Ben Fields: Hero or rogue cop?

[Smellin Coffee]

Lesson learned by the rest of the class: don't trust white cops. They have it out for you.

My coworker told me of a similar incident that happened about 30 years ago (at a time when he and I were both in highschool).  To make a long story short, the student was being a butthead and wadded up a homework assignment then threw it down in the floor.  It's not all that different than what this student did (though he was white, as was the teacher).  The teacher, without a word,  picked him by the scruff of the neck and drug him up through the aisle, desks and stuff flying everywhere, and tossed him out into the hallway.  They then administered the customary 5 swats to the backside, and returned him to the class.  Neither he, nor anybody else in the class had another disruption the rest of the year.  Maybe your perspective is relative to your own emotional bias.

So the end justifies the means.

I bet if the teacher fired a weapon in the air, or put a knife to the throat of the kid and threatened to kill him, that would have kept the peace for the remainder of the year also.

Perhaps my perspective IS relative to my own emotional bias. I won't deny that. Physical violence is NOT the answer. If this was a continuing problem, school administration should have not let her in the class or found another solution. If this was a singular instance, they should have moved her out of the class. If she refused to go, move the class to the gym for the day and keep her there until a parent or guardian could come get her.

A few years ago when I was unemployed, I was a substitute teacher for an elementary school. In first grade, there was a particular kid who was completely disruptive, would bring in pictures of knives and guns, would bring in dolls with amputated limbs or head and even carried around a Barbie with a noose around the neck. This was FIRST GRADE. He would physically bang his head on the desk and tell his mom the teacher was hitting him.

The school was at wits end and hired me for the entire semester to take him to the back of the class and teach him one-on-one. Guess what? I became his friend and he was able to learn his studies and his grades improved. When he did things with the class, I stood next to him. I never had to grab him or even threaten discipline but rather worked on getting him to focus. He took his EOG tests in a room by himself but he passed easily. He never banged his head when I was there and his mom said he actually settled down a little at home. He had tremendous social and attention deficit issues and they were not being dealt with at home so the problems happened at school.

The school asked me to come back the following fall but I had found a job and could not sub again. Point being is not that I have the answers because I just wing it, but there are other alternatives to dealing with disruptive students and threats and violence are not required.

If that makes me emotionally biased, I will own it.

No, the ends doesnt' justify the means.  As I've already stated, I'm conflicted, mostly because the cop appears to have had a history of excessive force.  But comparing the event that occurred to threatening a life with a knife is a bit of a stretch.  Yes, he could and should have handled it better, but if you want to be known as a bad*** then you're gonna earn those stripes, and she did.

Understand. And I'm glad you recognize I am not suggesting she was of innocence.

What gets me is that school teachers should be taught how to handle conflict peacefully. In this case, it seems they didn't know how to handle so they called in the police officer who was at the school. Police officers ARE taught how to handle conflict peacefully and to use force, only when mandatory. Pulling a girl from her seat, stuck under a desk is not handling conflict peacefully. Even if she slapped him (and I agree it appears she did), she was sitting down and he was standing up. She was a teenage girl, he a power lifting cop, trained to combat if need be, wearing protection and carrying a weapon. She was not going to harm him from her physical presence, capabilities or even body position. There is no reason for him to even grab her, much less use excessive force.

What I fear is that in the eyes of the other kids, she DID become the hero, and policemen in general became the enemy. More damage than just a broken arm and some bruises. And the biggest lesson it taught the kids is that the way to overcome non-violent rebellion is the use of physical force. Intimidation makes for subservient people and not only creates bullies, but also abused the human spirit of the victims.

As a trained officer, he should have understood all this, realized there was no physical threat and waited out the situation. Or perhaps HE was the one trying to be the 'bad... cop' to rule the school in fear.

 

[qwerty]

http://www.youngcons.com/breaking-tons-of-students-walk-out-in-protestover-officer-who-was-fired/

So when do these kids get beat down for usurping authority?

Apparently you did but read the article.....

"The students walked into the school atrium and then returned to class after administrators addressed them."

Keep in mind there is a Facebook support page for Jack Schaap.

