Calvinism and God's love for the cosmos.

Ransom said:
Anon1379 said:
Sadness.
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Why would God be sad that people love him and are zealous for him?
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Because they aren't his children and are lost.

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The Jews as a whole did not, nor do they, hate Jehovah God.  God placed a veil over their eyes regarding the Christ, the Messiah, promised through the prophets.  But that veil WILL be lifted when the fulness of the Gentiles comes in The Day of the Lord and throughout the Millennial Kingdom.

RansomBathwater is such a fatalist, extremist, and all or nothing in his whacky doctrine of "total depravity"... Just let him continue forward with his satanic, antichrist view of man before God forces them to be born again against their non-existent will.


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Ransom said:
Why would God be sad that people love him and are zealous for him?
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You mean the pre-programmed robots?
 
HammondCheese said:
The Jews as a whole did not, nor do they, hate Jehovah God.  God placed a veil over their eyes regarding the Christ, the Messiah, promised through the prophets.  But that veil WILL be lifted when the fulness of the Gentiles comes in The Day of the Lord and throughout the Millennial Kingdom.

RansomBathwater is such a fatalist, extremist, and all or nothing in his whacky doctrine of "total depravity"... Just let him continue forward with his satanic, antichrist view of man before God forces them to be born again against their non-existent will.


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Nah, I understand perfectly where Ransom is coming from, I just think he is wrong. There is a reason why many Christians today are Calvinist, and it's not because they are dumb. I just think they take everything to the extreme.

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A reminder for the hard of understanding:

With respect to one's standing before God, there are two types of people in the world: those who are in the Spirit, and those who are in the flesh.

For those who live according to the flesh set their minds on the things of the flesh, but those who live according to the Spirit set their minds on the things of the Spirit. For to set the mind on the flesh is death, but to set the mind on the Spirit is life and peace. For the mind that is set on the flesh is hostile to God, for it does not submit to God's law; indeed, it cannot. Those who are in the flesh cannot please God. (Romans 8:5-8)
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Those in the flesh  Those in the Spirit
Live by the flesh  Live by the Spirit
Are set on the things of the flesh  Are set on the things of the Spirit
Will die  Will live
Bear fruit for death  Live in the way of the Spirit
Serve the law of sin  Serve the law of God
Are hostile to God  Are at peace with God
Cannot submit to God's law  Submit to God's law
Cannot please God  Please God
Do not possess the Holy Spirit  Possess the Holy Spirit
Have the spirit of slavery to sin  Have the spirit of adoption as sons

There is no third way. Those in the flesh are hostile to God. They cannot both love God and be hostile to him. They cannot both love God and serve sin: "No servant can serve two masters" (Luke 16:13). They cannot claim to love God while hating God's children: "If anyone says, 'I love God,' and hates his brother, he is a liar" (1 John 4:20). Paul thought he loved God, but his actions proved otherwise, because he hated and persecuted the people of God. He didn't love God; he loved Judaism.
 
Anon1379 said:
John 3:17. He has not believed in the Son of God.
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And those who do not believe? They are condemned and perish, because their minds are set on the flesh, they are hostile to God, and the consequence is death.
 
Ransom said:
A reminder for the hard of understanding:

With respect to one's standing before God, there are two types of people in the world: those who are in the Spirit, and those who are in the flesh.

For those who live according to the flesh set their minds on the things of the flesh, but those who live according to the Spirit set their minds on the things of the Spirit. For to set the mind on the flesh is death, but to set the mind on the Spirit is life and peace. For the mind that is set on the flesh is hostile to God, for it does not submit to God's law; indeed, it cannot. Those who are in the flesh cannot please God. (Romans 8:5-8)
Click to expand...

Those in the flesh  Those in the Spirit
Live by the flesh  Live by the Spirit
Are set on the things of the flesh  Are set on the things of the Spirit
Will die  Will live
Bear fruit for death  Live in the way of the Spirit
Serve the law of sin  Serve the law of God
Are hostile to God  Are at peace with God
Cannot submit to God's law  Submit to God's law
Cannot please God  Please God
Do not possess the Holy Spirit  Possess the Holy Spirit
Have the spirit of slavery to sin  Have the spirit of adoption as sons

There is no third way. Those in the flesh are hostile to God. They cannot both love God and be hostile to him. They cannot both love God and serve sin: "No servant can serve two masters" (Luke 16:13). They cannot claim to love God while hating God's children: "If anyone says, 'I love God,' and hates his brother, he is a liar" (1 John 4:20). Paul thought he loved God, but his actions proved otherwise, because he hated and persecuted the people of God. He didn't love God; he loved Judaism.
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So have you ever served sin while saved? I certainly have. Does that mean you lose salvation when you put yourself under sin? Nope. Can a man do things for God and not be saved? Yes. Can Saul be zealous for God while persecuting His people? Yes. Paul did not say he was zealous for the law. Paul did not say he was zealous for Jews. He said he was zealous for God. Now did God approve? Of course not. But that does not mean Paul was doing it for Judaism. In His understanding he was helping God. It was not until he was persuaded otherwise that he acted differently.  He did not switch Gods when he got saved. He believed in the same God before and after salvation. You cannot possibly tell me that Cornelius was praying to a different God and hated him. But guess what Cornelius was lost, because he didn't believe in Christ as Savior. You can believe in God, but it's completely different to accept Him as Saviour.

