Billy Makes His Case

[16KJV11]

Don't have time to comment on much here, but one thing struck me:
Am I supposed to share a platform with people who I doctrinally disagree with for the sake of some kind of relational unity or to be relevant? 
Billy mentioned pairing up with the Nazarene church.
I went to a Nazarene church here in the area to attend a funeral, the preacher did a pretty good job presenting the gospel until he went off into having to persevere unto the end, or something like that.
He basically was preaching a 'works salvation'.
There is no way that I am going to pair up with a church like that.

 

[FSSL]

the point is....... why can;t baptists be more involved in ministries like this?

Perhaps your world-view of baptists is a bit myopic. Our church has many outreach ministries, too varied to mention!

 

[The Rogue Tomato]

Another X-Xer trying to schedule the funeral of IFBaptist churches.

The last people to realize that they are already dead are zombies.

Do you know what staves off zombies?

according to one zombie apocalypse prepper i know...... only humans are affected by the bite of a zombie..... so animals trained to track and kill zombies would be an effective defense...... but then there are others who disagree and say some animals... (unfortunately those with close ties to humans... like dogs etc...)... will be affected by the zombies bite and therefor turned into zombies themselves........ so....... the best thing might just be to outfit an anti-zombie mobile and take to the hills..... or to somewhere..... wherever the zombies aren;t.......  8)

Nah.  Go old school and use a crowbar and a chainsaw.

 

[Green Beret]

Another X-Xer trying to schedule the funeral of IFBaptist churches.

The last people to realize that they are already dead are zombies.

Do you know what staves off zombies?

oh yeah... i almost forgot.... these are supposed to work really well too....... makes the dead even deader..... and converts the undead into the real dead......
supposed to be pretty expensive too.... but still cheaper than the silver tipped version made for werewolves and the ultraviolet light infused bullets made for vampires.....  8)

Now that is more my speed. Thanks for the "tip"!

 

[Biker]

[quote author=subllibrm]

If I could sum up what Billy and all the others are saying it is "adapt or die". We are to  minister in the context of the world we live in, not the one we used to live in.[/quote]
Absolutely true. If you truly adapt to the world we live in, you will die. We are Aliens and Strangers here. This is not our world, our citizenship is in Heaven.

Phil 3:20 For our [a]citizenship is in heaven, from which also we eagerly wait for a Savior, the Lord Jesus Christ;

1 Peter 2:11 Beloved, I urge you as aliens and strangers to abstain from fleshly lusts which wage war against the soul.

Ephesians 2:19 So then you are no longer strangers and aliens, but you are fellow citizens with the saints, and are of God's household[/u], 20having been built on the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Christ Jesus Himself being the corner stone

Our culture is changing at a breakneck pace and the church needs to have some plan (and willingness) to adjust to those changes.

The plan is the Gospel. Preach it so they may be saved. Let the holy spirit do it's job. Then they too, will join Gods household

  Ozzie and Harriet are dead. We can't go back.

The Boob Tube has nothing to do with scripture or portraying the Christian way of life

We can't stand still. We must be aware of the world views of those we would seek to reach.

Romans 12:2 Do not be conformed to this world,[a] but be transformed by the renewal of your mind, that by testing you may discern what is the will of God, what is good and acceptable and perfect

It's not about you
It's not about you

You won't understand their culture because you are a FOREIGNER HERE, if... you are truly saved.  Trying to prevent the renewal of your mind and replace it with trying to understand the culture of darkness is frankly, scary. That is a deceitful desire.

Ephesians 4:22
You were taught, with regard to your former way of life, to put off your old self, which is being corrupted by its deceitful desires;

Much as the missionary has to "figure out" the culture of the people group he is working with and tailor the gospel presentation accordingly, we have to understand the people group that America is becoming.

