Adrian Peterson.....corporal punishment revisited.

The Rogue Tomato said:
In General Practice, Corporal Punishment should not involve Private Parts.

Deu 25:11  "When men fight with one another and the wife of the one draws near to rescue her husband from the hand of him who is beating him and puts out her hand and seizes him by the private parts,
Deu 25:12  then you shall cut off her hand. Your eye shall have no pity.
 
ALAYMAN said:
subllibrm said:
The Rogue Tomato said:
In General Practice, Corporal Punishment should not involve Private Parts.

Captain, I believe we have had a Major breakthrough.

True enough, but unless that was intentional, some latitude should be allowed.

I believe I read where he said he felt bad about accidently doing this. I don't believe it was intentional. Either way, its rather odd that a true Christian wouldn't see some grey area in the matter. Its rather obvious that those that claim "tolerance" or "diversity" often quickly abandon it when dealing with something they disagree with.
 
rsc2a said:
Replying to a comment you made to another poster on a public forum isn't even a matter of honesty, thus my statement (which I will repeat here) that you evidently don't know what the meaning of the word is.

Honesty is displayed in many ways. You're the one that quoted my conversation with another just as if I had said it to you. I didn't. Are you just trying to be the big mouth standing the back the room yelling at everyone?

I could go on...in fact, if you weren't completely ignoring the fact that the people of God are a community, it would be beyond obvious.

You're not in my community. Yes. You might be a child of the King. That is not mine to judge. However, the commonality we have in Christ does not give you the right to stick your nose in where it doesn't belong.

By the way, how's your sex life going? Are you getting any? Is the wife fulfilling her side of the arraignment? I know the average man gets a little cranky or down right evil when he's having problems in the sex department. I wouldn't want that to show up in the global community and EVERYONE have to deal with your crappy attitude and anger issues.

See. I can stick my nose where it doesn't belong just as well as you can. 

Are you seriously trying to equate accidents during horseplay with beating a child?

No. I was equating the result. Same result. A child gets hurt. I know a man who ran over his child with a riding mower. Cut their legs all to pieces. They said it was an accident. I might would say the man was neglient to the point he abused his child with his stupidity. You see one thing. I see the other. The fact I "whoop" my kids has nothing to do with you. Stay out of my business.

And, I have left marks on my child...during a spanking. It happened once, and you know what my response was: a broken, contrite heart; a reconsideration with how I discipline my kids; a lengthy apology to the child, their siblings, and my wife; and a recognition that it was darkness in my heart that exhibited itself as a desire for control that caused me to neglect the grace I was being given a chance to display.

Darkness in your heart? Oh brother..... It was an accident. You didn't mean to do it and you were sorry afterwards. Play it however you want. Same thing.

It "helped" you, so much so that you use the fact that you were abused as a child to justify abuse. No thanks.

How judgemental of you. I haven't abused my kids. You may be abusing your kids through the dumb things you're teaching them. Abuse comes in many forms there Jethro.

You have no problem with leaving marks or breaking skin. Assuming you've done this, then yes,  you have violently assaulted your children. And, I don't have to know the entire story behind Peterson. I've seen the pictures, and there is absolutely no justification for what he did to a child. The fact that you would defend his actions shows how far off the rails you are on this particular issue.

You have no problem horse playing. Leaving marks and breaking skin. Same result.

I didn't defend his actions. I am defending corporal punishment. I said he went too far. You're just ignoring it.
 
Prin.Ciples said:
I believe I read where he said he felt bad about accidently doing this. I don't believe it was intentional.

It's hard to know his motive, and his complete intent, though I doubt he meant to hit the boy there.  No male in their right mind would EVER do that on purpose, especially to one of their own.  After all the scrutiny he has received there is no doubt that he knows that he at least has to appear contrite, which muddies the water on getting to the truth just a bit.

Prin.Ciples said:
Either way, its rather odd that a true Christian wouldn't see some grey area in the matter. Its rather obvious that those that claim "tolerance" or "diversity" often quickly abandon it when dealing with something they disagree with.


lol, true.
 
Seems we have the latest incarnation of a TROLL!
 
In the context of what we know, what AP did is not condoned in the Bible. Balance is your friend. Letting scripture interpret scripture is good practice. That is how I have practiced and taught biblical child discipline for over 30 years with, BTW, stellar results. 

