Christmas Gift from our Pastors

[Tim]

I knew something was happening when the pastor told everyone to sit down for a minute before dismissing yesterday morning. He explained that he felt the call to pastor in a Church located in a more heavily populated area. He further explained that he took a secular job January 3rd and would serve as pastor until the Lord found him a building or place to start a Church.

While I wasn't a 100% fan of him and his ministry, well, it became home and the blessings outweighed the bad I felt. So. Yes. This hit me hard along with my family.

Last night after service. I should mention a very low attended service. The youth pastor noticed my son looking blue and my son mentioned he was upset about the pastors announcement. The youth pastor said, "well, I should tell you  now that I am leaving also. I don't feel anyone would want me here when the pastor leaves. I want a more contemporary Church to work in"

Merry Christmas.

Now. To add more onto this for myself. I have been praying about my personal struggles at this Church and my growth in learning and appreciating the Reformed Theology. I prayed a few times to God, including just this past Saturday, that if God wanted me to leave this Church I would do this if the pastor left.

Now what?

This hits harder that you expect. My wife said she feels abandoned. My teens are crying.

I feel like we just left a Church even thought we are still welcome there. And we all know that based on the struggles the next pastor will be most likely more legalistic since this Church normally is more IFBx than this current generation.

Some have already said they will leave too.

 

[Walt]

Sorry for you - this is always hard to take.

 

[Tim]

Sorry for you - this is always hard to take.

It is hard to see a need elsewhere for your pastor when you see the local need at your own Church. It would be easier if we had in our congregation a man who would obviously take over the pulpit ministry.

 

[Twisted]

I knew something was happening when the pastor told everyone to sit down for a minute before dismissing yesterday morning. He explained that he felt the call to pastor in a Church located in a more heavily populated area. He further explained that he took a secular job January 3rd and would serve as pastor until the Lord found him a building or place to start a Church.

While I wasn't a 100% fan of him and his ministry, well, it became home and the blessings outweighed the bad I felt. So. Yes. This hit me hard along with my family.

Last night after service. I should mention a very low attended service. The youth pastor noticed my son looking blue and my son mentioned he was upset about the pastors announcement. The youth pastor said, "well, I should tell you  now that I am leaving also. I don't feel anyone would want me here when the pastor leaves. I want a more contemporary Church to work in"

Merry Christmas.

Now. To add more onto this for myself. I have been praying about my personal struggles at this Church and my growth in learning and appreciating the Reformed Theology. I prayed a few times to God, including just this past Saturday, that if God wanted me to leave this Church I would do this if the pastor left.

Now what?

This hits harder that you expect. My wife said she feels abandoned. My teens are crying.

I feel like we just left a Church even thought we are still welcome there. And we all know that based on the struggles the next pastor will be most likely more legalistic since this Church normally is more IFBx than this current generation.

Some have already said they will leave too.

Tough (I guess).  But better than him saying he got the organist pregnant.

 

[Tarheel Baptist]

I am sorry for the uncertainty this causes your family and the church.
I think the church has some decisions to make. Is the current Pastor leaving the area to begin his new work or simply starting a new church in the same town/area? If he's staying in town, then it appears some semblance of a church split is in your future.

Is the Youth Pastor going to officially resign? If not, his immaturity and inexperience is showing. It does appear that your church is in for some rough waters ahead. The leadership must get their act together and, along with the pastor and youth pastor have ONE plan that they can implement together.

Good luck with that...

Your family is another matter...you and your wife have the ability to decide what and when you will take action.

Praying for you, your family and your church family.

 

[Tim]

I am sorry for the uncertainty this causes your family and the church.
I think the church has some decisions to make. Is the current Pastor leaving the area to begin his new work or simply starting a new church in the same town/area? If he's staying in town, then it appears some semblance of a church split is in your future.

Is the Youth Pastor going to officially resign? If not, his immaturity and inexperience is showing. It does appear that your church is in for some rough waters ahead. The leadership must get their act together and, along with the pastor and youth pastor have ONE plan that they can implement together.

Good luck with that...

Your family is another matter...you and your wife have the ability to decide what and when you will take action.

Praying for you, your family and your church family.

Both pastors reached out to me this morning. The youth pastor has somewhat retracted his statement, though it is more out of acknowledging he had poor timing and seeing the harm already started with my teens.