How could we forget? It is brought up often, and it's very existence seems to apply to so many unrelated things it's amazing. 

 

[ALAYMAN]

Understand. And I'm glad you recognize I am not suggesting she was of innocence.

What gets me is that school teachers should be taught how to handle conflict peacefully. In this case, it seems they didn't know how to handle so they called in the police officer who was at the school. Police officers ARE taught how to handle conflict peacefully and to use force, only when mandatory. Pulling a girl from her seat, stuck under a desk is not handling conflict peacefully. Even if she slapped him (and I agree it appears she did), she was sitting down and he was standing up. She was a teenage girl, he a power lifting cop, trained to combat if need be, wearing protection and carrying a weapon. She was not going to harm him from her physical presence, capabilities or even body position. There is no reason for him to even grab her, much less use excessive force.

What I fear is that in the eyes of the other kids, she DID become the hero, and policemen in general became the enemy. More damage than just a broken arm and some bruises. And the biggest lesson it taught the kids is that the way to overcome non-violent rebellion is the use of physical force. Intimidation makes for subservient people and not only creates bullies, but also abused the human spirit of the victims.

As a trained officer, he should have understood all this, realized there was no physical threat and waited out the situation. Or perhaps HE was the one trying to be the 'bad... cop' to rule the school in fear.

I pretty much agree with this, except for assuming that the cops' bad behavior will embolden thugs to by more thuggy.  It's like the (false) correlation that people draw between violence committed and the playing of violent video games.  People do what they want because they have a will, and a depraved will that is bent on evil don't need excuses, it does what it does.  The cops' presence is designed by God to serve as a ministry against doing evil, and those who don't harbor ill in their hearts shouldn't worry.

Rom 13:3  For rulers are not a terror to good works, but to the evil. Wilt thou then not be afraid of the power? do that which is good, and thou shalt have praise of the same:

 

[rsc2a]

After all, all governmental authorities are grand and have nothing but our best interests at heart...



...unless we disagree with them politically?

 

[ALAYMAN]

After all, all governmental authorities are grand and have nothing but our best interests at heart...



...unless we disagree with them politically?

Romans 13 isn't a guarantee that every government and politician will do the will of God every single waking moment, but you knew that already.  It is put in place by God for restraining evil, of which rebellion is ranked near the top.  Your argument is with Scripture, not me. 

 

[biscuit1953]

I refuse to listen to Glenn Beck for various reasons but I heard him interviewed on this subject and basically he said that although the officer may have used more force than necessary the narrative given by the mainstream media (read left wing) is that any time a cop is white and uses force to restrain a black person racism will inevitably be brought up.  He said that kids in high school across the country will look at that video and think all they have to do is refuse a reasonable request and there will be no consequences especially if the teacher is White and the student is Black.  He said the bottom line is anarchy will reign.  I agree with him.

I started first grade in 1959 and one thing I was taught was to respect authority.  One time in the third or fourth grade I brought home a report card with bad grades and my father told me if I ever had a report like that again he would cut the blood out of my legs.  My grades improved dramatically.

On another occasion I was cutting up in class and got six hard licks from the teacher's paddle and a loss of recess for doodling in a coloring book in the back of the class with another kid.  The teacher made me take the coloring book home to have my father sign it.  He had already told me if I ever got another paddling at school he would wear me out when I got home. 

I had a teacher in the sixth grade who would have us raise our hands if we didn't do our homework assignment and then he would proceed to line the slackers up for a paddling in front of the whole class.  I realize this if foreign to the present generation but when there is no respect for authority and they act like animals in the classrooms what else can we expect? 

 

[Smellin Coffee]

I pretty much agree with this, except for assuming that the cops' bad behavior will embolden thugs to by more thuggy.  It's like the (false) correlation that people draw between violence committed and the playing of violent video games.  People do what they want because they have a will, and a depraved will that is bent on evil don't need excuses, it does what it does.  The cops' presence is designed by God to serve as a ministry against doing evil, and those who don't harbor ill in their hearts shouldn't worry.

I'm sure you believe the pastor's presence is to feed the sheep of God but you know in reality that doesn't mean it always happens.