Please show me which verses AP violated by disciplining too far.

Concerning your experience, good for you.

So that is your position? That the knowledge and wisdom from the Book of Proverbs relates only to that particular culture? You speak in stark contrasts stating what Proverbs is and isn't. I look at the Bible as a whole, let scripture interpret scripture and the Holy Spirit lead me to all truth. It works very well when you don't go against God's wisdom and design.


That is a part in how context is determined: To whom was the writer penning directly? How would it have been received within their culture? What was the writing style of the penman? What was the intent of the writer? I never said that Proverbs couldn't be relevant but rather not mandated. Hence, the name of the book Proverbs. By nature, they are generalities as experienced by the penmen. There are lessons that can be learned throughout but they are NOT guarantees.

For example, the fact that Hugh Heffner has lived this long mean he is righteous?

The fear of the Lord prolongeth days: but the years of the wicked shall be shortened.

No it doesn't. The writer is expressing a generality from his experience, hence it is a proverb.

All kidding aside, I believe it would be much better to take the Bible as a whole (II Timothy 3:16) and look at things in context.

Context of II Tim. 3:16 shows Paul was not including New Testament. He was speaking of the canon he (and Timothy) had access to. To apply Paul's teaching to include a 66-book canon is taking it out of its context. :)

Better yet, how about the whole counsel of God and teach the meaning behind the Hebrew in Proverbs 22:6? Teaching your children the "proper tastes" in how they should "go" so that they will have an internal compass knowing which way to live when they are adults or in adult situations.

Proverbs 22:
1 A good name is rather to be chosen than great riches, and loving favour rather than silver and gold.

2 The rich and poor meet together: the Lord is the maker of them all.

3 A prudent man foreseeth the evil, and hideth himself: but the simple pass on, and are punished.

4 By humility and the fear of the Lord are riches, and honour, and life.

5 Thorns and snares are in the way of the froward: he that doth keep his soul shall be far from them.

6 Train up a child in the way he should go: and when he is old, he will not depart from it.

7 The rich ruleth over the poor, and the borrower is servant to the lender.

8 He that soweth iniquity shall reap vanity: and the rod of his anger shall fail.

9 He that hath a bountiful eye shall be blessed; for he giveth of his bread to the poor.

Besides the fact that these are generalities and not guarantees, context indicates the idea of prosperity. In addition, "in the way he should go" can also be translated "according to his bent". In essence, God has given each child an individual gift and if we as parents, leaders and adults hone in on that with our kids, generally they will stick with it.

P.S. I firmly believe behavioral medication is dangerous, period. The "science" behind it is flawed at best and corrupt at worst. When a secular humanistic society uses the term "mental health" in connection with child rearing, Christian parents should be VERY cautious.

Parents should always be cautious with any medications, not just behavioral. I do agree that using meds to rear children is lazy and inappropriate, but the fact that sometimes a kid that can't sit still or focus just might be due to brain neurons misfiring which might be helped with the right kind of meds. Just because a kid doesn't pay attention doesn't mean he has mental illness but if it continues to happen over time, the parent should get it checked out by a medical physician, IMHO.
 
subllibrm said:
The Rogue Tomato said:
In General Practice, Corporal Punishment should not involve Private Parts.

Captain, I believe we have had a Major breakthrough.
It seems that the Petty actions of some Warrant the appropriate reaction in others.
 
T-Bone said:
Seems we have the latest incarnation of a TROLL!

Not trying to "troll" anything. I just saw a topic I thought I would get started "fighting" about. :)

I've lurked for some time and thought I would just take the step to join the forum.
 
I'll give you experience. It helped me. It has helped my children. I personally could care less about what you think about it.

I'm not saying this with any intention to be mean or obtuse but if your real personality is reflected in what is coming through the way you post, there is a good chance that it didn't "help" as much as you think.
 
Smellin Coffee said:
I'll give you experience. It helped me. It has helped my children. I personally could care less about what you think about it.

I'm not saying this with any intention to be mean or obtuse but if your real personality is reflected in what is coming through the way you post, there is a good chance that it didn't "help" as much as you think.

Are your children a shining example of what a proper "personality" should reflect? I thought you taught them to challenge the norms or question everything? To be their own person?

Why do you then question my integrity because I'm doing the same?

