCC.

Not only is that a false accusation, but that is also a propagandistic misrepresentation of present day Roman Catholicism, which at Vatican 2, upheld the idea of modern versions.

FSSL said:
In fact, your main players might even have out done the RCC in its moral controversies.

Who are my main players? Clearly, you are attempting to smear. The doctrine of advancing Protestantism can hardly be said to be of those "main players", since there are a number of KJBOs who deny that they are "Protestants", but claim to be of some line of Baptists tracing back to the Early Church. As for the moral controversies you allude to, I plainly do not know what you mean. But it would be dishonest to tar all with the same brush. There have been bad people called Calvinists, Baptists and whatever. That does not mean that all are bad people. I am neither a Baptist nor a Calvinist, but those doctrinal differences to mine are less severe than the current blight of Modernism which is affecting churches and Christians everywhere.

FSSL said:
Why are you not willing to succinctly provide us what your interpretative approach looks like?

I don't think there is some highly polished formalised mechanical method of interpreting Scripture. I believe there are right ways to read and use it. I think that rationalistic approach is only detrimental because it is starting from an extraneous source. I am, however, pro-reason and pro-order, but under ordinance of God, not by some humanistic assertion.
 
bibleprotector said:
The point is that Infidelity is being recognised by your own side as becoming pervasive.

I am not sure you want to use the term "infidelity" while promoting KJVOism.

"My side" IS the same side Peter Masters is on. In fact, you are not on the same side. So, why quote from him?

The problem is that there are many who are against Infidelity (Higher Criticism, Liberal Theology and Modernism) who have still been affected to some degree with modernistic errors.

Whatever "modernism" means... we are still waiting to see your private definition.

A totally false accusation on many grounds, particularly, that a proper use of the KJB comes from the Reformation

KJVOism did not come from the Reformation.

First, the KJV was not established in the Reformation.. it came after. The Reformers did not use the KJV... it didn't exist. Second, even the translators rejected an ONLY teaching. Third, Yes. Ruckman and Riplinger ARE the preeminent ones in your KJVO movement.

.... propagandistic... smear...

Ruckman and Riplinger. Smear? Well... then either own it or give excuse for it....

As for the moral controversies you allude to, I plainly do not know what you mean....A

... or claim ignorance... forgot that possibility.

Ruckman and Riplinger are "the face" of KJVOism and that cannot be denied. KJVOs are pleased when they get a mention from either.

But it would be dishonest to tar all with the same brush.

What does that term "modernist" mean again?

I don't think there is some highly polished formalised mechanical method of interpreting Scripture. I believe there are right ways to read and use it. I think that rationalistic approach is only detrimental because it is starting from an extraneous source. I am, however, pro-reason and pro-order, but under ordinance of God, not by some humanistic assertion.

well then... you should have said this at the very beginning. All of the materials you said you had can be boiled down to that?

We understand... You are "winging it!" You DON'T have a reformation-style approach to interpreting the Scripture. When you reject a grammatical-historical approach, you reject the practice of the Reformers.
 
I have traveled rather extensively (and still do) throughout the US. The pervasive problem in evangelical churches today is NOT what version they use... the problem is that they do not use ANY version.

Pastors... IFB, Conservative, Evangelical... whatever label you place on it... Typically do not trust their KJVs, NIVs, ESVs... Promoting KJVOism WILL NOT change this. In fact, many KJVOs I meet don't even bring a Bible to church.
 
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