Billy Graham: Why The Hate?

[subllibrm]

I watched a live stream of a Franklin Graham crusade last night. My daughter singing in the community choir for the Oklahoma City meetings this weekend. He briefly mentioned his father and that Billy Graham is now 97!!!

Afterward, I got thinking about all the negative nasty things I have heard here leveled at Billy Graham. All those years, all those rallies, meetings, crusades, all that travel and he never showed up in the news doing the perp walk. Makes me wonder what motivated all the negative from within the church.

The only thing I could come up with was envy.

 

[TonyHutsonComedian]

Graham was heavily criticized (especially by Tony Hutson, Jack Trieber, and Jack Hyles) because Graham endorsed TBN's prosperity gospel and he associated with celebrities who were known for their extra curricular activities. Plus Graham was real tight with Paul & Jan Crouch and Hyles had a problem with that as did Tony Hutson and Larry Brown who both make fun of the TBN preachers in their sermons.

 

[subllibrm]

Graham was heavily criticized (especially by Tony Hutson, Jack Trieber, and Jack Hyles) because Graham endorsed TBN's prosperity gospel and he associated with celebrities who were known for their extra curricular activities. Plus Graham was real tight with Paul & Jan Crouch and Hyles had a problem with that as did Tony Hutson and Larry Brown who both make fun of the TBN preachers in their sermons.

Oh those guys are just pikers and pretenders. Billy Graham has had someone sniping at him right from the start. Bob Jones the eldest had no problem blaming everything wrong with the world, short of the outbreak of psoriasis ,on Graham. And even then he maintained a strong suspicion.

 

[IFB X-Files]

I believe "hate" is the wrong word.  Graham's compromise with moderates, liberals and Rome is well documented.  If someone came forward during a crusade with a RC background, they would pair them with a RC counselor.  Why would Bible-believers promote such things?

I attended a Graham crusade in San Diego in 1976.  It was something to see and observe.

 

[rsc2a]

Are you asking why Bible believers would support folks who cover up for pedophiles, trump up their own importance and seek to control their members by adding extra-biblical standards to the teachings of Scripture?

 

[IFB X-Files]

Are you asking why Bible believers would support folks who cover up for pedophiles, trump up their own importance and seek to control their members by adding extra-biblical standards to the teachings of Scripture?

Well, the OP was about BG, but if you want to include a large part of the IFB, then let's do it.

 

[Ransom]

Graham was heavily criticized (especially by Tony Hutson, Jack Trieber, and Jack Hyles)

Since when do the opinions of Hutson, Treiber and Hyles matter beyond a  ten-foot radius of their persons?

 

[Fresh Air]

I believe "hate" is the wrong word.  Graham's compromise with moderates, liberals and Rome is well documented.  If someone came forward during a crusade with a RC background, they would pair them with a RC counselor.  Why would Bible-believers promote such things?

That's where you must start in any discussion of Billy Graham (though there are other issues as well). It is absolutely inexcusable. I am perfectly willing to admit his long and exemplary life. I am heartily glad for it. But that doesn't outweigh being a complete disaster in terms of ecclesiastical separation. In that sense, Billy Graham is the father of Rick Warren, and of much that is weak in American Christianity.

 

[TonyHutsonComedian]

Jack Schaap even took to criticizing Graham as well as Franklyn Graham since Franklyn Graham heavily promoted TBN and the prosperity gospel as well as the false doctrine of Hillsong. You should hear what comedians Tony Hutson and Larry Brown have to say about Hillsong. Brown calls them "pagans" while Hutson calls them "straight out of hell".

 

[rsc2a]

How dare he take John 17:21 seriously!?!

 

[HeDied4U]

Graham was heavily criticized (especially by Tony Hutson, Jack Trieber, and Jack Hyles)

Since when do the opinions of Hutson, Treiber and Hyles matter beyond a  ten-foot radius of their persons?

10 feet is being rather generous, dontchathink? LOL!

 

[Bruh]

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=lCgpUPHkgc8

Pretty much sums it up.

 

[subllibrm]

A wise man once said there will be two things that surprise us in heaven, who is there and who is not there.

 

[praise_yeshua]

I don't hate Billy Graham. But, I question his salvation message.

More specifically, his fourth point regarding salvation: (I think he puts the cart before the horse)

"Fourth, we must understand the cost of coming to Christ and following Christ. Jesus constantly called upon those who would follow Him to count the cost. A person must determine to leave his sins behind and turn from them. Some people may be unwilling to do so. And there may be other costs as well when we decide to follow Christ. In some cultures, a person who turns to Christ may be disowned by family, alienated from social life, imprisoned or even killed.

