Billy Makes His Case

[subllibrm]

[quote author=subllibrm]

If I could sum up what Billy and all the others are saying it is "adapt or die". We are to  minister in the context of the world we live in, not the one we used to live in.

Absolutely true. If you truly adapt to the world we live in, you will die. We are Aliens and Strangers here. This is not our world, our citizenship is in Heaven.

Phil 3:20 For our [a]citizenship is in heaven, from which also we eagerly wait for a Savior, the Lord Jesus Christ;

1 Peter 2:11 Beloved, I urge you as aliens and strangers to abstain from fleshly lusts which wage war against the soul.

Ephesians 2:19 So then you are no longer strangers and aliens, but you are fellow citizens with the saints, and are of God's household[/u], 20having been built on the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Christ Jesus Himself being the corner stone

Our culture is changing at a breakneck pace and the church needs to have some plan (and willingness) to adjust to those changes.

The plan is the Gospel. Preach it so they may be saved. Let the holy spirit do it's job. Then they too, will join Gods household

  Ozzie and Harriet are dead. We can't go back.

The Boob Tube has nothing to do with scripture or portraying the Christian way of life

We can't stand still. We must be aware of the world views of those we would seek to reach.

Romans 12:2 Do not be conformed to this world,[a] but be transformed by the renewal of your mind, that by testing you may discern what is the will of God, what is good and acceptable and perfect

It's not about you
It's not about you

You won't understand their culture because you are a FOREIGNER HERE, if... you are truly saved.  Trying to prevent the renewal of your mind and replace it with trying to understand the culture of darkness is frankly, scary. That is a deceitful desire.

Ephesians 4:22
You were taught, with regard to your former way of life, to put off your old self, which is being corrupted by its deceitful desires;

Much as the missionary has to "figure out" the culture of the people group he is working with and tailor the gospel presentation accordingly, we have to understand the people group that America is becoming.

You are not a Missionary, you speak and live in the same culture, they do not. No comparison at all.
There is no "tailoring the Gospel" to a certain culture. Especially for you, not being a Missionary with a language barrier coming into play
Your plan of tricks, sneaky schemes, or special" technique" to tailor our Lords Gospel as if it can't stand alone is a lie. GOD has it down pat, you don't need to modify his Gospel or present it in any specific way except what he's commanded, in Love.His holy spirit is able to transform anyone
For through the grace given to me I say to everyone among you not to think more highly of himself than he ought to think;

The best comparative example I can think of is the Amish. They have diligently clung to the old ways and are now a cultural curiosity. Not dead but certainly not impacting the world around them. IFB is becoming, by choice and design, an ingrown sect.

This wicked religous sect and their impact on the world, pay no mind to it. Keep your mind set on the things of above, not the temporal which perishes.
Any other theology but our own local church doesn't need to be of concern to us. Neither does the IFB, SBC, or any secular conventions or organizations trying to do the churches work assigned to the local church, including MORMONS, JW, CATHOLICS or whomever. Everytime this becomes a distraction, open your bible and study.
This dung is the highway to hell. Not the narrow pathway to life. Remember the first tribulation? Only Noah and his family survived because they were the ONLY righteous one's on earth. Let the world be, it has nothing to offer you

A rare moment of lucidity for Biker.....

Lucidity does not equal comprehension!  ;D

Why must baptist always argue about methods. I have read through the above post several times and I like all the methods listed. Instead of running down some of the "other" methods & ministries listed here we should try any that may be effective in our area. If buses dont work well in your area great, try something that does. If your church does like traditional S.S. then home bible studies or small groups may be just the thing. I like them all & see a need for each.

I don'tsee the JW's & the Morman's fighting among themselves. As we fight each other they are converting millions to their false beliefs.
Many more are converted to islam every day while we argue who is more right.
[/quote]

Cause baptists only know how to put God into one box and it is the one that they currently use. All others are then suspect if not apostate. 

 

[Just John]

    We can't stand still. We must be aware of the world views of those we would seek to reach.


Romans 12:2 Do not be conformed to this world,[a] but be transformed by the renewal of your mind, that by testing you may discern what is the will of God, what is good and acceptable and perfect

It's not about you
It's not about you

You won't understand their culture because you are a FOREIGNER HERE, if... you are truly saved.  Trying to prevent the renewal of your mind and replace it with trying to understand the culture of darkness is frankly, scary. That is a deceitful desire.