You are not a Missionary, you speak and live in the same culture, they do not. No comparison at all.
There is no "tailoring the Gospel" to a certain culture. Especially for you, not being a Missionary with a language barrier coming into play
Your plan of tricks, sneaky schemes, or special" technique" to tailor our Lords Gospel as if it can't stand alone is a lie. GOD has it down pat, you don't need to modify his Gospel or present it in any specific way except what he's commanded, in Love.His holy spirit is able to transform anyone
For through the grace given to me I say to everyone among you not to think more highly of himself than he ought to think;

The best comparative example I can think of is the Amish. They have diligently clung to the old ways and are now a cultural curiosity. Not dead but certainly not impacting the world around them. IFB is becoming, by choice and design, an ingrown sect.

This wicked religous sect and their impact on the world, pay no mind to it. Keep your mind set on the things of above, not the temporal which perishes.
Any other theology but our own local church doesn't need to be of concern to us. Neither does the IFB, SBC, or any secular conventions or organizations trying to do the churches work assigned to the local church, including MORMONS, JW, CATHOLICS or whomever. Everytime this becomes a distraction, open your bible and study.
This dung is the highway to hell. Not the narrow pathway to life. Remember the first tribulation? Only Noah and his family survived because they were the ONLY righteous one's on earth. Let the world be, it has nothing to offer you

 

[Frag]

[quote author=subllibrm]

If I could sum up what Billy and all the others are saying it is "adapt or die". We are to  minister in the context of the world we live in, not the one we used to live in.

Absolutely true. If you truly adapt to the world we live in, you will die. We are Aliens and Strangers here. This is not our world, our citizenship is in Heaven.

Phil 3:20 For our [a]citizenship is in heaven, from which also we eagerly wait for a Savior, the Lord Jesus Christ;

1 Peter 2:11 Beloved, I urge you as aliens and strangers to abstain from fleshly lusts which wage war against the soul.

Ephesians 2:19 So then you are no longer strangers and aliens, but you are fellow citizens with the saints, and are of God's household[/u], 20having been built on the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Christ Jesus Himself being the corner stone

Our culture is changing at a breakneck pace and the church needs to have some plan (and willingness) to adjust to those changes.

The plan is the Gospel. Preach it so they may be saved. Let the holy spirit do it's job. Then they too, will join Gods household

  Ozzie and Harriet are dead. We can't go back.

The Boob Tube has nothing to do with scripture or portraying the Christian way of life

We can't stand still. We must be aware of the world views of those we would seek to reach.

Romans 12:2 Do not be conformed to this world,[a] but be transformed by the renewal of your mind, that by testing you may discern what is the will of God, what is good and acceptable and perfect

It's not about you
It's not about you

You won't understand their culture because you are a FOREIGNER HERE, if... you are truly saved.  Trying to prevent the renewal of your mind and replace it with trying to understand the culture of darkness is frankly, scary. That is a deceitful desire.

Ephesians 4:22
You were taught, with regard to your former way of life, to put off your old self, which is being corrupted by its deceitful desires;

Much as the missionary has to "figure out" the culture of the people group he is working with and tailor the gospel presentation accordingly, we have to understand the people group that America is becoming.

You are not a Missionary, you speak and live in the same culture, they do not. No comparison at all.
There is no "tailoring the Gospel" to a certain culture. Especially for you, not being a Missionary with a language barrier coming into play
Your plan of tricks, sneaky schemes, or special" technique" to tailor our Lords Gospel as if it can't stand alone is a lie. GOD has it down pat, you don't need to modify his Gospel or present it in any specific way except what he's commanded, in Love.His holy spirit is able to transform anyone
For through the grace given to me I say to everyone among you not to think more highly of himself than he ought to think;

The best comparative example I can think of is the Amish. They have diligently clung to the old ways and are now a cultural curiosity. Not dead but certainly not impacting the world around them. IFB is becoming, by choice and design, an ingrown sect.

