Christian School Shooting

[Dr. Huk-N-Duck]

In this specific case, you need to pick your battles. I don't have authority to command which battles you ought to pick especially when referring to someone's preference of address. I categorically REJECT the notion that capitulation to their delusion keeps a door open to sharing the Gospel. In fact, I would contend that such capitulation has the EXACT OPPOSITE effect.

When we fear someone's wrath for how we refer to them, we are conceding power to them. Often it's power they they have absolutely NO authority to hold over us, either legally or spiritually. I, for one, do not recognize any power these people have over me in any way and I will not capitulate to their bullying.

Let me use a different example to illustrate my point. I don’t agree with gay marriage either, but if I’m at a social event and a man introduces me to his “husband,” what would I gain by saying, “That’s not your husband, because a man can only marry a woman, therefore I won’t recognize this man as your husband”?

 

[abcaines]

Let me use a different example to illustrate my point. I don’t agree with gay marriage either, but if I’m at a social event and a man introduces me to his “husband,” what would I gain by saying, “That’s not your husband, because a man can only marry a woman, therefore I won’t recognize this man as your husband”?

Like I said, you pick your own battles. I'll not judge. What you decide is between you and God. I would probably endeavor to behave like you do. I'd nod in a polite greeting, even shake hands, but that's it. Only if forced to comment on the situation, would I speak. Same with TGs. I'm not looking for a conflict but if pressed, I'll stand my ground.

 

[AverageJoe]

Gotta pick your battles. I too would find it difficult to justify the scenario you described as a hill on which to die. Unfortunately, there will be stronger opportunities for sacrifice soon enough.

No wonder our country is going to hell in a handbasket. With attitudes like this, and with the opposition willing to die on any hill...I can understand why our country and Christianity is sinking, not just in people's opinion, but in real time.

 

[AverageJoe]

Like I said, you pick your own battles. I'll not judge. What you decide is between you and God. I would probably endeavor to behave like you do. I'd nod in a polite greeting, even shake hands, but that's it. Only if forced to comment on the situation, would I speak. Same with TGs. I'm not looking for a conflict but if pressed, I'll stand my ground.

This position I could support. I wouldn't go looking for a fight, but, if it were pressed upon me I wouldn't slink back in terror of the situation either. Jesus didn't slink back on sin, and neither should we.

 

[aleshanee]

some would say this war of pronouns was lost long ago when the english speaking world gave in to demands of the homosexual consortium and began referring to them as "gay" rather than what they had always been traditionally called.... ..it;s even accepted as the "g" of lgbt + acronym whereas if truth was really that important would be an "h" in that spot or even an "s" ....but not a "g" standing in place for the word "gay"......

100 years ago the word gay had a whole different meaning than it does now.... .......i don;t even know how that got started but i know it happened long before i was born.... ...what is going on now seems to be a battle to either re-claim integrity and common sense in speech and language - or keep it from slipping away further...... ...... but truth is it should have never been allowed to start slipping in the first place......

and it is the same with the rainbow..... the symbol of God;s covenant with noah.. ...the alphabet soup consortium stole it in broad daylight.... .. i have always contended that it belongs to christians not to a group dedicated to promoting perversion... .... but people actually laughed at me several years ago when i suggested christians should work to take that symbol back from them.... and in some fundamentalist churches christians have even been discouraged from having anything to do with it.....

now we have people calling themselves "christian pastors" while openly promoting a lifestyle scripture calls an abomination.... next they will probably be coming out with their own version of the bible and leaving half of it out... if they haven;t already.... evil always begs for tolerance and inclusion until it;s in control....and after that it tolerates nothing but full compliance to its orders.... and anyone who refuses finds themselves excluded.... or worse....

 

[Dr. Huk-N-Duck]

some would say this war of pronouns was lost long ago when the english speaking world gave in to demands of the homosexual consortium and began referring to them as "gay" rather than what they had always been traditonally called.... ..it;s even accepted as the "g" of lgbt + acronym whereas if truth was really that important would be an "h" in that spot or even an "s" rather a "g" standing in place for the word "gay"......

100 years ago the word gay had a whole different meaning than it does now.... .......i don;t even know how that got started but i know it happened long before i was born.... ...what is going on now seems to be a battle to either re-claim integrity and common sense in speech and language - or keep it from slipping away further...... ...... but truth is it should have never been allowed to start slipping in the first place......

and it is the same with the rainbow..... the symbol of God;s covenant with noah.. ...the alphabet soup consortium stole it in broad daylight.... .. i have always contended that it belongs to christians not to a group dedicated to promoting perversion... .... but people actually laughed at me several years ago when i suggested christians should work to take that symbol back from them.... and in some fundamentalist churches christians have even been discouraged from having anything to do with it.....

now we have people calling themselves "christian pastors" while openly promoting a lifestyle scripture calls an abomination.... next they will probably be coming out with their own version of the bible and leaving half of it out... if they haven;t already.... evil always begs for tolerance and inclusion until it;s in control....and after that it tolerates nothing but full compliance to its orders.... and anyone who refuses finds themselves excluded.... or worse....