Ephesians 4:22
You were taught, with regard to your former way of life, to put off your old self, which is being corrupted by its deceitful desires;



    Much as the missionary has to "figure out" the culture of the people group he is working with and tailor the gospel presentation Accordingly, we have to understand the people group that America is becoming.

You are not a Missionary, you speak and live in the same culture, they do not. No comparison at all.
There is no "tailoring the Gospel" to a certain culture. Especially for you, not being a Missionary with a language barrier coming into play

Your plan of tricks, sneaky schemes, or special" technique" to tailor our Lords Gospel as if it can't stand alone is a lie. GOD has it down pat, you don't need to modify his Gospel or present it in any specific way except what he's commanded, in Love.His holy spirit is able to transform anyone

For through the grace given to me I say to everyone among you not to think more highly of himself than he ought to think;

As I look at this snippet above from the longer discussion with Frag and Sub (can you ever really "discuss" with Frag?  ;D ) I have a couple of thoughts.

Being "aware of worldviews" is much different than being "conformed" by worldviews. Do vice cops automatically becomes pimps and hustlers because they know how their suspects methods?  Does a conservative become a liberal because he understands the liberals beliefs? (Usually the opposite). Does a pastor become a bigger sinner because he seeks to understands the non-believer?

Lastly, I have heard so many times Jesus referred to as our "earthly example"....except apparently when he dined with sinners....and a few other awkward instances. 

 

[Biker]

Did hell freeze over? Tarheel & Frag agreed with me 

 

[Biker]

I know Frag gave you props but since you and he both completely distorted what I wrote then I am not too surprised.

The adaptation refers to the method of ministry based upon the context of the culture we seek to minister to/in. Now if you truly believe that the USA is a homogeneous culture that has not changed since Ike occupied the Oval Office then I can see where you and Frag would miss my point entirely.

Methods can, do and should change. The message should never change and I have in no way suggested that it should.

I wasn't against you or billy, or anyone. Much of your posts I agree with normally agree with, btw.

We could be in a time machine and arrive on earth at any time... in the past or future... and if you speak their language, then we share the gospel.

It doesn't matter who is President, IKE OR Clinton. They will be saved if GOD wills it, and you will relate to them as a brother or sister. You will share ONE CULTURE
and that is the Culture we are to be eternally focused on (aka eternally minded).It's called HEAVEN. It's our home, where our citizenship card is. Where our heart is.

I don't share the gospel enough so this is a good reminder for me.

 

[Biker]

    We can't stand still. We must be aware of the world views of those we would seek to reach.


Romans 12:2 Do not be conformed to this world,[a] but be transformed by the renewal of your mind, that by testing you may discern what is the will of God, what is good and acceptable and perfect

It's not about you
It's not about you

You won't understand their culture because you are a FOREIGNER HERE, if... you are truly saved.  Trying to prevent the renewal of your mind and replace it with trying to understand the culture of darkness is frankly, scary. That is a deceitful desire.

Ephesians 4:22
You were taught, with regard to your former way of life, to put off your old self, which is being corrupted by its deceitful desires;



    Much as the missionary has to "figure out" the culture of the people group he is working with and tailor the gospel presentation Accordingly, we have to understand the people group that America is becoming.

You are not a Missionary, you speak and live in the same culture, they do not. No comparison at all.
There is no "tailoring the Gospel" to a certain culture. Especially for you, not being a Missionary with a language barrier coming into play

Your plan of tricks, sneaky schemes, or special" technique" to tailor our Lords Gospel as if it can't stand alone is a lie. GOD has it down pat, you don't need to modify his Gospel or present it in any specific way except what he's commanded, in Love.His holy spirit is able to transform anyone

For through the grace given to me I say to everyone among you not to think more highly of himself than he ought to think;

As I look at this snippet above from the longer discussion with Frag and Sub (can you ever really "discuss" with Frag?  ;D ) I have a couple of thoughts.

Being "aware of worldviews" is much different than being "conformed" by worldviews. Do vice cops automatically becomes pimps and hustlers because they know how their suspects methods?  Does a conservative become a liberal because he understands the liberals beliefs? (Usually the opposite). Does a pastor become a bigger sinner because he seeks to understands the non-believer?

Lastly, I have heard so many times Jesus referred to as our "earthly example"....except apparently when he dined with sinners....and a few other awkward instances.

Except Jesus is GOD, he's sinless. We are not. His Commands are required of us are not required of himself, or himself coming here in Man form dying for us. 
1 Cor 15:33 Do not be deceived: "Bad company corrupts good morals."