Thugs (like bullies) use their power to gain power. That doesn't mean that people in power are all thugs or that they all act like bullies.

Rom 13:3  For rulers are not a terror to good works, but to the evil. Wilt thou then not be afraid of the power? do that which is good, and thou shalt have praise of the same:

Funny how some people on this forum make Obama the exception.

 

[Smellin Coffee]

I refuse to listen to Glenn Beck for various reasons but I heard him interviewed on this subject and basically he said that although the officer may have used more force than necessary the narrative given by the mainstream media (read left wing) is that any time a cop is white and uses force to restrain a black person racism will inevitably be brought up.  He said that kids in high school across the country will look at that video and think all they have to do is refuse a reasonable request and there will be no consequences especially if the teacher is White and the student is Black.  He said the bottom line is anarchy will reign.  I agree with him.

I started first grade in 1959 and one thing I was taught was to respect authority.  One time in the third or fourth grade I brought home a report card with bad grades and my father told me if I ever had a report like that again he would cut the blood out of my legs.  My grades improved dramatically.

On another occasion I was cutting up in class and got six hard licks from the teacher's paddle and a loss of recess for doodling in a coloring book in the back of the class with another kid.  The teacher made me take the coloring book home to have my father sign it.  He had already told me if I ever got another paddling at school he would wear me out when I got home. 

I had a teacher in the sixth grade who would have us raise our hands if we didn't do our homework assignment and then he would proceed to line the slackers up for a paddling in front of the whole class.  I realize this if foreign to the present generation but when there is no respect for authority and they act like animals in the classrooms what else can we expect?

So the fact that you were bullied by authority makes it OK for society.

 

[rsc2a]

Funny how some people on this forum make Obama the exception.

That was pretty much my point as well. Alayman keeps harping on this idea that the gal rejected authority so somehow deserved a beatdown, yet he'll quickly dismiss other times.

Seems like the guiding principle isn't obeying authority, but certain people obeying certain authorities. All animals are equal or some such.

 

[ALAYMAN]

I'm sure you believe the pastor's presence is to feed the sheep of God but you know in reality that doesn't mean it always happens.

Thugs (like bullies) use their power to gain power. That doesn't mean that people in power are all thugs or that they all act like bullies.

The verse isn't an absolute maxim that guarantees peace and harmony if followed, anymore than the proverbs are always specific truths, but the principle remains.  If the girl had put away her phone then all would have been fine.

Funny how some people on this forum make Obama the exception.

Your mode of operation I respect, ratboy, not so much.  Your "some people" gives enough wiggle room that I can assume you weren't addressing me, but if you were, what about Obama have I said that lines up with your point?

 

[Smellin Coffee]

I'm sure you believe the pastor's presence is to feed the sheep of God but you know in reality that doesn't mean it always happens.

Thugs (like bullies) use their power to gain power. That doesn't mean that people in power are all thugs or that they all act like bullies.

The verse isn't an absolute maxim that guarantees peace and harmony if followed, anymore than the proverbs are always specific truths, but the principle remains.  If the girl had put away her phone then all would have been fine.

Funny how some people on this forum make Obama the exception.

Your mode of operation I respect, ratboy, not so much.  Your "some people" gives enough wiggle room that I can assume you weren't addressing me, but if you were, what about Obama have I said that lines up with your point?

No worries. My Obama comment wasn't directed toward you. Just used your comment to gore someone else's ox. I'm not an Obama fan and would not vote for him but if God sets up the government, if Obama brings America down, it would be within God's allowance. Some (not you) tend to give Obama more power over the Christian value system as if he single-handedly shuts out God's will. Sorry to pull the thread off track.

 

[The Rogue Tomato]

No worries. My Obama comment wasn't directed toward you. Just used your comment to gore someone else's ox. I'm not an Obama fan and would not vote for him but if God sets up the government, if Obama brings America down, it would be within God's allowance. Some (not you) tend to give Obama more power over the Christian value system as if he single-handedly shuts out God's will. Sorry to pull the thread off track.

I have no trouble believing Obama is God's punishment for America.

 

[FSSL]

As to the question in the OP,  I have no idea if he is a hero or a rogue cop.   I am curious to know what would be an effective way to remove a belligerent student who refuses to move.  Surely police are trained to legally handle such matters.