It does seem like this could start a church split. He is speaking of starting a church in a town about 15-25 minutes away. I actually live closer to that town than the Church along with a few others.

Pastor wants to meet with me to share more of his plans.

 

[T-Bone]

I am sorry for the uncertainty this causes your family and the church.
I think the church has some decisions to make. Is the current Pastor leaving the area to begin his new work or simply starting a new church in the same town/area? If he's staying in town, then it appears some semblance of a church split is in your future.

Is the Youth Pastor going to officially resign? If not, his immaturity and inexperience is showing. It does appear that your church is in for some rough waters ahead. The leadership must get their act together and, along with the pastor and youth pastor have ONE plan that they can implement together.

Good luck with that...

Your family is another matter...you and your wife have the ability to decide what and when you will take action.

Praying for you, your family and your church family.

Both pastors reached out to me this morning. The youth pastor has somewhat retracted his statement, though it is more out of acknowledging he had poor timing and seeing the harm already started with my teens.

It does seem like this could start a church split. He is speaking of starting a church in a town about 15-25 minutes away. I actually live closer to that town than the Church along with a few others.

Pastor wants to meet with me to share more of his plans.

Danger Will Robinson...Danger!

 

[Twisted]

It does seem like this could start a church split. He is speaking of starting a church in a town about 15-25 minutes away.

If he does, he's a crook.

 

[Tarheel Baptist]

It does seem like this could start a church split. He is speaking of starting a church in a town about 15-25 minutes away.

If he does, he's a crook.

Depending on circumstances, plans and attitude, that may or may not be true.
But the odds are...

 

[sword]

If it is Gods will for him to leave then in time it will be best for all involved.

What is bad is when it's Gods will for the pastor to leave, and most know it, but he has no intention of doing so.

Look at all the pastors who are presiding over dying churches. Many of these churches would see success and growth if a younger man was at the helm.

How does a pastor and membership know when it's time for a change?


'

 

[Tim]

After a 2 hour meeting I have learned basically that he is ready to move from the country church setting into a more populated area where he can perform God's "calling" in a better way. The current Church is no longer the setting appropriate to perform that calling. And that calling is basically to assist better a hurting community that needs not only the gospel, but help for poor and homeless.

 

[Smellin Coffee]

From a book review. I haven't read the book but came across this topic:

So why might your pastor or other church employee leave under less than happy circumstances? Here is the list I gleaned as I read.

1. The Walt Disney Generation

The author defines the ?Walt Disney Generation? (WDG) as those who have grown up believing they can do anything as long as they think positive. That includes the author and me and many church members who tend to have high expectations of their pastors while simultaneously believing that they themselves could do a better job.

2. Burnout

Over 40% of ministry leaders and 47% of spouses report feelings of burnout, including unrealistic expectations and never-ending demands on time, energy, and family life.

3. The Values, Vision, and Structure of the Congregation or Other Organization

A misalignment of values and vision among staff or between employees and board/members may hasten departure, and organizational structures often impact the employee?s exit and whether it is done in a healthy way. I would also add here theological difference as described in an earlier article: On Not Agreeing to Disagree: Supporting Gay Marriage and Losing Your Job.

4. Disillusionment

Often related to lack of preparation for ministry and/or poor communication as issues arise.

5. Conflict

The author includes power struggles with boards or other leaders, and in some cases abuse of power. Even when there is no open conflict, I know that church politics can cause considerable stress and burnout.

6. Lack of Respect

From his own experience, the author highlights ageism which resists giving responsibility to new or younger employees, and devalues their contributions. Similarly I would add, where older employees are not respected for their experience, and where there is a lack of respect for members/constituents. As the author points out ?disrespect has become a cultural norm? (page 169); in contrast, the church and other Christian organizations need a culture of respect all around.

7. Financial Issues

Especially in times of declining church membership and budgets, pastors and other church employees may face pay reductions, be underpaid, or terminated. In one church, a pastor took a pay cut of $1000/month to help the church meet its budget, and after eight months another pay reduction was in the works which made it impossible for him to continue.