I actually had a Sunday school teacher who refused to use the word “gay” or “homosexual” and instead referred to them as f@-s.” He would also not allow any of us boys to refer to them as anything other than the f-word. We were probably around 13 years old, so early 90s.

 

[aleshanee]

I actually had a Sunday school teacher who refused to use the word “gay” or “homosexual” and instead referred to them as f@-s.” He would also not allow any of us boys to refer to them as anything other than the f-word. We were probably around 13 years old, so early 90s.

are you talking about the word "fags"?...... in england that use to mean cigarettes.... and in ancient england pieces of kindling wood was called faggots..... so there again it was not a true term being used to describe homosexuals but a stolen and corrupted one..... but who actually started it?.... and why?........ . years ago a previous generation was told it was wrong to use the word "queer" to describe them.... but that;s exactly what the "q" recently added to the alphabet mix stands for.... and it;s something those identifying by that acronymn added to it themselves..... ....back in the day that word simply meant "weird" or "strange"....

 

[Dr. Huk-N-Duck]

are you talking about the word "fags"?...... in england that use to mean cigarettes.... and in ancient england pieces of kindling wood was called faggots..... so there again it was not a true term being used to describe homosexuals but a stolen and corrupted one..... but who actually started it?.... and why?........ . years ago a previous generation was told it was wrong to use the word "queer" to describe them.... but that;s exactly what the "q" recently added to the alphabet mix stands for.... and it;s something those identifying by that acronymn added to it themselves..... ....back in the day that word simply meant "weird" or "strange"....

Yes, didn’t know if allowed to type it on here or not. But yes, in England it does mean cigarettes.

 

[Ransom]

Let me use a different example to illustrate my point. I don’t agree with gay marriage either, but if I’m at a social event and a man introduces me to his “husband,”

"Mmm hmm. That's nice." [moves on]

These days, Proverbs 26:4 applies in a whole bunch of situations we never dreamed of.

 

[Jo]

IMO, this has gotten way off-topic.

As with most mass shootings, the shooter had a mental illness that may not have been treated correctly.

One of the major problems in America is that people with severe mental illnesses, such as, schizophrenia, wander the streets talking to themselves, and we're all afraid to talk about it because "treatment" is not the code word. It is "stigma".

For example, who lobbies for the mentally ill and the homeless?

In 2019, NAMI (National Alliance on Mentally Illness) spent $55,788 lobbying. American Heart Association spent $200,000 in 2022.

For those who can read, try "American Psychosis, How the Federal Government Destroyed the Mental Illness Treatment System" by E. Fuller Torrey, M.D.

 

[aleshanee]

IMO, this has gotten way off-topic.

As with most mass shootings, the shooter had a mental illness that may not have been treated correctly.

One of the major problems in America is that people with severe mental illnesses, such as, schizophrenia, wander the streets talking to themselves, and we're all afraid to talk about it because "treatment" is not the code word. It is "stigma".

For example, who lobbies for the mentally ill and the homeless?

In 2019, NAMI (National Alliance on Mentally Illness) spent $55,788 lobbying. American Heart Association spent $200,000 in 2022.

For those who can read???, try "American Psychosis, How the Federal Government Destroyed the Mental Illness Treatment System" by E. Fuller Torrey, M.D.

wow..... i had no idea you were such a smart-elleck.... or that you knew so little about the other people on this forum.... ... i myself suffer from schizophrenia.. .... and i am also part of a christian ministry that works to help get homeless people both mentally ill and otherwise, off the street and into shelters. .....i have been speaking up here since 2004 for the mentally ill and homeless... ... i have also written posts here and on another forum about new research and new findings about schizophrenia... even argued on behalf of both the mentally ill and homeless against irrate and itinerate forum preachers that were both here and gone long before you showed up.. they wanted to claim it was all demon possession..... .(i also work in other street ministries not related to this topic but which none-the-less work with those who have been trapped in the downward spirals that being a part of that world causes).... ... you would not have had to read very much here to know all that... ... but apparently you don;t read... you simply react....

and from what i know of dr e fuller torrey.... he has not only not kept up with that new research i mentioned but also still advocates for forcible and mandatory commitment of people with schizophrenia to mental institutions... (people like me )... and he;s also a big proponent of keeping us drugged out of our minds on psychotropics.... . . . maybe you are a friend of the occasional forum member here who once posted that i should be committed to a mental institution too?..... that would not surprise me at all the way you came riding in here like a knight on a white horse... . (or was it a mule?) - as soon as gay and trans pronouns came into question.. ..if i am wrong about that then i apologize.... but i have a hard time believing his presence here recently.... this topic going off topic .... as you called it..... or that your appearance here now with this righteous indignation is all just coincidence..... but whatever.... ..

