Are you a counterfeit Christian?

[Bob H]

2.) You believe the Bible is more important than Jesus.

John 1 tells us that the Written Word and the Living Word are one and the same. They cannot be separated

Unrepentantly confessing to blatant idolatry...pretty strong indicator.

That may be but it has nuttin to do with my post & point #2 which I was responding to

If Jesus is exactly the same as the written word of the Bible, then you'd think he'd have fewer discrepancies about what books make up the parts of him, and you'd think he'd have fewer errors. 

You lost me there so I'll let it lie 

Personally, I was thinking #2 applied more to KJVOs, but you corrected me on that, unless you are also a KJVO.

Personally, I'm thinking you thought wrong. I'll confess I haven't read the whole article {so I could be wrong} but what I have read the KJVO issue wasn't even raised and it wasn't anywhere on my radar when I responded. His first sentence in his point #2 is quite telling. So I'm thinking you had some pre-concieved ideas before you read it.    And BTW, I'm not KJO but you knew that.

 

[rsc2a]

So would you consider the author saved or unsaved?

The answer to that question is far above my pay grade. He does seem intent on showing love and grace to others as he tries to follow Jesus, so that's a good sign.

 

[The Rogue Tomato]

Personally, I'm thinking you thought wrong. I'll confess I haven't read the whole article {so I could be wrong} but what I have read the KJVO issue wasn't even raised and it wasn't anywhere on my radar when I responded. His first sentence in his point #2 is quite telling. So I'm thinking you had some pre-concieved ideas before you read it.    And BTW, I'm not KJO but you knew that.

I'm not saying HE meant KJVOs, but that I'm saying the concept of believing the Bible is more important than Jesus is a KJVO trait. 

 

[The Rogue Tomato]

So would you consider the author saved or unsaved?

The answer to that question is far above my pay grade. He does seem intent on showing love and grace to others as he tries to follow Jesus, so that's a good sign.

Yeah, but questioning his salvation is a good red herring to draw attention away from the points he was making. 

 

[rsc2a]

So would you consider the author saved or unsaved?

The answer to that question is far above my pay grade. He does seem intent on showing love and grace to others as he tries to follow Jesus, so that's a good sign.

Yeah, but questioning his salvation is a good red herring to draw attention away from the points he was making.

See point #7.

 

[Bob H]

Personally, I'm thinking you thought wrong. I'll confess I haven't read the whole article {so I could be wrong} but what I have read the KJVO issue wasn't even raised and it wasn't anywhere on my radar when I responded. His first sentence in his point #2 is quite telling. So I'm thinking you had some pre-concieved ideas before you read it.    And BTW, I'm not KJO but you knew that.

I'm not saying HE meant KJVOs, but that I'm saying the concept of believing the Bible is more important than Jesus is a KJVO trait.

{Your invented KJVO argument aside } that's why my first response. One cannot accept the Living Word and yet deny the Written Word and vice-versa. Their both equally important. There's only one place where we can learn the gospel and the claims of Christ and that is the Bible. Either you believe it or you don't.




"For this cause also thank we God without ceasing, because, when ye received the word of God which ye heard of us, ye received it not as the word of men, but as it is in truth, the word of God, which effectually worketh also in you that believe."

 

[rsc2a]

One cannot accept the Living Word and yet deny the Written Word and vice-versa. Their both equally important.

One is God. The other is not. You are promoting idolatry.

 

[ALAYMAN]

So would you consider the author saved or unsaved?

The answer to that question is far above my pay grade. He does seem intent on showing love and grace to others as he tries to follow Jesus, so that's a good sign.

Yeah, but questioning his salvation is a good red herring to draw attention away from the points he was making.

See point #7.

Ya know  what is really funny here?  Just yesterday you and Costello impugned the character of AW Pink because he eventually fell away from fellowship with other Christians.  You did that in order to dismiss him (which I had already predicted you'd do before I ever listed a commentator).  Pink's error was being too selective in his dogma, but this Campbellite you're coddling preaches a false gospel and when I mention that he needs to get his spiritual priorities right before he goes speculating about the brethren on in-house issues you two become the biggest hypocrites this side of Judas.

Irony, ain't it rich?

 

[Bruh]

So would you consider the author saved or unsaved?

