Calvinism dishonors Christ's Sacrifice

[christundivided]

Have any of you notice that Calvinism actually honors God's choice in them..... and not God's choice in His Son.

They readily teach that they were first chosen................... before ANY means was chosen for their redemption. They were all individually God's "pick".

Do you believe this places Christ "first"?

 

[ItinerantPreacher]

No, I believe it shows a "holier than thou", "better than you", "God picked me not you" sort of "spiritual pride".

 

[The Rogue Tomato]

No, I believe it shows a "holier than thou", "better than you", "God picked me not you" sort of "spiritual pride".

As opposed to, "I was smarter, wiser, more spiritual, etc., than you, which is why I had the good sense to make the right decision of my own free will, and you made the stupid choice."

 

[christundivided]

No, I believe it shows a "holier than thou", "better than you", "God picked me not you" sort of "spiritual pride".

As opposed to, "I was smarter, wiser, more spiritual, etc., than you, which is why I had the good sense to make the right decision of my own free will, and you made the stupid choice."

No one can choose anything without God's initial choice of sending His Son to Calvary. There is nothing to Glory in a freewill choice in Christ Jesus. You all say there is.... and there isn't.

Now answer the question please.....

Doesn't Calvinism place individual election before God's choice in His Son?

 

[rsc2a]

[quote author=christundivided]Now answer the question please.....

Doesn't Calvinism place individual election before God's choice in His Son?[/quote]

No.

(That was easy.)

 

[The Rogue Tomato]

No, I believe it shows a "holier than thou", "better than you", "God picked me not you" sort of "spiritual pride".

As opposed to, "I was smarter, wiser, more spiritual, etc., than you, which is why I had the good sense to make the right decision of my own free will, and you made the stupid choice."

No one can choose anything without God's initial choice of sending His Son to Calvary. There is nothing to Glory in a freewill choice in Christ Jesus. You all say there is.... and there isn't.

How can there not be? 

If the difference between you and the unsaved boils down to the choices you made, then your choice is the hinge and turning point of your salvation (which is why free will is based in pride). 

Free willers might not say they take credit for their decision, but that's only a matter of remaining silent on the issue (or intellectual dishonesty).  The credit for the decision belongs entirely to them.  Christ may have provided the way, but their will was, again, the hinge and turning point of their own salvation.  Their will is what differentiated themselves from the unsaved. 

 

[The Rogue Tomato]

[quote author=christundivided]Now answer the question please.....

Doesn't Calvinism place individual election before God's choice in His Son?

No.

(That was easy.)
[/quote]

^This.

 

[christundivided]

[quote author=christundivided]Now answer the question please.....

Doesn't Calvinism place individual election before God's choice in His Son?

No.

(That was easy.)
[/quote]

Sure it does. The Calvinist exegesis of Ephesian 1:3-4 is unmistakeable. Obviously... neither of you know much about Calvinism.

 

[christundivided]

No, I believe it shows a "holier than thou", "better than you", "God picked me not you" sort of "spiritual pride".

As opposed to, "I was smarter, wiser, more spiritual, etc., than you, which is why I had the good sense to make the right decision of my own free will, and you made the stupid choice."

No one can choose anything without God's initial choice of sending His Son to Calvary. There is nothing to Glory in a freewill choice in Christ Jesus. You all say there is.... and there isn't.

How can there not be? 

If the difference between you and the unsaved boils down to the choices you made, then your choice is the hinge and turning point of your salvation (which is why free will is based in pride). 

Free willers might not say they take credit for their decision, but that's only a matter of remaining silent on the issue (or intellectual dishonesty).  The credit for the decision belongs entirely to them.  Christ may have provided the way, but their will was, again, the hinge and turning point of their own salvation.  Their will is what differentiated themselves from the unsaved.

A choice dependent on an equally available choice... = PRIDE?

Really? Are you really that narrow minded.

Want Scriptural example...

1Co 9:16  For though I preach the gospel, I have nothing to glory of: for necessity is laid upon me; yea, woe is unto me, if I preach not the gospel!

By your standard Paul would actually have been wrong on 1 Cor 9:16

 

[rsc2a]

[quote author=christundivided]Now answer the question please.....

Doesn't Calvinism place individual election before God's choice in His Son?

No.

(That was easy.)