8. Ministerial pride and jealousy.

    Jealousy is a monster that every pastor must deal with on his or her own terms. Of course, recognizing that we are susceptible to it is the first step to that end?.For those of us Walt Disney Generation pastors out there, we find it especially easy to succumb to the green-eyed monster. WDG pastors typically want their success now. We?ve been told that we are going to do great things, prayed over, prophesied over, trained, and equipped by human standards, but we do not like our fort years in the desert. Moses did his time in the desert before the big showdown in Egypt. Joseph waited in the prison. That seeming obscurity drives us nuts. (155 -7)

9. Lack of personal boundaries including time with family and for vacation.

    Knowing and respecting both physical and mental boundaries are very important in the ministry. I?ve known many pastors who never take a day off, they drop everything to address an ?emergency? that turns out to be nothing more than Anxious Annie needing her pastor to hold her hand?.a pastor who constantly assumes that role can actually stymie Annie?s faith and reliance on the Lord. It also crosses boundaries for the pastor?s family. (page 167)

10. A person who should not be in ministry.

The author specifically mentions ?pastor-dictators,? and there may be others unsuited to ministry due to other forms of immaturity, lack of character or calling.

11. Unrealistic expectations placed on spouse and family.

Including the pressure that some churches put on the pastor?s spouse to serve as an unpaid staff member by teaching Sunday school, playing the piano, or taking on other responsibilities without compensation.

12. Life in the fishbowl.

Forced transparency and gossip, making unfair comparisons and criticisms of the pastor?s family.

Life in the Fishbowl and Why Your Pastor Left

 

[Tim]

From a book review. I haven't read the book but came across this topic:

So why might your pastor or other church employee leave under less than happy circumstances? Here is the list I gleaned as I read.

1. The Walt Disney Generation

The author defines the ?Walt Disney Generation? (WDG) as those who have grown up believing they can do anything as long as they think positive. That includes the author and me and many church members who tend to have high expectations of their pastors while simultaneously believing that they themselves could do a better job.

2. Burnout

Over 40% of ministry leaders and 47% of spouses report feelings of burnout, including unrealistic expectations and never-ending demands on time, energy, and family life.

3. The Values, Vision, and Structure of the Congregation or Other Organization

A misalignment of values and vision among staff or between employees and board/members may hasten departure, and organizational structures often impact the employee?s exit and whether it is done in a healthy way. I would also add here theological difference as described in an earlier article: On Not Agreeing to Disagree: Supporting Gay Marriage and Losing Your Job.

4. Disillusionment

Often related to lack of preparation for ministry and/or poor communication as issues arise.

5. Conflict

The author includes power struggles with boards or other leaders, and in some cases abuse of power. Even when there is no open conflict, I know that church politics can cause considerable stress and burnout.

6. Lack of Respect

From his own experience, the author highlights ageism which resists giving responsibility to new or younger employees, and devalues their contributions. Similarly I would add, where older employees are not respected for their experience, and where there is a lack of respect for members/constituents. As the author points out ?disrespect has become a cultural norm? (page 169); in contrast, the church and other Christian organizations need a culture of respect all around.

7. Financial Issues

Especially in times of declining church membership and budgets, pastors and other church employees may face pay reductions, be underpaid, or terminated. In one church, a pastor took a pay cut of $1000/month to help the church meet its budget, and after eight months another pay reduction was in the works which made it impossible for him to continue.

8. Ministerial pride and jealousy.

    Jealousy is a monster that every pastor must deal with on his or her own terms. Of course, recognizing that we are susceptible to it is the first step to that end?.For those of us Walt Disney Generation pastors out there, we find it especially easy to succumb to the green-eyed monster. WDG pastors typically want their success now. We?ve been told that we are going to do great things, prayed over, prophesied over, trained, and equipped by human standards, but we do not like our fort years in the desert. Moses did his time in the desert before the big showdown in Egypt. Joseph waited in the prison. That seeming obscurity drives us nuts. (155 -7)

9. Lack of personal boundaries including time with family and for vacation.

    Knowing and respecting both physical and mental boundaries are very important in the ministry. I?ve known many pastors who never take a day off, they drop everything to address an ?emergency? that turns out to be nothing more than Anxious Annie needing her pastor to hold her hand?.a pastor who constantly assumes that role can actually stymie Annie?s faith and reliance on the Lord. It also crosses boundaries for the pastor?s family. (page 167)

10. A person who should not be in ministry.

The author specifically mentions ?pastor-dictators,? and there may be others unsuited to ministry due to other forms of immaturity, lack of character or calling.

