Article: Why I Have Not Left The Independent Baptist Movement.

I have never left being an independent baptist, since from what i can tell is the closes from a biblical model.  As for the fundy movement, i have left that.  I have also distanced by self from movements in general
 
Will you define the base of the movement you haven't left? I hate to tell you this, but Curtis Hutson wasn't the base of the IFB movement. I got to hear Curtis Hutson preach several times in my life. I can tell you I'd take Hutson over Smith any day of the week. Yet, just what is the core attraction of IFBdom to you. I've always heard it defined as the three Bs. I'm sure you know what that means. I thought it rather silly to use the 3 Bs as the distinction. Surely you can do better than that. If the blog is correct, is solely about hyper evangelism?

To be honest, I consider this one of the glaring issues among the extreme elements of IFBdom.

 
Undertaker said:
I have never left being an independent baptist, since from what i can tell is the closes from a biblical model.  As for the fundy movement, i have left that.  I have also distanced by self from movements in general
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The ideals of Congregationalism were established long before anything IFB.
 
pastorryanhayden said:
I don't know this guy, but I liked this article and I echo his sentiments toward Independent Baptists:
http://brentstancil.blogspot.com/2013/06/why-i-have-not-left-independent-baptist_5.html?m=1
Click to expand...

Agreed. As I've said before, I believe in the underlying doctrines that identify us as Baptists, as independents, and as fundamentalists. Since those doctrinal positions are right then I stay an IFB. I've said my piece publicly about the sins of our movement, and I've got more to say, but emphatically from the inside not the outside. There simply isn't anywhere else more doctrinally correct to go.
 
christundivided said:
Will you define the base of the movement you haven't left? I hate to tell you this, but Curtis Hutson wasn't the base of the IFB movement. I got to hear Curtis Hutson preach several times in my life. I can tell you I'd take Hutson over Smith any day of the week. Yet, just what is the core attraction of IFBdom to you. I've always heard it defined as the three Bs. I'm sure you know what that means. I thought it rather silly to use the 3 Bs as the distinction. Surely you can do better than that. If the blog is correct, is solely about hyper evangelism?

To be honest, I consider this one of the glaring issues among the extreme elements of IFBdom.
Click to expand...

Actually, I have no idea what "the three B's" are.  I personally shy away from almost all rhetorical devices like alliteration and acrostics (besides A.L.F.)
 
In all of these posts shows why I left the IFB. All  of this was always preached at my church about Baptist history, Baptist doctrine, yada yada yada...
You know what's missing? Christ! More about want ing to be a baptist and nothing to seek after Christ.
There was more preaching on standards and nothing on just the worshipping of Jesus!
 
My family and I left extreme IFB years ago.  But all the while we were in it we heard preached over and over that IFB were the only ones correct on all things Scripturally.  IFB's believe in the Fundamentals of the Faith and the Baptist Distinctives thus making them "right" and superior to all other denominations.  yadda yadda yadda

Well since we left the IFBxer movement I have clearly seen that IFB are not the only to believe in the Fundamentals of the Faith and have clearly seen that the Baptist Distinctives are not only for Baptist!!!  I do not even call them Baptist distinctives any more.

But the Xer leadership has to control and minipulate in order to keep in power with the sheeples and so it goes on.

so sad
 
Tom Brennan said:
pastorryanhayden said:
I don't know this guy, but I liked this article and I echo his sentiments toward Independent Baptists:
http://brentstancil.blogspot.com/2013/06/why-i-have-not-left-independent-baptist_5.html?m=1
Click to expand...

Agreed. As I've said before, I believe in the underlying doctrines that identify us as Baptists, as independents, and as fundamentalists. Since those doctrinal positions are right then I stay an IFB. I've said my piece publicly about the sins of our movement, and I've got more to say, but emphatically from the inside not the outside. There simply isn't anywhere else more doctrinally correct to go.
Click to expand...

No where else to go? How about back to the roots of Christianity? Do you really believe you need the name "Baptist" to truly identify with Christ and His teachings? Can you make a case for this belief. If its a personal preference, then fine. Treat it as such. Yet, don't preach it as the "best place to be".
 
pastorryanhayden said:
christundivided said:
Will you define the base of the movement you haven't left? I hate to tell you this, but Curtis Hutson wasn't the base of the IFB movement. I got to hear Curtis Hutson preach several times in my life. I can tell you I'd take Hutson over Smith any day of the week. Yet, just what is the core attraction of IFBdom to you. I've always heard it defined as the three Bs. I'm sure you know what that means. I thought it rather silly to use the 3 Bs as the distinction. Surely you can do better than that. If the blog is correct, is solely about hyper evangelism?