now.... did you know that days before this transgender mass shooter who was reported to have had an emotional disorder, (no mention of schizophrenia)....murdered 3 chidren and 3 adults in a christian school.. that another trans and gay activist had written a post on instagram and twitter saying it was time for trans and gay communities to "arm up" ?.... to buy firearms and learn how to use them?..... he said the world was dangerous..especially for them.. and it was time for gay and trans people to become dangerous too......... ..maybe you missed that?..... the main stream news media missed it too.... or chose to overlook it.. ..either way they certainly don;t seem to want to assign any blame to that person for instigating the actions of this emotionally ill trans/gay activist.. but if it was a right wing shooter and had the posts come from a right wing activist you can bet they would have...

and why has nobody seen the manifesto of this latest mass murderer?...... could it be the left does not want the rest of us to know there is a war being waged on christians by the left and that the gay-atheist/agnostic trans community is just one of their latest conscripts?....

and could it also be that none of us here really care what your opinion is of how this thread drifted - since you did not start this thread.. and have so far made only this one sarcastic contribution to it?...... ..yeah.... that;s probably it...... at least it;s what i;m going with.....

 

[Jo]

wow..... i had no idea you were such a smart-elleck.... or that you knew so little about the other people on this forum.... ... i myself suffer from schizophrenia.. .... and i am also part of a christian ministry that works to help get homeless people both mentally ill and otherwise, off the street and into shelters. .....i have been speaking up here since 2004 for the mentally ill and homeless... ... i have also written posts here and on another forum about new research and new findings about schizophrenia... even argued on behalf of both the mentally ill and homeless against irrate and itinerate forum preachers that were both here and gone long before you showed up.. they wanted to claim it was all demon possession..... .(i also work in other street ministries not related to this topic but which none-the-less work with those who have been trapped in the downward spirals that being a part of that world causes).... ... you would not have had to read very much here to know all that... ... but apparently you don;t read... you simply react....

and from what i know of dr e fuller torrey.... he has not only not kept up with that new research i mentioned but also still advocates for forcible and mandatory commitment of people with schizophrenia to mental institutions... (people like me )... and he;s also a big proponent of keeping us drugged out of our minds on psychotropics.... . . . maybe you are a friend of the occasional forum member here who once posted that i should be committed to a mental institution too?..... that would not surprise me at all the way you came riding in here like a knight on a white horse... . (or was it a mule?) - as soon as gay and trans pronouns came into question.. ..if i am wrong about that then i apologize.... but i have a hard time believing his presence here recently.... this topic going off topic .... as you called it..... or that your appearance here now with this righteous indignation is all just coincidence..... but whatever.... ..

now.... did you know that days before this transgender mass shooter who was reported to have had an emotional disorder, (no mention of schizophrenia)....murdered 3 chidren and 3 adults in a christian school.. that another trans and gay activist had written a post on instagram and twitter saying it was time for trans and gay communities to "arm up" ?.... to buy firearms and learn how to use them?..... he said the world was dangerous..especially for them.. and it was time for gay and trans people to become dangerous too......... ..maybe you missed that?..... the main stream news media missed it too.... or chose to overlook it.. ..either way they certainly don;t seem to want to assign any blame to that person for instigating the actions of this emotionally ill trans/gay activist.. but if it was a right wing shooter and had the posts come from a right wing activist you can bet they would have...

and why has nobody seen the manifesto of this latest mass murderer?...... could it be the left does not want the rest of us to know there is a war being waged on christians by the left and that the gay-atheist/agnostic trans community is just one of their latest conscripts?....

and could it also be that none of us here really care what your opinion is of how this thread drifted - since you did not start this thread.. and have so far made only this one sarcastic contribution to it?...... ..yeah.... that;s probably it...... at least it;s what i;m going with.....

My dear aleshanee,

I think you read emotions into my post that simply aren't there. I care very deeply for those who suffer with schizophrenia. My mother had the illness. She was loved, but the schizophrenia was not. I am so glad that you are doing well and that you post on the forum. On top of it all, you work with the homeless and help others.

Based on my personal experience, there are many people who have schizophrenia who refuse treatment. They tend to think the rest of the world is the problem, and it can become a downward spiral.
Below is a link to a talk by DJ Jaffe. It's short and to the point.

You wrote about Dr. Torrey, "he has not only not kept up with that new research i mentioned but also still advocates for forcible and mandatory commitment of people with schizophrenia to mental institutions"

I have followed Dr. Torrey through the years. His own sister had schizophrenia.


He is part of an organization called Treatment Advocacy Center. https://www.treatmentadvocacycenter.org/about-us
His work speaks for itself. Below are some quotes regarding the needs of some of the mentally ill and communities. It is a complex topic, and I won't continue the conversation after this. I admire you, aleshanee, I know you are a frequent poster, and you feel passionate about many things.

For me, every time there is a mass shooting, I think about the fact that many people absolutely refuse the treatment they need. Below are some quotes from the Treatment Advocacy website.

In 2016, nearly 400,000 inmates in US jails and prisons were estimated to have a mental health condition. Of those inmates, an estimated 90,000 were defendants who had been arrested and jailed but had not come to trial because they were too disordered to understand the charges on which they were detained. All but three states authorize evaluating the mental competency of such offenders within the jails or in the community, and some states authorize treatment to restore competency outside a hospital.