This wicked religous sect and their impact on the world, pay no mind to it. Keep your mind set on the things of above, not the temporal which perishes.
Any other theology but our own local church doesn't need to be of concern to us. Neither does the IFB, SBC, or any secular conventions or organizations trying to do the churches work assigned to the local church, including MORMONS, JW, CATHOLICS or whomever. Everytime this becomes a distraction, open your bible and study.
This dung is the highway to hell. Not the narrow pathway to life. Remember the first tribulation? Only Noah and his family survived because they were the ONLY righteous one's on earth. Let the world be, it has nothing to offer you
[/quote]


EXCELLENT!  Nice post, Biker.

 

[Frag]

I can't remember the last time I actually saw a church BUS running around town on Sunday morning or the last time someone knocked on my door soul-huntin'. Thirty years ago it was common to see several buses from one church around a city.

Seen a church van every once in awhile but mostly taking a group of church members to an event like a concert or another church to visit and had the Jehovah Witnesses and Mormons come to the door every great once in awhile but not the Fundamentalists. They must be doing a bang-up job somewhere....just not in the last three communities I have lived. Hmmm...

How sad!  And yet there are still young people out there who could and would be reached if someone would just go.  Sounds like a great opportunity for you, JJ.  No competition.  Kids going to hell.  Just think, instead of driving to church in your air conditioned car, you could go to your pastor, ask for a bus, and every week bring 40-70 people with you to church.  You could have an ETERNAL impact on their lives.  You could see many saved and baptized.  Some might be called into the ministry.  You could see their families reached and added to the congregation.  Wide open opportunity!!!  What are you going to do about it?

Course it would NEVER have the same eternal impact as getting to church in time to sit at the coffee shop in the foyer and chat with others about short comings of IFB churches.....

 

[Frag]

IFB colleges are closing or leaving the movement. A popular IFB seminary just closed its doors. Matriculation is down exponentially in many IFB bible colleges.

Absolutely not true. 

The two IFB colleges we send students too have both doubled in attendance over the last five years. 

You are judging the health of IFB colleges on the basis of a few.  When I went to Bible college in the late 70s, there were only a few to chose from.  Now, the trend is MORE regional IFB colleges and institutes and FEWER national IFB colleges. 
Instead of a few running 2-3 thousand each, we have 100 running 50 to 400 each.  Smarter, healthier, and more accessible.  Many of those attending regional Bible colleges get the opportunity to spend the weekends at home helping in their home ministry and being a blessing to their home pastors. 

Also, more and more pastors are choosing to bypass sending their young men to Bible college at all.  Instead, they disciple and train them in their own home church. 

I would not be surprised if there are now MORE young people being trained for ministry in IFB churches and colleges than there were in the late 70s. 

 

[Frag]

I can't remember the last time I actually saw a church BUS running around town on Sunday morning or the last time someone knocked on my door soul-huntin'. Thirty years ago it was common to see several buses from one church around a city.

Seen a church van every once in awhile but mostly taking a group of church members to an event like a concert or another church to visit and had the Jehovah Witnesses and Mormons come to the door every great once in awhile but not the Fundamentalists. They must be doing a bang-up job somewhere....just not in the last three communities I have lived. Hmmm...

i mean no offense.... but ... who is going out to reach people in the communities you have lived in?......... as someone who was saved through a baptist church bus ministry as a child i find it pretty disheartening to know that kind of thing is no longer being done....... and not even some variation of it........  even sadder to know that ex-baptists .. for all of their criticism of what the ifbs did wrong.... aren;t stepping up to fill in the gaps of one of the things the ifbs did right... .. and which many say is now faltering.. some even appearing to find amusement in it;s demise....  :-\......do they think it was not a worthwhile ministry?......... 

Amen, sis.  Just saw your post.  You said it better than I did....

 

[Frag]

I think that the bus ministry was, in it's day, an effective and fruitful ministry.

Yesterday was still "it's day".