2 Corinthians 6:14 Be ye not unequally yoked together with unbelievers: for what fellowship hath righteousness with unrighteousness?
and what communion hath light with darkness?

Bad company doesn't corrupt our Lord so this is not something he needs to be concerned over. We aren't commanded to dine with the unsaved so those who keep celebrating this instead of placing emphasis on where it belongs, to share the gospel I always wonder about.

With that... most days out of  the week, those I've interacted with are unsaved. Easy for me to understand them since I was one of them. Most of my close friends aren't saved either..but scripture says what it says. And it doesn't command I do anything beyond fulfilling their basic needs and spreading the gospel in a loving manner to them (which I don't do enough). The goal and command is for them to understand ME, become a part of my ETERNAL Culture. Not vice versa.

 

[Just John]

    We can't stand still. We must be aware of the world views of those we would seek to reach.


Romans 12:2 Do not be conformed to this world,[a] but be transformed by the renewal of your mind, that by testing you may discern what is the will of God, what is good and acceptable and perfect

It's not about you
It's not about you

You won't understand their culture because you are a FOREIGNER HERE, if... you are truly saved.  Trying to prevent the renewal of your mind and replace it with trying to understand the culture of darkness is frankly, scary. That is a deceitful desire.

Ephesians 4:22
You were taught, with regard to your former way of life, to put off your old self, which is being corrupted by its deceitful desires;



    Much as the missionary has to "figure out" the culture of the people group he is working with and tailor the gospel presentation Accordingly, we have to understand the people group that America is becoming.

You are not a Missionary, you speak and live in the same culture, they do not. No comparison at all.
There is no "tailoring the Gospel" to a certain culture. Especially for you, not being a Missionary with a language barrier coming into play

Your plan of tricks, sneaky schemes, or special" technique" to tailor our Lords Gospel as if it can't stand alone is a lie. GOD has it down pat, you don't need to modify his Gospel or present it in any specific way except what he's commanded, in Love.His holy spirit is able to transform anyone

For through the grace given to me I say to everyone among you not to think more highly of himself than he ought to think;

As I look at this snippet above from the longer discussion with Frag and Sub (can you ever really "discuss" with Frag?  ;D ) I have a couple of thoughts.

Being "aware of worldviews" is much different than being "conformed" by worldviews. Do vice cops automatically becomes pimps and hustlers because they know how their suspects methods?  Does a conservative become a liberal because he understands the liberals beliefs? (Usually the opposite). Does a pastor become a bigger sinner because he seeks to understands the non-believer?

Lastly, I have heard so many times Jesus referred to as our "earthly example"....except apparently when he dined with sinners....and a few other awkward instances.

Except Jesus is GOD, he's sinless. We are not. His Commands are required of us are not required of himself, or himself coming here in Man form dying for us. 
1 Cor 15:33 Do not be deceived: "Bad company corrupts good morals."

2 Corinthians 6:14 Be ye not unequally yoked together with unbelievers: for what fellowship hath righteousness with unrighteousness?
and what communion hath light with darkness?

Bad company doesn't corrupt our Lord so this is not something he needs to be concerned over. We aren't commanded to dine with the unsaved so those who keep celebrating this instead of placing emphasis on where it belongs, to share the gospel I always wonder about.

With that... most days out of  the week, those I've interacted with are unsaved. Easy for me to understand them since I was one of them. Most of my close friends aren't saved either..but scripture says what it says. And it doesn't command I do anything beyond fulfilling their basic needs and spreading the gospel in a loving manner to them (which I don't do enough). The goal and command is for them to understand ME, become a part of my ETERNAL Culture. Not vice versa.

You would think from what you wrote Jesus was never really tempted.

 

[Biker]

You would think from what you wrote that Jesus was never really tempted

That was not my intention. Maybe I could've worded it better.

There is a big difference between being tempted and sinning. In real life, I can often see why people do what they do and can easily put them into a category of not sinning.Alcohol- they may not even realize their are using it medicinally, but often I will.

Most Christian Men can enjoy looking at a beautiful woman and theirheart rate may even go up slightly. But unless it turns into full lust, like a part of your body is doing what it does to get ready for the fun of reproducing, then it is not sin. It's just the natural, enjoyable endorphins God created inside us for his own purposes.

 

[The Rogue Tomato]

Did hell freeze over? Tarheel & Frag agreed with me 

 

[Biker]

Did hell freeze over? Tarheel & Frag agreed with me 

just as I suspected ^^