To be honest, I consider this one of the glaring issues among the extreme elements of IFBdom.
Click to expand...

Actually, I have no idea what "the three B's" are.  I personally shy away from almost all rhetorical devices like alliteration and acrostics (besides A.L.F.)
Click to expand...

I'm really looking for a proper distinction among IFBs that attracts you to the "movement". Can you elaborate on what exactly that might be...

The three Bs are the

The Blood, the Book and the Blessed Hope.

Here is an example of said "Baptist rhetoric".

http://www.baptistpillar.com/article_135.html

http://www.examiner.com/article/the-book-the-blood-the-blessed-hope

 
He says this, "The reason I do not do that is very simple. All of the things I have listed are behavior issues not belief issues." While in another article he says this,"Belief is expressed by behavior. Your actions tell the world whether you are coming from a point of belief or going toward a point of belief"

The IFB movement does indeed have behavior issues and they are created by a faulty belief system, namely legalism: a works based sanctification that cuts you off from the grace of God. I am becoming more and more convinced that the IFB movement is carnal to the core, absent of any working of the grace of God because of its belief in works and law rather than grace and faith. This is a foundational fault and reveals a fundamental misunderstanding of Scripture caused by the all to common IFB arrogance and pride.

I haven't left yet but I am halfway out the door.
 
Exell said:
He says this, "The reason I do not do that is very simple. All of the things I have listed are behavior issues not belief issues." While in another article he says this,"Belief is expressed by behavior. Your actions tell the world whether you are coming from a point of belief or going toward a point of belief"

The IFB movement does indeed have behavior issues and they are created by a faulty belief system, namely legalism: a works based sanctification that cuts you off from the grace of God. I am becoming more and more convinced that the IFB movement is carnal to the core, absent of any working of the grace of God because of its belief in works and law rather than grace and faith. This is a foundational fault and reveals a fundamental misunderstanding of Scripture caused by the all to common IFB arrogance and pride.

I haven't left yet but I am halfway out the door.
Click to expand...

I honestly believe the problem with many IFB churches is the "power" factor. Its be said that "absolute power, corrupts absolutely." I don't think this a problem exclusive to IFBdom. I've seen it in other churches. Many other churches. Across several denominations. I do believe it is more prevalent in IFB churches due to what they teach. Like you said, legalism is one their tools to create an environment of absolute control. Its a means whereby they attempt to establish themselves to be spiritually superior to anyone else. Once they have established this fake "superiority", they go about establishing their "righteous" system of acceptance and "rank" in their local assemblies. It really becomes a thing of "anything goes for me and everyone else better listen to me". They genuinely don't want their followers to be like "Christ". They want their followers to be like "them". I grew tired of this 20 years ago and I could less who knows it. I had to face my own problems with said "power complex". I had to admit that was much the same way. I changed. I could care less about acceptance. I could care less about establishing my "spiritual superiority". I can tell you.... I think every man faces this at one time or another in his life. The "good men" recognize it. They question their own motives. They chasten their own actions. They become more concerned about the position of those around them..... than their own position.

Throw in the fact that "preaching/pastoring" has become a live or die livelihood to them.... and it becomes "anything goes".... and most times... .it does. The "absolute power" most IFB pastor hold..... has corrupted them.
 
Exell said:
He says this, "The reason I do not do that is very simple. All of the things I have listed are behavior issues not belief issues." While in another article he says this,"Belief is expressed by behavior. Your actions tell the world whether you are coming from a point of belief or going toward a point of belief"

The IFB movement does indeed have behavior issues and they are created by a faulty belief system, namely legalism: a works based sanctification that cuts you off from the grace of God. I am becoming more and more convinced that the IFB movement is carnal to the core, absent of any working of the grace of God because of its belief in works and law rather than grace and faith. This is a foundational fault and reveals a fundamental misunderstanding of Scripture caused by the all to common IFB arrogance and pride.

I haven't left yet but I am halfway out the door.
Click to expand...