7 saved that rode in on a bus.  9 families sitting in my church that were reached through the bus ministry in the past two years.  It still works!  That has never been the problem.  The problem is that it TAKES WORK.  And most casual Christians just don't have the dedication to make the sacrifice.

An aspect of the bus ministry that is lost in the numbers game is this:  last year we had 13 young people in Bible college preparing for ministry.  Three of those were once bus kids.  But 9 OF THE OTHER TEN worked on a bus route as teenagers.  The wonder of the bus ministry is not just the people reached, but the miracle God works in the hearts of the young people who lose themselves each weekend in reaching others for Christ!

 

[Tarheel Baptist]

I think that the bus ministry was, in it's day, an effective and fruitful ministry.

Yesterday was still "it's day".

7 saved that rode in on a bus.  9 families sitting in my church that were reached through the bus ministry in the past two years.  It still works!  That has never been the problem.  The problem is that it TAKES WORK.  And most casual Christians just don't have the dedication to make the sacrifice.

An aspect of the bus ministry that is lost in the numbers game is this:  last year we had 13 young people in Bible college preparing for ministry.  Three of those were once bus kids.  But 9 OF THE OTHER TEN worked on a bus route as teenagers.  The wonder of the bus ministry is not just the people reached, but the miracle God works in the hearts of the young people who lose themselves each weekend in reaching others for Christ!

And I think that's great!
Our young people, about 20, just finished basically running our Junior Camp.
We have 10 of our college kids on long term (4-6 weeks) mission trips this summer...and we don't have a bus ministry.

I applaud anything that furthers the cause of Christ, but the truth is Bus Ministry is not the most effective way to reach people today, as it once was.

Our kids and a few adults are at a local housing project every day this summer with a lunch program that included Bible instruction and evangelism. We  hope to establish an adult ministry there...with the ultimate goal of reaching them with the Gospel.

IMHO, that is one of the problems with the IFB movement...they take a ministry...a method...a.k.a. the bus ministry and make it a badge of honor or disdain, depending on whether or not you keep the busses rolling.
Whether or not you have or don't have a particular ministry...or Bible version....or dress standard (outside modesty) determines whether or not you're right or Biblical....please!

That's a crock!

 

[Frag]

Yep.  We're almost as bad as those who feel the need to declare the bus ministry as no longer "effective or fruitful" in order to defend why they do not have one. 

 

[kaba]

Our teens are very active in our visiting program. They visit every saturday for close to three hours. We run a bus on Sunday and also one on Wed for Awanas. They willingly ride the bus and help, they also are leaders in training for Awanas. VBS is BIG thing in our church and the teens always look forward to helping. Just because something is old school does not mean it isnt still effective!! As soon as our gym is completed we will start more programs for the kids in our community.

 

[Tarheel Baptist]

Yep.  We're almost as bad as those who feel the need to declare the bus ministry as no longer "effective or fruitful" in order to defend why they do not have one.

WHY would I ever feel the need to defend that?
I've been here 32 years and we've never had one!
Neither have we ever had a ministry at the village Blacksmith Shop or a Bible study at the Buggy Whip factory.

 

[Tarheel Baptist]

[quote author=subllibrm]

If I could sum up what Billy and all the others are saying it is "adapt or die". We are to  minister in the context of the world we live in, not the one we used to live in.

Absolutely true. If you truly adapt to the world we live in, you will die. We are Aliens and Strangers here. This is not our world, our citizenship is in Heaven.

Phil 3:20 For our [a]citizenship is in heaven, from which also we eagerly wait for a Savior, the Lord Jesus Christ;

1 Peter 2:11 Beloved, I urge you as aliens and strangers to abstain from fleshly lusts which wage war against the soul.

Ephesians 2:19 So then you are no longer strangers and aliens, but you are fellow citizens with the saints, and are of God's household[/u], 20having been built on the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Christ Jesus Himself being the corner stone

Our culture is changing at a breakneck pace and the church needs to have some plan (and willingness) to adjust to those changes.