Below are the goals and objectives.

1. identify individuals within the service area who appear to be persistently non-adherent with needed treatment for their mental illness and meet criteria for AOT under state law; 2. ensure that whenever such individuals are identified, the mental health system itself takes the initiative to gather the required evidence and apply to the court for AOT, rather than rely on community members to do so (although community members should not be impeded from initiating an AOT petition or investigation where permitted by state law); 3. safeguard the due process rights of participants at all stages of AOT proceedings; 4. maintain clear lines of communication between the court and the treatment team, such that the court receives the clinical information it needs to exercise its authority appropriately and the treatment team is able to leverage the court’s powers as needed; 5. provide evidence-based treatment services focused on engagement and helping the participant maintain stability and safety in the community; 6. continually evaluate the appropriateness of the participant’s treatment plan throughout the AOT period, and make adjustments as warranted; 7. employ specific protocols to respond in the event that an AOT participant falters in maintaining treatment engagement; 8. evaluate each AOT participant at the end of the commitment period to determine whether it is appropriate to seek renewal of the commitment or allow the participant to transition to voluntary care; 9. ensure that upon transitioning out of the program, each participant remains connected to the treatment services they continue to need to maintain stability and safety.


I am getting older and don't have as much life ahead of me as you do, so I blog on this topic at https://wordpress.com/home/runningtowardhappy.wordpress.com. I don't have the answers, but I do have a voice.

 

[aleshanee]

My dear aleshanee,

I think you read emotions into my post that simply aren't there. I care very deeply for those who suffer with schizophrenia. My mother had the illness. She was loved, but the schizophrenia was not. I am so glad that you are doing well and that you post on the forum. On top of it all, you work with the homeless and help others.

Based on my personal experience, there are many people who have schizophrenia who refuse treatment. They tend to think the rest of the world is the problem, and it can become a downward spiral.
Below is a link to a talk by DJ Jaffe. It's short and to the point.

You wrote about Dr. Torrey, "he has not only not kept up with that new research i mentioned but also still advocates for forcible and mandatory commitment of people with schizophrenia to mental institutions"

I have followed Dr. Torrey through the years. His own sister had schizophrenia.


He is part of an organization called Treatment Advocacy Center. https://www.treatmentadvocacycenter.org/about-us
His work speaks for itself. Below are some quotes regarding the needs of some of the mentally ill and communities. It is a complex topic, and I won't continue the conversation after this. I admire you, aleshanee, I know you are a frequent poster, and you feel passionate about many things.

For me, every time there is a mass shooting, I think about the fact that many people absolutely refuse the treatment they need. Below are some quotes from the Treatment Advocacy website.

In 2016, nearly 400,000 inmates in US jails and prisons were estimated to have a mental health condition. Of those inmates, an estimated 90,000 were defendants who had been arrested and jailed but had not come to trial because they were too disordered to understand the charges on which they were detained. All but three states authorize evaluating the mental competency of such offenders within the jails or in the community, and some states authorize treatment to restore competency outside a hospital.

Below are the goals and objectives.

1. identify individuals within the service area who appear to be persistently non-adherent with needed treatment for their mental illness and meet criteria for AOT under state law; 2. ensure that whenever such individuals are identified, the mental health system itself takes the initiative to gather the required evidence and apply to the court for AOT, rather than rely on community members to do so (although community members should not be impeded from initiating an AOT petition or investigation where permitted by state law); 3. safeguard the due process rights of participants at all stages of AOT proceedings; 4. maintain clear lines of communication between the court and the treatment team, such that the court receives the clinical information it needs to exercise its authority appropriately and the treatment team is able to leverage the court’s powers as needed; 5. provide evidence-based treatment services focused on engagement and helping the participant maintain stability and safety in the community; 6. continually evaluate the appropriateness of the participant’s treatment plan throughout the AOT period, and make adjustments as warranted; 7. employ specific protocols to respond in the event that an AOT participant falters in maintaining treatment engagement; 8. evaluate each AOT participant at the end of the commitment period to determine whether it is appropriate to seek renewal of the commitment or allow the participant to transition to voluntary care; 9. ensure that upon transitioning out of the program, each participant remains connected to the treatment services they continue to need to maintain stability and safety.


I am getting older and don't have as much life ahead of me as you do, so I blog on this topic at https://wordpress.com/home/runningtowardhappy.wordpress.com. I don't have the answers, but I do have a voice.

i think i read your post exactly right.... and no... i was not reading an emotion that was not there... ...in my opinion your post dripped with sarcasm and condescension.... why else did you say "for those who can read' - before referring us to a book?..... be honest.... do you really believe there are people posting on this forum or in this thread, who cannot read?... ... you appeared to be miffed that this thread was not developing along a line you wanted to see it on....... and your initial entry into this thread appeared to be an effort to scold the participants and put it back on a track it had never really been on in the first place....