I don't have to agree with you or even be "agreeable" when I disagree. It appears to me that you're not very tolerant of a opposing view on the subject? Did you teach this type of response to your children?
 
Prin.Ciples said:
Smellin Coffee said:
I'll give you experience. It helped me. It has helped my children. I personally could care less about what you think about it.

I'm not saying this with any intention to be mean or obtuse but if your real personality is reflected in what is coming through the way you post, there is a good chance that it didn't "help" as much as you think.

Are your children a shining example of what a proper "personality" should reflect? I thought you taught them to challenge the norms or question everything? To be their own person?

Why do you then question my integrity because I'm doing the same?

I don't have to agree with you or even be "agreeable" when I disagree. It appears to me that you're not very tolerant of a opposing view on the subject? Did you teach this type of response to your children?

All I did was point out that it appears by the tenor (not solely the content) of your posts (both toward me and others) you come across as defensive. That happens to people who have been hurt, they easily become defensive and don't even realize it.

I don't expect ANYBODY to agree with me, including my own family. Why would I expect otherwise of a ghostwriter who other than this thread, I've never interacted with?
 
Smellin Coffee said:
Prin.Ciples said:
Smellin Coffee said:
I'll give you experience. It helped me. It has helped my children. I personally could care less about what you think about it.

I'm not saying this with any intention to be mean or obtuse but if your real personality is reflected in what is coming through the way you post, there is a good chance that it didn't "help" as much as you think.

Are your children a shining example of what a proper "personality" should reflect? I thought you taught them to challenge the norms or question everything? To be their own person?

Why do you then question my integrity because I'm doing the same?

I don't have to agree with you or even be "agreeable" when I disagree. It appears to me that you're not very tolerant of a opposing view on the subject? Did you teach this type of response to your children?

All I did was point out that it appears by the tenor (not solely the content) of your posts (both toward me and others) you come across as defensive. That happens to people who have been hurt, they easily become defensive and don't even realize it.

I don't expect ANYBODY to agree with me, including my own family. Why would I expect otherwise of a ghostwriter who other than this thread, I've never interacted with?

Fair enough. We'll just disagree. I can accept that. Its when others start to force their beliefs on others that I get a little defensive. Not saying you did.
 
Prin.Ciples said:
Smellin Coffee said:
Prin.Ciples said:
Smellin Coffee said:
I'll give you experience. It helped me. It has helped my children. I personally could care less about what you think about it.

I'm not saying this with any intention to be mean or obtuse but if your real personality is reflected in what is coming through the way you post, there is a good chance that it didn't "help" as much as you think.

Are your children a shining example of what a proper "personality" should reflect? I thought you taught them to challenge the norms or question everything? To be their own person?

Why do you then question my integrity because I'm doing the same?

I don't have to agree with you or even be "agreeable" when I disagree. It appears to me that you're not very tolerant of a opposing view on the subject? Did you teach this type of response to your children?

All I did was point out that it appears by the tenor (not solely the content) of your posts (both toward me and others) you come across as defensive. That happens to people who have been hurt, they easily become defensive and don't even realize it.

I don't expect ANYBODY to agree with me, including my own family. Why would I expect otherwise of a ghostwriter who other than this thread, I've never interacted with?

Fair enough. We'll just disagree. I can accept that. Its when others start to force their beliefs on others that I get a little defensive. Not saying you did.

Thanks. :)
 
Smellin Coffee said:
Parents should always be cautious with any medications, not just behavioral. I do agree that using meds to rear children is lazy and inappropriate, but the fact that sometimes a kid that can't sit still or focus just might be due to brain neurons misfiring which might be helped with the right kind of meds. Just because a kid doesn't pay attention doesn't mean he has mental illness but if it continues to happen over time, the parent should get it checked out by a medical physician, IMHO.

I agree. I also stipulate that the parents should be VERY careful when taking them to the psychologist or psychiatrist - for good cause on many levels. If you don't understand why, you should. 

It seems that our perspectives differ slightly in regards to the book of Proverbs and context application in regard to Biblical principles. Not a huge issue but it seems your personal preference in regards to child discipline is shaped by it. Be careful is my advice.