The plan is the Gospel. Preach it so they may be saved. Let the holy spirit do it's job. Then they too, will join Gods household

  Ozzie and Harriet are dead. We can't go back.

The Boob Tube has nothing to do with scripture or portraying the Christian way of life

We can't stand still. We must be aware of the world views of those we would seek to reach.

Romans 12:2 Do not be conformed to this world,[a] but be transformed by the renewal of your mind, that by testing you may discern what is the will of God, what is good and acceptable and perfect

It's not about you
It's not about you

You won't understand their culture because you are a FOREIGNER HERE, if... you are truly saved.  Trying to prevent the renewal of your mind and replace it with trying to understand the culture of darkness is frankly, scary. That is a deceitful desire.

Ephesians 4:22
You were taught, with regard to your former way of life, to put off your old self, which is being corrupted by its deceitful desires;

Much as the missionary has to "figure out" the culture of the people group he is working with and tailor the gospel presentation accordingly, we have to understand the people group that America is becoming.

You are not a Missionary, you speak and live in the same culture, they do not. No comparison at all.
There is no "tailoring the Gospel" to a certain culture. Especially for you, not being a Missionary with a language barrier coming into play
Your plan of tricks, sneaky schemes, or special" technique" to tailor our Lords Gospel as if it can't stand alone is a lie. GOD has it down pat, you don't need to modify his Gospel or present it in any specific way except what he's commanded, in Love.His holy spirit is able to transform anyone
For through the grace given to me I say to everyone among you not to think more highly of himself than he ought to think;

The best comparative example I can think of is the Amish. They have diligently clung to the old ways and are now a cultural curiosity. Not dead but certainly not impacting the world around them. IFB is becoming, by choice and design, an ingrown sect.

This wicked religous sect and their impact on the world, pay no mind to it. Keep your mind set on the things of above, not the temporal which perishes.
Any other theology but our own local church doesn't need to be of concern to us. Neither does the IFB, SBC, or any secular conventions or organizations trying to do the churches work assigned to the local church, including MORMONS, JW, CATHOLICS or whomever. Everytime this becomes a distraction, open your bible and study.
This dung is the highway to hell. Not the narrow pathway to life. Remember the first tribulation? Only Noah and his family survived because they were the ONLY righteous one's on earth. Let the world be, it has nothing to offer you
[/quote]

A rare moment of lucidity for Biker.....

 

[Just John]

I can't remember the last time I actually saw a church BUS running around town on Sunday morning or the last time someone knocked on my door soul-huntin'. Thirty years ago it was common to see several buses from one church around a city.

Seen a church van every once in awhile but mostly taking a group of church members to an event like a concert or another church to visit and had the Jehovah Witnesses and Mormons come to the door every great once in awhile but not the Fundamentalists. They must be doing a bang-up job somewhere....just not in the last three communities I have lived. Hmmm...

How sad!  And yet there are still young people out there who could and would be reached if someone would just go.  Sounds like a great opportunity for you, JJ.  No competition.  Kids going to hell.  Just think, instead of driving to church in your air conditioned car, you could go to your pastor, ask for a bus, and every week bring 40-70 people with you to church.  You could have an ETERNAL impact on their lives.  You could see many saved and baptized.  Some might be called into the ministry.  You could see their families reached and added to the congregation.  Wide open opportunity!!!  What are you going to do about it?

Course it would NEVER have the same eternal impact as getting to church in time to sit at the coffee shop in the foyer and chat with others about short comings of IFB churches.....

OR.....because the IFB movement is so "strong" I can let them do it because they seem to think it's a biblical imperative. I just don't ever see it. They must drive STEALTH buses.....OR perhaps they realize it just doesn't work in every community and other outreaches do. Buses really don't work well in areas where there are a number of gated communities where parents hover over their kids and are very cynical, often for well deserved reasons. BUT I do know that things like small groups in the neighborhood DO work when you can reach the neighbor's whole family who don't go to church. Seen it many times. It's not the only way....but it's one of the best ways that worked in my community. Yes, being relevant. It's not a four-letter word.