I agree that behavior and belief are joined at the hip.
I was IFB my entire church life....60 plus years of it. But while my belief and practice was consistent, the other IFBs in our area thought I was liberal and too Southern Baptist...so last fall, we aligned with the SBC.

Haven't looked back.....
 
I had not read the man's other articles.  Only that one.
I have the joy of pastoring an independent Baptist church that truly is independent.  The pastor before me, a man who stayed at our church for 39 years and who is now struggling with dementia, was an expository preacher before it was cool, and faithfully stayed by the stuff.  Most of the people in our church have no idea who Jack Hyles, Curtis Hutson, or Frank Norris were.  If they know the names Paul Chappell or Clarence Sexton, it is just because their names occasionally grace a Sunday School book.  Frankly, I don't care what other independent Baptists are doing and we aren't trying to fit in with that crowd.  My only interest in the outside independent Baptist world comes because the words independent Baptist are on our church sign.
I worked for a pastor for five years who was, in my opinion, one of the most gracious and balanced men I have ever known.  After I had been hurt at another IFB church, he took me under his wing and spent time with me almost every day for the whole time I was with him, helping me and encouraging me.  He wasn't a part of any "crowd" and yet he managed to befriend an extremely diverse group of independent Baptist leaders. 
Why am I an independent Baptist?  I'm a baptist.  I enjoy the independence of our church.  I am a ecclesiastical separatist.  But I am under no misleadings that independent Baptists have a corner on truth or are the only people who are faithful to the Lord and His Word.  There are many Southern Baptists, Presbyterians and non-denominational leaders who I respect and learn from.  I have a cousin who is an orthodox presbyterian and though I don't share his ecclesiology or his eschatology, I think He loves the Lord and I enjoy listening to Him preach.
That's a muddled mess, hope that answers your questions.
 
[quote author=pastorryanhayden]Why am I an independent Baptist?  I'm a baptist.  I enjoy the independence of our church.  I am a ecclesiastical separatist...[/quote]

I tend to think independent Baptists stress the"independent" entirely too much. The local body is responsible for itself, but it is still responsible to other bodies. Additionally, one should be aware of (and responsive to) history and fellow congregations even though they shouldn't treat those examples as sacrosanct. It is fundamentally impossible to be completely "independent".

[quote author=pastorryanhayden]But I am under no misleadings that independent Baptists have a corner on truth or are the only people who are faithful to the Lord and His Word.  There are many Southern Baptists, Presbyterians and non-denominational leaders who I respect and learn from.  I have a cousin who is an orthodox presbyterian and though I don't share his ecclesiology or his eschatology, I think He loves the Lord and I enjoy listening to Him preach. [/quote]

This is part of the reason I respect your opinion even when I disagree with it.
 
christundivided said:
No where else to go? How about back to the roots of Christianity? Do you really believe you need the name "Baptist" to truly identify with Christ and His teachings? Can you make a case for this belief? If its a personal preference, then fine. Treat it as such. Yet, don't preach it as the "best place to be".
Click to expand...

no
we are there
yes
yes, though I'm not interested in doing it with you
...and I fully intend to keep preaching it as the 'best place to be'

You're welcome.  :D
 
christundivided said:
The three Bs are the

The Blood, the Book and the Blessed Hope.

Here is an example of said "Baptist rhetoric".

http://www.baptistpillar.com/article_135.html

http://www.examiner.com/article/the-book-the-blood-the-blessed-hope
Click to expand...

Don't forget the flag!

BaptistFlag2.gif


And the Pledge!

      "I pledge allegiance to the Baptist Flag,

        And to the Faith once delivered unto the Saints.

        I will ever remain faithful to the tie that binds us together,

        The Book, the Blood, and the Blessed Hope of our Lord's soon coming."

 
Tom Brennan said:
christundivided said:
No where else to go? How about back to the roots of Christianity? Do you really believe you need the name "Baptist" to truly identify with Christ and His teachings? Can you make a case for this belief? If its a personal preference, then fine. Treat it as such. Yet, don't preach it as the "best place to be".
Click to expand...

no
we are there
yes
yes, though I'm not interested in doing it with you
...and I fully intend to keep preaching it as the 'best place to be'

You're welcome.  :D
Click to expand...

Typical.......

I never asked to "do it with you".

Are you going to give justification for claiming "its the best place to be"???
 
Tom B, do you really believe you are at the roots if Christianity? 1st century style? With not tinge of Americana attached to it?
 
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