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Anon1379 said:
So have you ever served sin while saved?
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While I might sometimes sin, I am not a servant of sin, as I have been bought and made a servant of God. Just as an unregenerate person will sometimes perform morally good acts, but he is not a servant of God.

If you present yourselves to anyone as obedient slaves, you are slaves of the one whom you obey, either of sin, which leads to death, or of obedience, which leads to righteousness? But thanks be to God, that you who were once slaves of sin have become obedient from the heart to the standard of teaching to which you were committed, and, having been set free from sin, have become slaves of righteousness. (Rom. 6:16-18)
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You are either a slave to sin, or a slave to God. Again, there is no third way.
 
"Just as an unregenerate person will sometimes perform morally good acts, but he is not a servant of God."

Exactly my point.

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Anon1379 said:
"Just as an unregenerate person will sometimes perform morally good acts, but he is not a servant of God."

Exactly my point.
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So you agree that morally good acts are not a sign that one is serving God, and which means that person does not love God, but is his enemy?
 
Ransom said:
Anon1379 said:
"Just as an unregenerate person will sometimes perform morally good acts, but he is not a servant of God."

Exactly my point.
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So you agree that morally good acts are not a sign that one is serving God, and which means that person does not love God, but is his enemy?
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Does not mean one does not love God. Does this person love his sin more they than God? Sure. Is he serving God in the way God wants him to? No.  Is he still God's enemy? Yes, anyone who is not saved is at emnitty with God and the wrath of God abides on him. The rich young ruler did not hate God when he came to Christ. He just simply loved his sin and life more.

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Anon1379 said:
Does not mean one does not love God. Does this person love his sin more they than God? Sure. Is he serving God in the way God wants him to? No.  Is he still God's enemy? Yes, anyone who is not saved is at emnitty with God and the wrath of God abides on him.
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So basically, you think that the unregenerate are following Jesus' command to love their enemy.

The Bible says that the unregenerate man is hostile to God. You think he can love God at the same time as he is hostile to him.

I don't think you realize what a confused, contradictory stance your theology has led you into.
 
Ransom said:
Anon1379 said:
Does not mean one does not love God. Does this person love his sin more they than God? Sure. Is he serving God in the way God wants him to? No.  Is he still God's enemy? Yes, anyone who is not saved is at emnitty with God and the wrath of God abides on him.
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So basically, you think that the unregenerate are following Jesus' command to love their enemy.

The Bible says that the unregenerate man is hostile to God. You think he can love God at the same time as he is hostile to him.

I don't think you realize what a confused, contradictory stance your theology has led you into.
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Can u show me a verse that says the lost unconditionally hate God. I have raised Cornelius, Paul, and the rich young ruler all who did not hate God. You have not actually answered any of them. Did Cornelius and the rich young ruler hate God? Yes or no?


 
Anon1379 said:
Can u show me a verse that says the lost unconditionally hate God.
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Good grief. How many times do I have to quote Romans 8 back to you?

"For the mind that is set on the flesh is hostile to God, for it does not submit to God's law; indeed, it cannot" (Rom. 8:7).

Do you see any conditions or qualifications to that satement in that verse, or in the remainder of that passage? No? Unconditional. QED.

I have raised Cornelius, Paul, and the rich young ruler all who did not hate God.
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Narrative passages don't trump explicitly didactic ones. They need to be understood in light of what is explicitly taught.

You have not actually answered any of them.
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Cornelius

Paul

It's true I haven't discussed the rich young ruler, but since you haven't adequately rebutted what I have said about Cornelius and Paul, I fail to see what he might add to the discussion that they don't.
 
Ransom said:
Anon1379 said:
Can u show me a verse that says the lost unconditionally hate God.
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Good grief. How many times do I have to quote Romans 8 back to you?

"For the mind that is set on the flesh is hostile to God, for it does not submit to God's law; indeed, it cannot" (Rom. 8:7).

Do you see any conditions or qualifications to that satement in that verse, or in the remainder of that passage? No? Unconditional. QED.

I have raised Cornelius, Paul, and the rich young ruler all who did not hate God.
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Narrative passages don't trump explicitly didactic ones. They need to be understood in light of what is explicitly taught.

You have not actually answered any of them.
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Cornelius

Paul

It's true I haven't discussed the rich young ruler, but since you haven't adequately rebutted what I have said about Cornelius and Paul, I fail to see what he might add to the discussion that they don't.
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There is nothing in Romans 8 that says the lost unconditionally hate God.  It says that the carnal, lost mind is at enmity against God in verse 8... Or in opposition to God and DEAD (verse 6).  Just as love is an active verb, so is hate. 

Sure, there are many lost people that actively hate God... But we are all born spiritually DEAD.  Man is incapable of loving God prior to salvation and receiving life in Christ... And the natural man resists spiritual things until that day.  It is a war we are all born into.

But according to God, in Romans 1:28-30, it is after a progression throughout the Chapter when God gives them up to a reprobate mind that they become haters of God. 

Stop inserting your interpretation of enmity (or as your "bible" says, hostility) as meaning hatred.  They are not the same.  One can absolutely be in opposition to another without being overcome with hatred.  As a Veteran and former football player, I know.

You have such an obsession with proving God HATES the "non-elect" and the "non-elect" HATE God... Move on with your pathetic life and stick with Minecraft.
 
HammondCheese said:
You have such an obsession with proving God HATES the "non-elect" and the "non-elect" HATE God... Move on with your pathetic life and stick with Minecraft.
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That'll leave a mark!
 
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