The ultimate cost of true discipleship is the cost of renouncing self: self-will, self-plans, self-motivations. Christ is to be Lord of our lives. Jesus declared, “If anyone would come after me, he must deny himself and take up his cross daily and follow me” (Luke 9:23, NIV). Jesus does not call us to a life of selfish comfort and ease–He calls us to a battle! He calls us to give up our own plans and to follow Him without reserve–even to death.

Yes, it costs to follow Christ. But it also costs not to follow Christ. It cost the Apostle Paul the prestige of a high-level position in the Jewish nation. But he declared, “whatever was to my profit I now consider loss for the sake of Christ. What is more, I consider everything a loss compared to the surpassing greatness of knowing Christ Jesus my Lord, for whose sake I have lost all things” (Philippians 3:7-8, NIV). Christ calls men and women not only to trust Him as Savior, but also to follow Him as Lord."

http://billygraham.org/story/have-you-heard-the-good-news-of-salvation/

Jesus brought up something important to the rich young ruler......something that he refused to turn away from.

You either come empty handed or you don't come at all. The absolute abandonment of a man's way... is the only way to Christ.

I remember when I got saved. I had asked God to save me before. Several times. This time, I wasn't holding on to anything. Far too many people are talking the "just in case" route. I'll just do it to get it out of the way and maybe its true.... maybe it isn't. I don't know!!!!

That's not faith. Faith is believing God and abandoning everything else.

 

[praise_yeshua]

I don't hate Billy Graham. But, I question his salvation message.

More specifically, his fourth point regarding salvation: (I think he puts the cart before the horse)

"Fourth, we must understand the cost of coming to Christ and following Christ. Jesus constantly called upon those who would follow Him to count the cost. A person must determine to leave his sins behind and turn from them. Some people may be unwilling to do so. And there may be other costs as well when we decide to follow Christ. In some cultures, a person who turns to Christ may be disowned by family, alienated from social life, imprisoned or even killed.

The ultimate cost of true discipleship is the cost of renouncing self: self-will, self-plans, self-motivations. Christ is to be Lord of our lives. Jesus declared, “If anyone would come after me, he must deny himself and take up his cross daily and follow me” (Luke 9:23, NIV). Jesus does not call us to a life of selfish comfort and ease–He calls us to a battle! He calls us to give up our own plans and to follow Him without reserve–even to death.

Yes, it costs to follow Christ. But it also costs not to follow Christ. It cost the Apostle Paul the prestige of a high-level position in the Jewish nation. But he declared, “whatever was to my profit I now consider loss for the sake of Christ. What is more, I consider everything a loss compared to the surpassing greatness of knowing Christ Jesus my Lord, for whose sake I have lost all things” (Philippians 3:7-8, NIV). Christ calls men and women not only to trust Him as Savior, but also to follow Him as Lord."

http://billygraham.org/story/have-you-heard-the-good-news-of-salvation/

Jesus brought up something important to the rich young ruler......something that he refused to turn away from.

You either come empty handed or you don't come at all. The absolute abandonment of a man's way... is the only way to Christ.

I remember when I got saved. I had asked God to save me before. Several times. This time, I wasn't holding on to anything. Far too many people are talking the "just in case" route. I'll just do it to get it out of the way and maybe its true.... maybe it isn't. I don't know!!!!

That's not faith. Faith is believing God and abandoning everything else.

For salvation you must believe that instead of working for this salvation, Jesus has already done what needs to be done. We receive it. "As many as received him, who believed in his name, he gave them the right to become the children of God." - John Piper

http://www.desiringgod.org/interviews/what-must-someone-believe-in-order-to-be-saved

The article above gives an idea of what I believe regarding salvation. His words are far more better than anything I could write right now.

But - let me add - when it comes to the Rich Young Ruler encounter. I think that man, and Christ Jesus, knew that he was trusting  riches more than Christ Jesus. I don't believe Jesus asks us to sell everything prior to following him - that example was unique. But - once we today accept the gift Jesus may ask us to pack up our homes and move to Africa.

I think Billy Graham has tailored his method of sharing the gospel to match that of a man blind or forgetful of what it was like to hear the gospel for the first time, see the need to accept this gift of eternal life, and begin a life under Jesus Christ. The simple gospel message takes a great amount of faith.

I have children who have accepted the gift. Their minds are young and they don't think deep like grown men. They see their need to accept the gift. And they understand that only Jesus Saves.

So you're actually going to post a video of a borderline hyper-Calvinist and talk of how Graham's message is wrong?

Really?

Good grief man. Piper is down right NUT.

Why do you care if you believe like Piper????Are you one of those NUTS that believe man is drawn irresistible of his own freewill? That God subdues the rebellious spirit in some men and enjoys sending his exactly identical neighbor to hell... and passing him bye?

You don't have ANYTHING to say against Graham if you believe this junk!!!!!!!!

 

[praise_yeshua]

I don't hate Billy Graham. But, I question his salvation message.