You see the video of a child being assaulted just as clear as we do.

You err in assuming I watched the video. I do not watch videos posted here or on news sites which state that a person is being assaulted.  Can't stomach it.

Sheesh is this a joke? If not, you are truly psychotic.

You "can't stomach" watching videos of assault victim yet you can verbally attack them calling them names like beligerent?
all for texting quietly on her phone? We wouldn't want you to feel uncomfortable badmouthing that girl whose arm is in a cast,  bruses on her body, with major back problems. As long as you are feeling comfortable while you spout verbal abuse at a crime victim that is all we care about. She could live in an apartment complex too, imagine that!!
Get a job lady.... [snip...]

****admin note****
Settle down and don't get personal. Your comments against jrchurch are uncalled for. No one deserves this kind of abuse. Final warning... permanent ban follows. In fact, I am expecting your next post to be an honest apology to jrchurch with a commitment to post without bad language and personal attack.

Biker... read and respond.

 

[Smellin Coffee]

Funny how some people on this forum make Obama the exception.

this is true...... but the political bias and hypocrisy goes both ways.........not intending to take the thread off topic... but rmember all the dubya jokes and downright nasty personal insults made against him when he was president?.....remember all the degrading impersonations done of him by comedians on tv?...... some of the same people who perpetuated all that are the very ones today declaring obama "untouchable" and labelling anyone who speaks negatively of obama as a racist and a bigot..... ...... obama seems to believe the word "president" should be redefined and made synonymous to"king"....... but there is no doubt he would reverse those sentiments if the other party was in the white house.........

Yep. The 2 political parties are different edges of the same blade.

 

[subllibrm]

This all never would have happened if they had sent her here:

http://www.hephzibahhouse.org/

8)

 

[biscuit1953]

This all never would have happened if they had sent her here:

http://www.hephzibahhouse.org/

8)

This all never would have happened if  Black people would have quit blaming their behaviour on White racism while being encouraged by White liberals like Smelling Coffee to play  the victim card.  Just saying.

 

[subllibrm]

This all never would have happened if  Black people would have quit blaming their behaviour on White racism while being encouraged by White liberals like Smelling Coffee to play  the victim card.  Just saying.

Them people jus' needs to know their place.  :

 

[biscuit1953]

This all never would have happened if  Black people would have quit blaming their behaviour on White racism while being encouraged by White liberals like Smelling Coffee to play  the victim card.  Just saying.

Them people jus' needs to know their place.  :

Once again you brush all White people as racists because they believe there should be one standard of behaviour.  Not the double standard that is promoted, encouraged and enforced by President Obama.
http://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2014/01/eric-holder-wants-race-based-quotas-on-school-discipline-too-many-blacks-are-suspended/

 

[subllibrm]

This all never would have happened if  Black people would have quit blaming their behaviour on White racism while being encouraged by White liberals like Smelling Coffee to play  the victim card.  Just saying.

Them people jus' needs to know their place.  :

Once again you brush all White people as racists because they believe there should be one standard of behaviour.  Not the double standard that is promoted, encouraged and enforced by President Obama.
http://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2014/01/eric-holder-wants-race-based-quotas-on-school-discipline-too-many-blacks-are-suspended/

So getting pulled over for "driving black" would stop if they would all jus' know their place.

 

[biscuit1953]

This all never would have happened if  Black people would have quit blaming their behaviour on White racism while being encouraged by White liberals like Smelling Coffee to play  the victim card.  Just saying.

Them people jus' needs to know their place.  :

Once again you brush all White people as racists because they believe there should be one standard of behaviour.  Not the double standard that is promoted, encouraged and enforced by President Obama.
http://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2014/01/eric-holder-wants-race-based-quotas-on-school-discipline-too-many-blacks-are-suspended/

So getting pulled over for "driving black" would stop if they would all jus' know their place.

I rest my case.

[youtube]ODmc6GP7MT4[/youtube]
http://toprightnews.com/she-accuses-police-officers-of-stopping-her-for-walking-while-black-then-this-video-shows-up/