And doing things like Celebrate Recovery, Divorce Care, Grief Share, Sunday School, Separated Men's group, Separated Women's groups. single parent's ministry, helping church members find employment, free counseling to the community (not just members), jail ministry, Mexican orphanages, food pantry, ministry to families who live in hotels (and no, no reason to bus them 30 miles to the church and pass 50 good churches on the way just to have them in the "weekly count") ESL classes, sport's ministries, etc. I could really go on and on. There are lot's of ways to do ministry and being salt and light that don't involve a bus or knocking on someone's door unannounced. I'm going to guess you don't do many of the above at your church. That's fine. They wouldn't all work in Indiana.

 

[subllibrm]

[quote author=subllibrm]

If I could sum up what Billy and all the others are saying it is "adapt or die". We are to  minister in the context of the world we live in, not the one we used to live in.

Absolutely true. If you truly adapt to the world we live in, you will die. We are Aliens and Strangers here. This is not our world, our citizenship is in Heaven.

Phil 3:20 For our [a]citizenship is in heaven, from which also we eagerly wait for a Savior, the Lord Jesus Christ;

1 Peter 2:11 Beloved, I urge you as aliens and strangers to abstain from fleshly lusts which wage war against the soul.

Ephesians 2:19 So then you are no longer strangers and aliens, but you are fellow citizens with the saints, and are of God's household[/u], 20having been built on the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Christ Jesus Himself being the corner stone

Our culture is changing at a breakneck pace and the church needs to have some plan (and willingness) to adjust to those changes.

The plan is the Gospel. Preach it so they may be saved. Let the holy spirit do it's job. Then they too, will join Gods household

  Ozzie and Harriet are dead. We can't go back.

The Boob Tube has nothing to do with scripture or portraying the Christian way of life

We can't stand still. We must be aware of the world views of those we would seek to reach.

Romans 12:2 Do not be conformed to this world,[a] but be transformed by the renewal of your mind, that by testing you may discern what is the will of God, what is good and acceptable and perfect

It's not about you
It's not about you

You won't understand their culture because you are a FOREIGNER HERE, if... you are truly saved.  Trying to prevent the renewal of your mind and replace it with trying to understand the culture of darkness is frankly, scary. That is a deceitful desire.

Ephesians 4:22
You were taught, with regard to your former way of life, to put off your old self, which is being corrupted by its deceitful desires;

Much as the missionary has to "figure out" the culture of the people group he is working with and tailor the gospel presentation accordingly, we have to understand the people group that America is becoming.

You are not a Missionary, you speak and live in the same culture, they do not. No comparison at all.
There is no "tailoring the Gospel" to a certain culture. Especially for you, not being a Missionary with a language barrier coming into play
Your plan of tricks, sneaky schemes, or special" technique" to tailor our Lords Gospel as if it can't stand alone is a lie. GOD has it down pat, you don't need to modify his Gospel or present it in any specific way except what he's commanded, in Love.His holy spirit is able to transform anyone
For through the grace given to me I say to everyone among you not to think more highly of himself than he ought to think;

The best comparative example I can think of is the Amish. They have diligently clung to the old ways and are now a cultural curiosity. Not dead but certainly not impacting the world around them. IFB is becoming, by choice and design, an ingrown sect.

This wicked religous sect and their impact on the world, pay no mind to it. Keep your mind set on the things of above, not the temporal which perishes.
Any other theology but our own local church doesn't need to be of concern to us. Neither does the IFB, SBC, or any secular conventions or organizations trying to do the churches work assigned to the local church, including MORMONS, JW, CATHOLICS or whomever. Everytime this becomes a distraction, open your bible and study.
This dung is the highway to hell. Not the narrow pathway to life. Remember the first tribulation? Only Noah and his family survived because they were the ONLY righteous one's on earth. Let the world be, it has nothing to offer you
[/quote]

I know Frag gave you props but since you and he both completely distorted what I wrote then I am not too surprised.