More specifically, his fourth point regarding salvation: (I think he puts the cart before the horse)

"Fourth, we must understand the cost of coming to Christ and following Christ. Jesus constantly called upon those who would follow Him to count the cost. A person must determine to leave his sins behind and turn from them. Some people may be unwilling to do so. And there may be other costs as well when we decide to follow Christ. In some cultures, a person who turns to Christ may be disowned by family, alienated from social life, imprisoned or even killed.

The ultimate cost of true discipleship is the cost of renouncing self: self-will, self-plans, self-motivations. Christ is to be Lord of our lives. Jesus declared, “If anyone would come after me, he must deny himself and take up his cross daily and follow me” (Luke 9:23, NIV). Jesus does not call us to a life of selfish comfort and ease–He calls us to a battle! He calls us to give up our own plans and to follow Him without reserve–even to death.

Yes, it costs to follow Christ. But it also costs not to follow Christ. It cost the Apostle Paul the prestige of a high-level position in the Jewish nation. But he declared, “whatever was to my profit I now consider loss for the sake of Christ. What is more, I consider everything a loss compared to the surpassing greatness of knowing Christ Jesus my Lord, for whose sake I have lost all things” (Philippians 3:7-8, NIV). Christ calls men and women not only to trust Him as Savior, but also to follow Him as Lord."

http://billygraham.org/story/have-you-heard-the-good-news-of-salvation/

Jesus brought up something important to the rich young ruler......something that he refused to turn away from.

You either come empty handed or you don't come at all. The absolute abandonment of a man's way... is the only way to Christ.

I remember when I got saved. I had asked God to save me before. Several times. This time, I wasn't holding on to anything. Far too many people are talking the "just in case" route. I'll just do it to get it out of the way and maybe its true.... maybe it isn't. I don't know!!!!

That's not faith. Faith is believing God and abandoning everything else.

For salvation you must believe that instead of working for this salvation, Jesus has already done what needs to be done. We receive it. "As many as received him, who believed in his name, he gave them the right to become the children of God." - John Piper

http://www.desiringgod.org/interviews/what-must-someone-believe-in-order-to-be-saved

The article above gives an idea of what I believe regarding salvation. His words are far more better than anything I could write right now.

But - let me add - when it comes to the Rich Young Ruler encounter. I think that man, and Christ Jesus, knew that he was trusting  riches more than Christ Jesus. I don't believe Jesus asks us to sell everything prior to following him - that example was unique. But - once we today accept the gift Jesus may ask us to pack up our homes and move to Africa.

I think Billy Graham has tailored his method of sharing the gospel to match that of a man blind or forgetful of what it was like to hear the gospel for the first time, see the need to accept this gift of eternal life, and begin a life under Jesus Christ. The simple gospel message takes a great amount of faith.

I have children who have accepted the gift. Their minds are young and they don't think deep like grown men. They see their need to accept the gift. And they understand that only Jesus Saves.

So you're actually going to post a video of a borderline hyper-Calvinist and talk of how Graham's message is wrong?

Really?

Good grief man. Piper is down right NUT.

Why do you care if you believe like Piper????Are you one of those NUTS that believe man is drawn irresistible of his own freewill? That God subdues the rebellious spirit in some men and enjoys sending his exactly identical neighbor to hell... and passing him bye?

You don't a ANYTHING to say against Graham if you believe this junk!!!!!!!!

I didn't say I endorse everything Piper writes or says. I find the specific article linked a good representation of what I believe in regards to salvation. I find Billy Graham is adding to the gospel. And it seems you might be as well. Piper might not have the best theology regarding how God works - but he seems to understand a man is saved simply by accepting Christ Jesus.

I suppose the only thing we can't hold onto is another method to be right with God. Jesus is the only savior. Only he stands as my mediator.

I didn't add anything.

Question for you....

How does a man simply believe God in accepting Jesus Christ and hold on to anything? To believe God is to abandon everything you believe and face them just as God sees them.

I don't think Graham is saying anything different than what I just said. He's just saying it differently.

 

[rsc2a]

The unsaved man learns he needs Jesus (Holy Spirit draws him) - the saved man learns he needs to obey Jesus (Holy Spirit instructs).

Hopefully the saved man is learning that he needs Jesus too, or he'll never be able to obey Jesus.

 

[subllibrm]

Piper and Graham say the same thing about salvation, that it is through Jesus.

 

[praise_yeshua]

Piper and Graham say the same thing about salvation, that it is through Jesus.

Not even close. Why are you conflating the two entirely different approaches?

 

[praise_yeshua]

I don't hate Billy Graham. But, I question his salvation message.

More specifically, his fourth point regarding salvation: (I think he puts the cart before the horse)

"Fourth, we must understand the cost of coming to Christ and following Christ. Jesus constantly called upon those who would follow Him to count the cost. A person must determine to leave his sins behind and turn from them. Some people may be unwilling to do so. And there may be other costs as well when we decide to follow Christ. In some cultures, a person who turns to Christ may be disowned by family, alienated from social life, imprisoned or even killed.