i understand your passion for seeing people with schizophrenia and other mental illnesses get the treatment you think they need.... and so... having more than just an interest and passion for others with mental illness myself... i read your last post... watched the video you posted.... and also looked at the source material you linked to when i was able to access it.... i am saddened to say i did not see anything in what you wrote.. or in what any of the writings or video you linked to.. that dispelled what i said about dr torrey in my first post to you...

in that post i said that i understood dr torrey to be the kind of psychiatrist who believed in forcing treatment on those he deemed as mentally ill...which includes harsh psychotropic drugs whether they wanted it or not.... and locking them up if they refused to comply..... that is exactly what i read and heard in everything so far that you presented....

and yet that attitude is the very reason so many people with mental illness refuse to even seek help.... much less accept it when offered.... they believe that is what will happen - they will lose their freedom and all rights to make decisions for themselves... . and when you are homeless.... penniless... and suffering from mental and physical illnesses both - the right to make your own decision is the only thing you have left you can call your own....

i don;t know how you approach the homeless and mentally ill when go out into the street to find and minister to them... (i don;t even know if you go out there at all).... but i go out there knowing they believe the freedom to decide for themselves is their only possession.... and that they will defend it jealously.....

they also understand something you might not realize they know... whether they speak out about it or not.... and which was sadly missing from everything you wrote and from everything the doctors wrote or said..... and that is the value of a loving and supportive family that will help them deal with their illnesses...it;s what every one of them wants.... family is what makes all the difference.... unfortunately for many people with mental illness a bad family is what caused their problem in the first place....that;s what happened to me.... the first 9 years of my life was spent with an alcohol and drug addicted mother who used me by giving me to her male strip club clients... starting when i was age 5... and my doctor believes that is why i developed schizophrenia... MRI results of my brain supports her diagnosis.... but it took a long time and a lot of therapy and treatment without a clear understanding before an MRI was able to see all that.....

but not all schizophrenia is the same... there are different patterns and different causes.... researchers are learning more and more about it every year.... . but from i could tell of dr torreys opinions he is still working off research that was done in the 1980s... if not before that.... .. back when straight jackets.... being strapped to dirty beds in dirty rubber rooms.... and being drugged into next week then shocked with defibrillation paddles applied to your head - was the treatment of choice for schizophrenics that most psychiatrists agreed with.... is that the kind of mental health treatment system you spoke of that the federal government did away with?......... if so..... then good riddance....

i tend to write really long posts .... too long in the opinions of most.... so ill end this here by saying i was saved when i was 8 not long before the sex abuse part of the nightmare ended... went through months of surgery that included a complete hysterectomy.....then was brought to hawaii by my older sister... but then she was murdered when i was almost 11 and i was supposed to be turned over to the same uncle who had brought her here at 14 to put her into the same exotic dance business our mother had been a part of.... in the course of events that followed over the next few weeks i saw an opportunity to make myself part of a good family and i jumped at it...... i believe God led me to them....they made all the difference for me.. ..but a church can also be a good fmaily to a mentally ill person... especially an adult.... if only the church will do it....

i could not help but notice that in your 9 point treatment plan the importance of having a supportive family or even a church for mentally ill patients was not mentioned...... to me your plan looked all about constant monitoring and control... that;s the very thing most mentally ill patients will not tolerate.... and even if they would how would any state find the resources to do that without volunteer or retrained natural families as a base for them?....... are you advocating doing all that with all the existing mentally ill patients out there through state facilities and institutions?........ i surely hope not.....

 

[Jo]

You and I come from vastly different life experiences. I doubt that we'll agree on this topic, one that I didn't anticipate defending.

I apologize for sounding condescending, it was not my intention. The last thing I want to do is offend someone. I agree I should have worded things differently.

I'm so glad you have a wonderful support system, and that you are doing well.

You are correct in assuming I don't work with the homeless, but I have a very close friend who does. I live close to Dallas, one of the wealthiest cities in the country; however, the Dallas Morning News posted an interesting article on July 10, 2022.

"They just take them to the door and let them out," Dallas County District Attorney John Creuzot told the Dallas Morning News.
Dallas County's average wait time for a state psychiatric hospital bed is longer than any other urban county in Texas, with some waiting more than 800 days for hospital admittance, according to state data.

Another major issue with many people who suffer from mental illness is the following:

Anosognosia, also called "lack of insight," is a symptom of severe mental illness experienced by some that impairs a person’s ability to understand and perceive his or her illness. It is the single largest reason why people with schizophrenia or bipolar disorder refuse medications or do not seek treatment. Without awareness of the illness, refusing treatment appears rational, no matter how clear the need for treatment might be to others.
Approximately 50% of individuals with schizophrenia and 40% with bipolar disorder have symptoms of anosognosia. Long recognized in stroke, Alzheimer’s disease and other neurological conditions, studies of anosognosia in psychiatric disorders is producing a growing body of evidence of anatomical damage in the part of the brain involved with self-reflection. When taking medications, insight improves in some patients.