The answer to that question is far above my pay grade. He does seem intent on showing love and grace to others as he tries to follow Jesus, so that's a good sign.

Based on the doctrinal statement he believes with all his heart that his baptism is a part of salvation.

That would make his father the devil.

 

[rsc2a]

So would you consider the author saved or unsaved?

The answer to that question is far above my pay grade. He does seem intent on showing love and grace to others as he tries to follow Jesus, so that's a good sign.

Yeah, but questioning his salvation is a good red herring to draw attention away from the points he was making.

See point #7.

Ya know  what is really funny here?  Just yesterday you and Costello impugned the character of AW Pink because he eventually fell away from fellowship with other Christians.  You did that in order to dismiss him (which I had already predicted you'd do before I ever listed a commentator).  Pink's error was being too selective in his dogma, but this Campbellite you're coddling preaches a false gospel and when I mention that he needs to get his spiritual priorities right before he goes speculating about the brethren on in-house issues you two become the biggest hypocrites this side of Judas.

Irony, ain't it rich?

I fail to see where he has denied a fundamental belief of Christianity. You and Pink openly do. Or did you have some other point?

 

[ALAYMAN]

I fail to see where he has denied a fundamental belief of Christianity. You and Pink openly do. Or did you have some other point?

Baptism places a person in Christ?  Causes them to be regenerated?  That's cool with you? 

Try not to obfuscate.

 

[rsc2a]

Based on the doctrinal statement he believes with all his heart that his baptism is a part of salvation.

That would make his father the devil.

He believes verses you conveniently to ignore. I'm sure you likewise believe verses he conveniently ignores.

 

[rsc2a]

I fail to see where he has denied a fundamental belief of Christianity. You and Pink openly do. Or did you have some other point?

Baptism places a person in Christ?  Causes them to be regenerated?  That's cool with you? 

Try not to obfuscate.

The Spirit places a person in Christ through Jesus. The Spirit regenerates. He uses a variety of means to accomplish this. You, meanwhile, reject foundational Christian dogma and are, therefore, a heretic.

 

[The Rogue Tomato]

Irony, ain't it rich?

No, there's no irony.  You fail to see the issue.  Pink wrote an excellent book on the sovereignty of God, and there's a boatload of truth in it.  But Pink is wrong on Matthew 16:18. 

I know this might be a foreign concept to you, but you can be right sometimes and wrong other times, and when you're wrong about something, that doesn't make what you got right any less right. 

I have a great admiration for Pink, despite what he got wrong.  All I pointed out was that you probably disagree with everything else Pink said and wrote. I didn't try discredit him just because he got something wrong. 

But that's what you're doing here.  There are 7 excellent points this guy made.  You recognize some of these flaws in yourself and can't deal with it, so you tried to assassinate his character, instead. 

 

[ALAYMAN]

I fail to see where he has denied a fundamental belief of Christianity. You and Pink openly do. Or did you have some other point?

Baptism places a person in Christ?  Causes them to be regenerated?  That's cool with you? 

Try not to obfuscate.

The Spirit places a person in Christ through Jesus. The Spirit regenerates. He uses a variety of means to accomplish this. You, meanwhile, reject foundational Christian dogma and are, therefore, a heretic.

You didn't answer the question, which is no surprise, but for the onlookers who are bedazzled by your simple sophistry I'll ask again....

does a person become born again and placed into Christ by their baptism?

 

[ALAYMAN]

Irony, ain't it rich?

No, there's no irony.  You fail to see the issue.  Pink wrote an excellent book on the sovereignty of God, and there's a boatload of truth in it.  But Pink is wrong on Matthew 16:18. 

I know this might be a foreign concept to you, but you can be right sometimes and wrong other times, and when you're wrong about something, that doesn't make what you got right any less right. 

I have a great admiration for Pink, despite what he got wrong.  All I pointed out was that you probably disagree with everything else Pink said and wrote. I didn't try discredit him just because he got something wrong. 

But that's what you're doing here.  There are 7 excellent points this guy made.  You recognize some of these flaws in yourself and can't deal with it, so you tried to assassinate his character, instead.

Spin, spin, spin.  That's what you do, and I've busted you numerous times, so much that it's getting way past embarrassing for you.  This fella is right on several things, but none of them apply to me, but none of that has anything to do with the fact that he could be whistling past the graveyard on his way to hell if he believes that baptism is what is assisting him in salvation.  You ignore that glaring problem in his judgment and discernment because you choose to look the other way in favor of goring your favorite hobby horses.  Nothing new really.