The adaptation refers to the method of ministry based upon the context of the culture we seek to minister to/in. Now if you truly believe that the USA is a homogeneous culture that has not changed since Ike occupied the Oval Office then I can see where you and Frag would miss my point entirely.

Methods can, do and should change. The message should never change and I have in no way suggested that it should.

 

[subllibrm]

Yep.  We're almost as bad as those who feel the need to declare the bus ministry as no longer "effective or fruitful" in order to defend why they do not have one.

We have a bus ministry and small groups. Stick that in your preconceived notions pipe and smoke it!  ;D

 

[subllibrm]

[quote author=subllibrm]

If I could sum up what Billy and all the others are saying it is "adapt or die". We are to  minister in the context of the world we live in, not the one we used to live in.

Absolutely true. If you truly adapt to the world we live in, you will die. We are Aliens and Strangers here. This is not our world, our citizenship is in Heaven.

Phil 3:20 For our [a]citizenship is in heaven, from which also we eagerly wait for a Savior, the Lord Jesus Christ;

1 Peter 2:11 Beloved, I urge you as aliens and strangers to abstain from fleshly lusts which wage war against the soul.

Ephesians 2:19 So then you are no longer strangers and aliens, but you are fellow citizens with the saints, and are of God's household[/u], 20having been built on the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Christ Jesus Himself being the corner stone

Our culture is changing at a breakneck pace and the church needs to have some plan (and willingness) to adjust to those changes.

The plan is the Gospel. Preach it so they may be saved. Let the holy spirit do it's job. Then they too, will join Gods household

  Ozzie and Harriet are dead. We can't go back.

The Boob Tube has nothing to do with scripture or portraying the Christian way of life

We can't stand still. We must be aware of the world views of those we would seek to reach.

Romans 12:2 Do not be conformed to this world,[a] but be transformed by the renewal of your mind, that by testing you may discern what is the will of God, what is good and acceptable and perfect

It's not about you
It's not about you

You won't understand their culture because you are a FOREIGNER HERE, if... you are truly saved.  Trying to prevent the renewal of your mind and replace it with trying to understand the culture of darkness is frankly, scary. That is a deceitful desire.

Ephesians 4:22
You were taught, with regard to your former way of life, to put off your old self, which is being corrupted by its deceitful desires;

Much as the missionary has to "figure out" the culture of the people group he is working with and tailor the gospel presentation accordingly, we have to understand the people group that America is becoming.

You are not a Missionary, you speak and live in the same culture, they do not. No comparison at all.
There is no "tailoring the Gospel" to a certain culture. Especially for you, not being a Missionary with a language barrier coming into play
Your plan of tricks, sneaky schemes, or special" technique" to tailor our Lords Gospel as if it can't stand alone is a lie. GOD has it down pat, you don't need to modify his Gospel or present it in any specific way except what he's commanded, in Love.His holy spirit is able to transform anyone
For through the grace given to me I say to everyone among you not to think more highly of himself than he ought to think;

The best comparative example I can think of is the Amish. They have diligently clung to the old ways and are now a cultural curiosity. Not dead but certainly not impacting the world around them. IFB is becoming, by choice and design, an ingrown sect.

This wicked religous sect and their impact on the world, pay no mind to it. Keep your mind set on the things of above, not the temporal which perishes.
Any other theology but our own local church doesn't need to be of concern to us. Neither does the IFB, SBC, or any secular conventions or organizations trying to do the churches work assigned to the local church, including MORMONS, JW, CATHOLICS or whomever. Everytime this becomes a distraction, open your bible and study.
This dung is the highway to hell. Not the narrow pathway to life. Remember the first tribulation? Only Noah and his family survived because they were the ONLY righteous one's on earth. Let the world be, it has nothing to offer you

A rare moment of lucidity for Biker.....
[/quote]

Lucidity does not equal comprehension!  ;D

 

[sword]

[quote author=subllibrm]

If I could sum up what Billy and all the others are saying it is "adapt or die". We are to  minister in the context of the world we live in, not the one we used to live in.