Sure it does. The Calvinist exegesis of Ephesian 1:3-4 is unmistakeable. Obviously... neither of you know much about Calvinism.
[/quote]

And clearly,  you know everything about everything.  :

 

[Mathew Ward]

Have any of you notice that Calvinism actually honors God's choice in them..... and not God's choice in His Son.

They readily teach that they were first chosen................... before ANY means was chosen for their redemption. They were all individually God's "pick".

Do you believe this places Christ "first"?

I think before they were chosen that Christ had to be first ordained first to be slain.

1 Peter 1:18-20  Forasmuch as ye know that ye were not redeemed with corruptible things, as silver and gold, from your vain conversation received by tradition from your fathers; But with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot: Who verily was foreordained before the foundation of the world, but was manifest in these last times for you,

 

[Recovering IFB]

CU, by the nature of these monergism vs synergism threads you've started, your starting to sound like a date that was stood up at the prom.

 

[Ransom]

CU, by the nature of these monergism vs synergism threads you've started, your starting to sound like a date that was stood up at the prom.

Was it Timmeh!? They seem to be ranting on about the same things lately.

 

[subllibrm]

Since Jesus IS God I am having trouble seeing how He could choose me ahead of Himself?  ???

 

[Ransom]

Since Jesus IS God I am having trouble seeing how He could choose me ahead of Himself?  ???

The Father loved his Son before the foundation of the world, too (John 17:5,24).

The OP is an incoherent rant that was seemingly written while the author was high, so I wouldn't worry too much about it.

 

[christundivided]

Since Jesus IS God I am having trouble seeing how He could choose me ahead of Himself?  ???

The Father loved his Son before the foundation of the world, too (John 17:5,24).

The OP is an incoherent rant that was seemingly written while the author was high, so I wouldn't worry too much about it.

How does John 17:5,24 have anything to do with what I said. Calvinism teaches that the elect were individually chosen before the foundation of the world. Thus your statement creates no distinction whatsoever.

 

[christundivided]

Have any of you notice that Calvinism actually honors God's choice in them..... and not God's choice in His Son.

They readily teach that they were first chosen................... before ANY means was chosen for their redemption. They were all individually God's "pick".

Do you believe this places Christ "first"?

I think before they were chosen that Christ had to be first ordained first to be slain.

1 Peter 1:18-20  Forasmuch as ye know that ye were not redeemed with corruptible things, as silver and gold, from your vain conversation received by tradition from your fathers; But with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot: Who verily was foreordained before the foundation of the world, but was manifest in these last times for you,

I agree Matthew. This is NOT what's taught by Calvinism.

Either way, 1 Peter 1:18-20 only places the choosing of Christ before the foundation of the world. The Calvinist places God's choice in the elect before the foundation of the world. Their exegesis of Ephesians 1.... Places God's choice in individual election before God's choice in His Son to redeem the elect. Its undeniable.

 

[christundivided]

CU, by the nature of these monergism vs synergism threads you've started, your starting to sound like a date that was stood up at the prom.

I have no interest in either method. I have interest in the Truth.

You're starting to sound like a Calvinist that can't defend your own beliefs.

 

[christundivided]

Since Jesus IS God I am having trouble seeing how He could choose me ahead of Himself?  ???

You're being dishonest with the question.

Yes. Jesus Christ is God. Yet, in Eternity Past, there was a time when JESUS wasn't purposed to die on Calvary. Calvinism places the Glory of Christ sacrifice ....after or subject to.... God's election of individuals.

Ransom knows this. He's just playing with words.

 

[subllibrm]

Since Jesus IS God I am having trouble seeing how He could choose me ahead of Himself?  ???

You're being dishonest with the question.

Yes. Jesus Christ is God. Yet, in Eternity Past, there was a time when JESUS wasn't purposed to die on Calvary. Calvinism places the Glory of Christ sacrifice ....after or subject to.... God's election of individuals.

Ransom knows this. He's just playing with words.

I have no idea what you just said. Nor have I ever heard anyone say that "chosen before the foundation of the world" put that choice ahead of Jesus. Well, I did just hear it now from you but not prior to that.

Jesus was part of that choosing "before the foundation of the world" so he had to have predated it.

Why do I suddenly have hankering for a soft pretzel?