The ultimate cost of true discipleship is the cost of renouncing self: self-will, self-plans, self-motivations. Christ is to be Lord of our lives. Jesus declared, “If anyone would come after me, he must deny himself and take up his cross daily and follow me” (Luke 9:23, NIV). Jesus does not call us to a life of selfish comfort and ease–He calls us to a battle! He calls us to give up our own plans and to follow Him without reserve–even to death.

Yes, it costs to follow Christ. But it also costs not to follow Christ. It cost the Apostle Paul the prestige of a high-level position in the Jewish nation. But he declared, “whatever was to my profit I now consider loss for the sake of Christ. What is more, I consider everything a loss compared to the surpassing greatness of knowing Christ Jesus my Lord, for whose sake I have lost all things” (Philippians 3:7-8, NIV). Christ calls men and women not only to trust Him as Savior, but also to follow Him as Lord."

http://billygraham.org/story/have-you-heard-the-good-news-of-salvation/

Jesus brought up something important to the rich young ruler......something that he refused to turn away from.

You either come empty handed or you don't come at all. The absolute abandonment of a man's way... is the only way to Christ.

I remember when I got saved. I had asked God to save me before. Several times. This time, I wasn't holding on to anything. Far too many people are talking the "just in case" route. I'll just do it to get it out of the way and maybe its true.... maybe it isn't. I don't know!!!!

That's not faith. Faith is believing God and abandoning everything else.

For salvation you must believe that instead of working for this salvation, Jesus has already done what needs to be done. We receive it. "As many as received him, who believed in his name, he gave them the right to become the children of God." - John Piper

http://www.desiringgod.org/interviews/what-must-someone-believe-in-order-to-be-saved

The article above gives an idea of what I believe regarding salvation. His words are far more better than anything I could write right now.

But - let me add - when it comes to the Rich Young Ruler encounter. I think that man, and Christ Jesus, knew that he was trusting  riches more than Christ Jesus. I don't believe Jesus asks us to sell everything prior to following him - that example was unique. But - once we today accept the gift Jesus may ask us to pack up our homes and move to Africa.

I think Billy Graham has tailored his method of sharing the gospel to match that of a man blind or forgetful of what it was like to hear the gospel for the first time, see the need to accept this gift of eternal life, and begin a life under Jesus Christ. The simple gospel message takes a great amount of faith.

I have children who have accepted the gift. Their minds are young and they don't think deep like grown men. They see their need to accept the gift. And they understand that only Jesus Saves.

So you're actually going to post a video of a borderline hyper-Calvinist and talk of how Graham's message is wrong?

Really?

Good grief man. Piper is down right NUT.

Why do you care if you believe like Piper????Are you one of those NUTS that believe man is drawn irresistible of his own freewill? That God subdues the rebellious spirit in some men and enjoys sending his exactly identical neighbor to hell... and passing him bye?

You don't a ANYTHING to say against Graham if you believe this junk!!!!!!!!

I didn't say I endorse everything Piper writes or says. I find the specific article linked a good representation of what I believe in regards to salvation. I find Billy Graham is adding to the gospel. And it seems you might be as well. Piper might not have the best theology regarding how God works - but he seems to understand a man is saved simply by accepting Christ Jesus.

I suppose the only thing we can't hold onto is another method to be right with God. Jesus is the only savior. Only he stands as my mediator.

I didn't add anything.

Question for you....

How does a man simply believe God in accepting Jesus Christ and hold on to anything? To believe God is to abandon everything you believe and face them just as God sees them.

I don't think Graham is saying anything different than what I just said. He's just saying it differently.

A man who sees his condition, sees the solution, accepts the solution holds onto a glorious hope of eternal life for one! That and the knowledge that his sins are now as far as the east is from the west. He can rest from working and worrying about his souls condition - Jesus gives peace.

And he develops a fear of God. A desire to serve and obey. See - I said already that Billy Graham is putting the cart before the horse. Only the saved man can see the need to make Jesus Lord of his life - not the man looking curiously at salvation from the outside. The unsaved man learns he needs Jesus (Holy Spirit draws him) - the saved man learns he needs to obey Jesus (Holy Spirit instructs).

That is how I see it when I study the Bible anyway.

Why didn't you answer the question I asked? I know why..... You know the answer is clear and goes against what you're saying.

I can't believe you said "Only the saved man can see the need to make Jesus Lord of his life"

Do you know how stupid that is? Do you even know its essential that every man confess Jesus Christ as Lord? Are you really that lost in this?

A person can not be saved apart from making Jesus Christ the Lord of his life. You've bought the silly rhetoric of NUTS like Piper to the point its impossible for you to believe the Scriptures.