 

[rsc2a]

I fail to see where he has denied a fundamental belief of Christianity. You and Pink openly do. Or did you have some other point?

Baptism places a person in Christ?  Causes them to be regenerated?  That's cool with you? 

Try not to obfuscate.

The Spirit places a person in Christ through Jesus. The Spirit regenerates. He uses a variety of means to accomplish this. You, meanwhile, reject foundational Christian dogma and are, therefore, a heretic.

You didn't answer the question, which is no surprise, but for the onlookers who are bedazzled by your simple sophistry I'll ask again....

does a person become born again and placed into Christ by their baptism?

I'll repeat what I stated and you then quoted:

The Spirit places a person in Christ through Jesus. The Spirit regenerates. He uses a variety of means to accomplish this.



But like TRT has observed (and I agree with), you were quick to ignore the seven points and jump to character assassination. Then you deny that any of the points could apply to you...something I find completely ridiculous since everyone would get pricked at least once or twice reading the list. I know which ones are most damning to me, and based on your history here, I could point to several that would apply to you. It is only a giant ego that would refuse to see this.

 

[ALAYMAN]

I fail to see where he has denied a fundamental belief of Christianity. You and Pink openly do. Or did you have some other point?

Baptism places a person in Christ?  Causes them to be regenerated?  That's cool with you? 

Try not to obfuscate.

The Spirit places a person in Christ through Jesus. The Spirit regenerates. He uses a variety of means to accomplish this. You, meanwhile, reject foundational Christian dogma and are, therefore, a heretic.

You didn't answer the question, which is no surprise, but for the onlookers who are bedazzled by your simple sophistry I'll ask again....

does a person become born again and placed into Christ by their baptism?

I'll repeat what I stated and you then quoted:

The Spirit places a person in Christ through Jesus. The Spirit regenerates. He uses a variety of means to accomplish this.

You can't bother to answer a simple question with any specificity.  It's disingenuous, and it suits you.  To claim the Campbellite heresy is the gospel has you denying the very Scriptures you claim to uphold.  To embrace the heresy of baptismal regeneration rather than call it what it is shows this forum who is the heretic.  And the sad thing is that you won't admit it's another gospel because of your desire to win an argument.

But like TRT has observed (and I agree with), you were quick to ignore the seven points and jump to character assassination. Then you deny that any of the points could apply to you...something I find completely ridiculous since everyone would get pricked at least once or twice reading the list. I know which ones are most damning to me, and based on your history here, I could point to several that would apply to you. It is only a giant ego that would refuse to see this.

Which ones have I been guilty of, since you know me so well?

 

[Bob H]

One cannot accept the Living Word and yet deny the Written Word and vice-versa. Their both equally important.

One is God. The other is not. You are promoting idolatry.

" In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.......................... And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth."

 

[rsc2a]

[quote author=ALAYMAN]You can't bother to answer a simple question with any specificity.  It's disingenuous, and it suits you.  To claim the Campbellite heresy is the gospel has you denying the very Scriptures you claim to uphold.  To embrace the heresy of baptismal regeneration rather than call it what it is shows this forum who is the heretic.  And the sad thing is that you won't admit it's another gospel because of your desire to win an argument.[/quote]

The Bible doesn't answer the question with specificity other than to say from the Father by the Son through the Spirit. Does RTR need to trot out his list of verses that give about a dozen different modes of salvation?

[quote author=ALAYMAN]

But like TRT has observed (and I agree with), you were quick to ignore the seven points and jump to character assassination. Then you deny that any of the points could apply to you...something I find completely ridiculous since everyone would get pricked at least once or twice reading the list. I know which ones are most damning to me, and based on your history here, I could point to several that would apply to you. It is only a giant ego that would refuse to see this.

Which ones have I been guilty of, since you know me so well?[/quote]

Well certainly #2 and #7.

#2 - You believe the Bible is more important than Jesus.  You've even went so far as to set them co-equal before and strongly argued for such idolatry.

#7 You think Christian maturity is more about how much you know than what you do. In fact, you've stated repeatedly that it is your knowledge of Jesus that saves you even when pressed that it is Jesus who saves you, period.