Absolutely true. If you truly adapt to the world we live in, you will die. We are Aliens and Strangers here. This is not our world, our citizenship is in Heaven.

Phil 3:20 For our [a]citizenship is in heaven, from which also we eagerly wait for a Savior, the Lord Jesus Christ;

1 Peter 2:11 Beloved, I urge you as aliens and strangers to abstain from fleshly lusts which wage war against the soul.

Ephesians 2:19 So then you are no longer strangers and aliens, but you are fellow citizens with the saints, and are of God's household[/u], 20having been built on the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Christ Jesus Himself being the corner stone

Our culture is changing at a breakneck pace and the church needs to have some plan (and willingness) to adjust to those changes.

The plan is the Gospel. Preach it so they may be saved. Let the holy spirit do it's job. Then they too, will join Gods household

  Ozzie and Harriet are dead. We can't go back.

The Boob Tube has nothing to do with scripture or portraying the Christian way of life

We can't stand still. We must be aware of the world views of those we would seek to reach.

Romans 12:2 Do not be conformed to this world,[a] but be transformed by the renewal of your mind, that by testing you may discern what is the will of God, what is good and acceptable and perfect

It's not about you
It's not about you

You won't understand their culture because you are a FOREIGNER HERE, if... you are truly saved.  Trying to prevent the renewal of your mind and replace it with trying to understand the culture of darkness is frankly, scary. That is a deceitful desire.

Ephesians 4:22
You were taught, with regard to your former way of life, to put off your old self, which is being corrupted by its deceitful desires;

Much as the missionary has to "figure out" the culture of the people group he is working with and tailor the gospel presentation accordingly, we have to understand the people group that America is becoming.

You are not a Missionary, you speak and live in the same culture, they do not. No comparison at all.
There is no "tailoring the Gospel" to a certain culture. Especially for you, not being a Missionary with a language barrier coming into play
Your plan of tricks, sneaky schemes, or special" technique" to tailor our Lords Gospel as if it can't stand alone is a lie. GOD has it down pat, you don't need to modify his Gospel or present it in any specific way except what he's commanded, in Love.His holy spirit is able to transform anyone
For through the grace given to me I say to everyone among you not to think more highly of himself than he ought to think;

The best comparative example I can think of is the Amish. They have diligently clung to the old ways and are now a cultural curiosity. Not dead but certainly not impacting the world around them. IFB is becoming, by choice and design, an ingrown sect.

This wicked religous sect and their impact on the world, pay no mind to it. Keep your mind set on the things of above, not the temporal which perishes.
Any other theology but our own local church doesn't need to be of concern to us. Neither does the IFB, SBC, or any secular conventions or organizations trying to do the churches work assigned to the local church, including MORMONS, JW, CATHOLICS or whomever. Everytime this becomes a distraction, open your bible and study.
This dung is the highway to hell. Not the narrow pathway to life. Remember the first tribulation? Only Noah and his family survived because they were the ONLY righteous one's on earth. Let the world be, it has nothing to offer you

A rare moment of lucidity for Biker.....

Lucidity does not equal comprehension!  ;D
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Why must baptist always argue about methods. I have read through the above post several times and I like all the methods listed. Instead of running down some of the "other" methods & ministries listed here we should try any that may be effective in our area. If buses dont work well in your area great, try something that does. If your church does like traditional S.S. then home bible studies or small groups may be just the thing. I like them all & see a need for each.

I don't see the JW's & the Morman's fighting among themselves. While we fight each other, they are converting millions to their false beliefs.
Many more are converted to islam every day while we argue who is more right.