Improving access to treatment for people too ill to seek help, including involuntary treatment when legal criteria are met, is one of the ways the Treatment Advocacy Center is working to fix the mental health system.
***

You definitely have a different kind of schizophrenia than any I'm familiar with. My mother could have never written or had cohesive thoughts as you do. Without treatment and family, she would have been homeless wandering the streets, and experiencing paranoia and delusions. She had anosognosia and never admitted that she had schizophrenia; HOWEVER,

when she agreed to treatment, which included electroshock therapy and psychotropic drugs, the paranoia went away, the delusions went away, and she was once again a loving mother. I'm afraid, "Over the Cuckoo's Nest" left many people believing only what was shown in the movie.

That is one of the reasons I brought the topic up. Yes, the ACLU and others advocate for people to have the right to wander the streets in the cold harsh winters and the severe heat in the summer. I ask how humane is that? We rescue animals, but who rescues the people whose very illness prevents them from asking for help?

The topic of mental illness is very difficult to discuss but absolutely necessary.

 

[aleshanee]

i am not always able to communate this well.... some days are better than others.... and i have gone through many ups and downs over the years.... ...some treatments and therapy works better than others... .some don;t work at all.... but without medication and the support of my family i too would be homeless and wandering the streets.... and i talk to myself all the time.. but there are many different reasons for that not always related to schizophrenia - and it never bothers people who know me well... in fact they get worried when i am quiet for too long.... ...

and even with medication and family support people on the outside call me paranoid and delusional all the time too.... even here on the forum sometimes... ... but in my opinion it;s more often than not used as a slam to brush me off when i have disagreed with them about something.... things.. i might add.. i am sometimes proven right about later.... but do they come back and say... "oh i;m sorry..... she was right?"...... hardly ever.......

i also get called hyper emotional all the time too....and that happens on this forum all the time too.... ....i understand it a little better now than i use to.... thanks to the MRI findings... but for many years i did not understand... and i still believe that calling me emotional often ended up just another way people would entertain themselves to say it and then watch me melt down over it or cry.... .... but part of being in a family like mine meant i had very dedicated protectors who quite often went into action on my behalf...

but here;s what was discovered about my specific type of schizophrenia and also the reason for the appearance of being overly emotional.... or at least the way i understand it.... (and i will try to give the short version)..... .early childhood sexual abuse causes some synapses... neurons and circuits in the developing brain of a child to begin developing the wrong way.... and it stops others cold in their tracks from developing... ..one of those areas of the brain that gets stopped cold from development is that which controls emotions.... ..so basically... and this is not easy to write about... .since all that started when i was 5 years old - in most areas of emotional maturity i ended up with the permanent emotional functions of a 5 year old.... ....that;s the diagnosis... doesn;t mean i agree with it or even understand it.. but i accept it as being what other people agree with and understand about me.... so there it is......

when you are suddenly thrown into the adult world as a child... when you are far too young to comprehend it all.... it has a devastating effect.... thankfully for some reason it did not effect my intellegence or ability to know something was wrong with me... i am not in that 50% of schizophrenics who has no sense of herself and denies she has a mental illness... ... but i can tell you that sometimes i wish i was.... ....i hear voices and other sounds that are not actually happening all the time.... without medications they become unbearable.... but with meds i can handle it and i wear very good noise cancelling headphones when i am at home that help me separate what i am actualy hearing...or what my ears are actually picking up..... and what my brain is falsely telling me i;m hearing... ....so most of the time i can deal with it very well..... .i do not go out in public alone or without planning who i am meeting up with and meeting up with quickly..... and every friend i have knows all about me.... knows what to expect ..and also knows what to do if something goes wrong... . which it sometimes does..... .

i can honestly say i am very blessed to have the family i;m a part of and also to have the friends i have.... .... and also to have the set of doctors who have treated me for years.... they are all christian and they have all known my adopted dad for many years.... (a city and state paramedic and firefighter - now retired) ...without all that i would not be able to function in a way even close to normal... and i would have never been on this forum or any like it at all..... there are a lot of things i am able to do i would never have been able to do.... and it;s all due to the family support i have and the support of others in my life... .....those things are vital for the function and survival of anyone with schizophrenia and many other mental illnesses.....

but there are still several things i cannot do... and some i am even prohibited by law from doing.... .....(and this goes towards the OP and the discussion of the nashville school shooter and murderer) ...i am not allowed to have any access to firearms.... i wrote about that in the donnas law thread a few days ago ....i also can;t get a drivers license.... i had one briefly many years ago but ended up almost causing a tragic accident when i had a seizure behind the wheel and my car rammed another vehicle stopped at a busy intersection.... thankfully he had his foot on the brake.....my drivers license was permamently suspended... ...i use to try to get it back but could never get medically cleared again.... eventually i gave up.... ...i also can;t handle cash.... i have been cheated out of money and lost money so times while shopping that eventually my sister set up a secured credit card account for me that she pays into and which i use if i want to buy something..... there is a security procedure vendors have to go through when i use it to verify i am really in front of them and that the amount is correct....