I credit my successful child rearing experience, as well as the many I have helped to be successful rearing their children, to the keeping of God's Word and the leading of His Spirit in the application of His principles and not to winning the "cosmic lottery". And, yes, it is good for me. Come back and speak to me when you have finished your experiment with rearing your children and we will compare notes.

How AP did what he did was wrong. That doesn't make corporal punishment wrong. In fact, the Word of God says it is right. What do you say?
 
Green Beret said:
Smellin Coffee said:
Parents should always be cautious with any medications, not just behavioral. I do agree that using meds to rear children is lazy and inappropriate, but the fact that sometimes a kid that can't sit still or focus just might be due to brain neurons misfiring which might be helped with the right kind of meds. Just because a kid doesn't pay attention doesn't mean he has mental illness but if it continues to happen over time, the parent should get it checked out by a medical physician, IMHO.

How AP did what he did was wrong. That doesn't make corporal punishment wrong. In fact, the Word of God says it is right. What do you say?

From the biblical perspective, how was AP wrong? I've asked before to show me from the Bible where he crossed the line but I haven't seen a reply, unless I missed it. In fact, he could have slapped his kid in the face as hard as he could, given a black eye, etc. and still not cross the line from a biblical perspective. The Bible says it is OK to bruise a child when punishing him.

The blueness of a wound cleanseth away evil: so do stripes the inward parts of the belly.

In essence, AP's son was given "stripes" which means AP was actually conducting biblical discipline. So you say AP was wrong yet the Bible says he was right. I think there is a disconnect somewhere here...
 
Green Beret said:
That doesn't make corporal punishment wrong. In fact, the Word of God says it is right. What do you say?

Oh, forgot to answer this.

If the Bible mandates that I strike a child, I refuse to obey that mandate.
 
Smellin Coffee said:
From the biblical perspective, how was AP wrong? I've asked before to show me from the Bible where he crossed the line but I haven't seen a reply, unless I missed it. In fact, he could have slapped his kid in the face as hard as he could, given a black eye, etc. and still not cross the line from a biblical perspective. The Bible says it is OK to bruise a child when punishing him.
The blueness of a wound cleanseth away evil: so do stripes the inward parts of the belly.
In essence, AP's son was given "stripes" which means AP was actually conducting biblical discipline. So you say AP was wrong yet the Bible says he was right. I think there is a disconnect somewhere here...

I've read your posts off and on for many years on the various FFFs and your positions on more than a few topics of import have changed over time. To be honest, I can't tell if you are being serious or just jousting to get a desired response.

I don't think you are actually this dense. I think you are speaking in stark contrast to highlight your subjective opinion on corporal punishment.

It seems you are more interested in validating your stand against the scriptures on this point so I will not do the heavy lifting to teach the obvious (at least the obvious to those without a seared conscience).

If you are honestly asking the question, then start with context. For example...
Proverbs 20:30 The blueness of a wound cleanseth away evil: so do stripes the inward parts of the belly.

...is NOT dealing with children.

Now, what about this?

Proverbs 13:24  He that spareth his rod hateth his son: but he that loveth him chasteneth him betimes.

Do you "hate" your son? Remember, the fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom. Are your practices lining up with the Lord's wisdom or the world's?
 
Smellin Coffee said:
Green Beret said:
That doesn't make corporal punishment wrong. In fact, the Word of God says it is right. What do you say?

Oh, forgot to answer this.

If the Bible mandates that I strike a child, I refuse to obey that mandate.

Nice duck and dodge. The Bible says,

Proverbs 13:24  He that spareth his rod hateth his son: but he that loveth him chasteneth him betimes.

According to the Bible, do you "hate" your son?
 
Green Beret said:
Smellin Coffee said:
Green Beret said:
That doesn't make corporal punishment wrong. In fact, the Word of God says it is right. What do you say?

Oh, forgot to answer this.

If the Bible mandates that I strike a child, I refuse to obey that mandate.

Nice duck and dodge. The Bible says,

Proverbs 13:24  He that spareth his rod hateth his son: but he that loveth him chasteneth him betimes.

According to the Bible, do you "hate" your son?

Again, this is a proverb, an observation about life, not an absolute truth.

If you believe it is an absolute truth, then I disagree with the writer's premise and would stand guilty of his accusations.

"Greater love has no man than this, that a man lay down his life for another." In contrast, by Jesus' words, I love my children because I would die for them.
 
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