i also ... obviously.... can;t live on my own.... one brief experiment with that when i was in college and i tried to live in a house dorm with friends ended in near disaster.... ever since then i have either lived with my dad and his wife .... or my adopted sister - when she is working from her office here in honolulu.... (she doesn;t work in the health fields but has a phd in psychology she says she was inspirared to study for when we were still kids together... and she wanted to know how to help me)...... i also live with a very good set of room mates in this same apartment my sister owns when she is out of state... ...that;s how it was for quite a while until mid-pandemic when her company divested itself of all things new york city and moved her back here... .....there are a few other things of a physical nature due to childhood damage and not related to schizophrenia that i can;t do... or will never be able to do.... . but that;s a separate issue......

so how much did mental illness play into the nashville school shooters decision to do what he/she did?...... i don;t really know.... and until the manefesto is published none of us in the general public will ever know.... .. but i do know that too many times and with too many perpetrators of crimes like that mental illness often gets the blame when the reason was actually nothing but pure evil.... and when a person under temptation... any kind of temptation... refuses to turn that desire for sin over to God... but instead decides to live the sin and make both commision and promotion of that sin their lifestyle... then evil gets free reign over their life.... and what happens after that can take many different forms.... . but in general they usually go about doing the work of the devil - trying to destroy all things of God and to turn people away from God... or destroy Gods people themselves if they can;t turn them....... that is what i see happening with regards to the lgbtqi + alphabet soup consortium.... ...and we have only seen the beginning of what they will do in their efforts to destroy christianity... or in what the devil will do in order to push them to it....


you are correct that mental illness is a difficult topic to discuss.... but one of the things i was taught as a teenager is that in order to survive mental illness one has to be totally honest about themselves and fully grounded in reality.... that;s easier said than done... and it cannot be done at all without the help of God and a solid family.... ..i know what you mean about the illusions movies like "cuckoo nest" gave the general public concerning mental illness.... i have been temporarily confined in mental health wards more times than i want remember and i never in all those times saw a set up like what was portrayed in that movie.... there were no group sessions in the lock up... in fact the staff worked to keep mentally ill patients in those facilities separated because they know we feed off each other in a very detrimental way when placed together..... i have been in group counselling sessions.... as a teenager ....outpatient type - after my one and only suicide attempt.... but that was quickly seen as a failure and bad idea by the staff and my doctor pulled me out of it....

i don;t know much about how mental health and homeless issues are handled on the mainland.... but i do know this... cities where it gets life threateningly cold frequently offer their homeless and mentally ill patients a one way plane ticket to anywhere they want to go that is always warm..... and guess where most of them want to go?.... hawaii... the islands of endless summer.... our streets of full of homeless people who were not born here and have only been in hawaii a few years.... many of them have told the stories of how they got here.. i am heard them tell it.... ... but regardless of whether it is here or on the mainland the average lifespan of a person living on the streets is only about 3 years..... it;s recognized as part of the survival rule of 3s.... without hope and on their own that;s about as long as most people can last..... of course there are rare exceptions... but not many.....

 

[Dr. Huk-N-Duck]

It’s been educational to read the stories on here related to the mental health topic. I guess my feeling has always been that people with mental health challenges are like everyone else, with the majority being decent, ethical (and hopefully Christian) citizens, and a small minority who are not productive and not ethical, and can commit heinous crimes. It’s the same with people with health disabilities. I read a story not long ago about a guy with no legs who shot his wife to death. I don’t think the mental or physical challenges are part of a person’s character. You’ve either got good character or you don’t. My two cents…for what it’s worth.

 

[aleshanee]

It’s been educational to read the stories on here related to the mental health topic. I guess my feeling has always been that people with mental health challenges are like everyone else, with the majority being decent, ethical (and hopefully Christian) citizens, and a small minority who are not productive and not ethical, and can commit heinous crimes. It’s the same with people with health disabilities. I read a story not long ago about a guy with no legs who shot his wife to death. I don’t think the mental or physical challenges are part of a person’s character. You’ve either got good character or you don’t. My two cents…for what it’s worth.

very good observations in my opinion..... 2 pennies well spent..... ...over all mental health science is still in it;s primitive stage..... it will be many years... maybe decades before researchers are fully able to understand how the brain works.... if they ever do..... . it has come a long way from the days when the only option they had was to lock the mentally ill away and throw away the key..... but unfortunately that sentiment and belief still exists all over the fundamentlist world..... and many even still refuse to believe that mental illness is anything other than simply a behavioral issue or demon possession... .....there was one of those here a few years ago that i argued with..... i don;t know if the posts even exist any more..... but his moniker was itinerant preacher.... it was not long before that medical conversations on the fff was being dominated by a husband wife team in the ministry who insisted all medications were evil and unnecessary.... even meds for diabetes..... she insisted all diabetic issues no matter how severe could be controlled with cinnamon.....

shock therapy was mentioned in a few posts here..... . i meant to add.... but didn;t have the space to say... that i have never been subjected to shock therapy either.... (exceeded my word max in the previous post).... but my doctor believes electric shock therapy in treating mental illness is barbaric and outdated... there are much better ways to disrupt an active but abherant neural pathway and set the brain waves back on the right track... but without those proper neural pathways being present... as in someone for whom they never developed.... shocking them is nothing short of torture that does nothing but harm and nothing good...

even in treatment of cardiac issues electric shock is being used less often.... it;s still being used in full cardiac arrest where ventricular fibrillation is the underlying cause.... but many believe that eventually IV meds with rapid infusion will be able to adress that in a better way too..... but that is still years away as well..... my dad told us once about having to perform multiple defibrillations on a patient in a medivac flight once... the guy kept going into ventirular fibrillation and he had already been given the max doses of drugs to prevent it.... he said he shocked that poor guy so many times the inside of the helicopter started to smell like a human barbecue.... ..the guy survived but had burns on his chest were the defib pads had been..... he also had a bruised sternum because the first attempt to defib was a precordial thump delivered by a very robust navy medic before the EMS crew arrived.... it worked..... but.... some thought the medic enjoyed that part of his medical care delivery a little too much.....

 

[Dr. Huk-N-Duck]

I do recall reading (or maybe hearing) that shock therapy is still used, but it’s only in the very most severe cases, probably only used in something like .0001% of the time, whereas it used to be used at the drop of a hat.

 

[aleshanee]

I do recall reading (or maybe hearing) that shock therapy is still used, but it’s only in the very most severe cases, probably only used in something like .0001% of the time, whereas it used to be used at the drop of a hat.

there are horror stories out there about psych wards in the past where rogue staff members shocked mentally ill patients just for the sick intertainment value of watching them go through the contortions that a cerebral electric shock causes..... . i don;t know if those stories are true or not... but i have seen archived video of patients being shocked under what was considered proper methods and reasons..... and all i can say is i am so very thankful my doctor was against that and spared me from it......

 

[Gringo]

wow..... i had no idea you were such a smart-elleck.... or that you knew so little about the other people on this forum.... ... i myself suffer from schizophrenia.. .... and i am also part of a christian ministry that works to help get homeless people both mentally ill and otherwise, off the street and into shelters. .....i have been speaking up here since 2004 for the mentally ill and homeless... ... i have also written posts here and on another forum about new research and new findings about schizophrenia... even argued on behalf of both the mentally ill and homeless against irrate and itinerate forum preachers that were both here and gone long before you showed up.. they wanted to claim it was all demon possession..... .(i also work in other street ministries not related to this topic but which none-the-less work with those who have been trapped in the downward spirals that being a part of that world causes).... ... you would not have had to read very much here to know all that... ... but apparently you don;t read... you simply react....

and from what i know of dr e fuller torrey.... he has not only not kept up with that new research i mentioned but also still advocates for forcible and mandatory commitment of people with schizophrenia to mental institutions... (people like me )... and he;s also a big proponent of keeping us drugged out of our minds on psychotropics.... . . . maybe you are a friend of the occasional forum member here who once posted that i should be committed to a mental institution too?..... that would not surprise me at all the way you came riding in here like a knight on a white horse... . (or was it a mule?) - as soon as gay and trans pronouns came into question.. ..if i am wrong about that then i apologize.... but i have a hard time believing his presence here recently.... this topic going off topic .... as you called it..... or that your appearance here now with this righteous indignation is all just coincidence..... but whatever.... ..

now.... did you know that days before this transgender mass shooter who was reported to have had an emotional disorder, (no mention of schizophrenia)....murdered 3 chidren and 3 adults in a christian school.. that another trans and gay activist had written a post on instagram and twitter saying it was time for trans and gay communities to "arm up" ?.... to buy firearms and learn how to use them?..... he said the world was dangerous..especially for them.. and it was time for gay and trans people to become dangerous too......... ..maybe you missed that?..... the main stream news media missed it too.... or chose to overlook it.. ..either way they certainly don;t seem to want to assign any blame to that person for instigating the actions of this emotionally ill trans/gay activist.. but if it was a right wing shooter and had the posts come from a right wing activist you can bet they would have...

and why has nobody seen the manifesto of this latest mass murderer?...... could it be the left does not want the rest of us to know there is a war being waged on christians by the left and that the gay-atheist/agnostic trans community is just one of their latest conscripts?....

and could it also be that none of us here really care what your opinion is of how this thread drifted - since you did not start this thread.. and have so far made only this one sarcastic contribution to it?...... ..yeah.... that;s probably it...... at least it;s what i;m going with.....

Aleshanee,

What I said all those years ago, is a sad example of how powerful the tongue is. One can shoot an arrow and it never returns. I can't take back what I said. I can't "un" say it.

I recoil in horror at having hurt your feelings and can only say I'm sorry. That was 17 (or so) years ago and you still have not forgotten it (as you shouldn't). Words are sharper than any two edged sword and the tongue can do so much damage in a split second.

If I could take it back and start over with you, I would.

While I don't intend to post here often, as the occasional forum member, I very well may pop in from time to time to give my two cents on this or that and so, I want to tell you what a wonderful example you are to others facing misfortune.

I was very wrong and unkind.

With remorse,

Gringo

P.S I don't know Jo. The only Jo that I know does not live in Texas.