11. Unrealistic expectations placed on spouse and family.

Including the pressure that some churches put on the pastor?s spouse to serve as an unpaid staff member by teaching Sunday school, playing the piano, or taking on other responsibilities without compensation.

12. Life in the fishbowl.

Forced transparency and gossip, making unfair comparisons and criticisms of the pastor?s family.

Life in the Fishbowl and Why Your Pastor Left

Interesting read. Thanks.

 

[ALAYMAN]

Though it is sad when such things happen I'd look at it from a positive perspective and essentially say "good riddance to bad rubbish".  If you believe you are mature enough to usher in a positive change in this process then you might consider it an opportunity to strengthen the church through the pulpit search.

 

[Walt]

After a 2 hour meeting I have learned basically that he is ready to move from the country church setting into a more populated area where he can perform God's "calling" in a better way. The current Church is no longer the setting appropriate to perform that calling. And that calling is basically to assist better a hurting community that needs not only the gospel, but help for poor and homeless.

I keep hearing that statement and thinking $$$.

Less populated areas need the gospel as well.

 

[Tim]

After a 2 hour meeting I have learned basically that he is ready to move from the country church setting into a more populated area where he can perform God's "calling" in a better way. The current Church is no longer the setting appropriate to perform that calling. And that calling is basically to assist better a hurting community that needs not only the gospel, but help for poor and homeless.

I keep hearing that statement and thinking $$$.

Less populated areas need the gospel as well.

He did send me a linked in invitation already ... no mention of our current Church, just that he is building a new Church. I didn't accept.

With my pastor it is more about being a help to poor, down and out, and needy and less about preaching and teaching doctrine or theology weekly. He mentioned in the city you can open your church on cold nights to help homeless, or hand out breakfast to kids going to school ... all things you can't do easy in the country, or with our current body of believers since they are not accustom to such ministries from within the Church. He would have a fight for sure and as he said to me ... his own Church would give him freedom.

Oh well. No need to hash it out again. LOL This subject can really get we going (just ask my wife). LOL

 

[Tarheel Baptist]

After a 2 hour meeting I have learned basically that he is ready to move from the country church setting into a more populated area where he can perform God's "calling" in a better way. The current Church is no longer the setting appropriate to perform that calling. And that calling is basically to assist better a hurting community that needs not only the gospel, but help for poor and homeless.

I keep hearing that statement and thinking $$$.

Less populated areas need the gospel as well.

He did send me a linked in invitation already ... no mention of our current Church, just that he is building a new Church. I didn't accept.

With my pastor it is more about being a help to poor, down and out, and needy and less about preaching and teaching doctrine or theology weekly. He mentioned in the city you can open your church on cold nights to help homeless, or hand out breakfast to kids going to school ... all things you can't do easy in the country, or with our current body of believers since they are not accustom to such ministries from within the Church. He would have a fight for sure and as he said to me ... his own Church would give him freedom.

Oh well. No need to hash it out again. LOL This subject can really get we going (just ask my wife). LOL

Perhaps he should go into social work.

 

[Tim]

After a 2 hour meeting I have learned basically that he is ready to move from the country church setting into a more populated area where he can perform God's "calling" in a better way. The current Church is no longer the setting appropriate to perform that calling. And that calling is basically to assist better a hurting community that needs not only the gospel, but help for poor and homeless.

I keep hearing that statement and thinking $$$.

Less populated areas need the gospel as well.

He did send me a linked in invitation already ... no mention of our current Church, just that he is building a new Church. I didn't accept.

With my pastor it is more about being a help to poor, down and out, and needy and less about preaching and teaching doctrine or theology weekly. He mentioned in the city you can open your church on cold nights to help homeless, or hand out breakfast to kids going to school ... all things you can't do easy in the country, or with our current body of believers since they are not accustom to such ministries from within the Church. He would have a fight for sure and as he said to me ... his own Church would give him freedom.

Oh well. No need to hash it out again. LOL This subject can really get we going (just ask my wife). LOL

Perhaps he should go into social work.

I believe he is convinced the Churches job is social work to share the gospel and Christ. A tun of our messages this year were on helping the poor ... some really sharp criticism of those who don't help. He has often said that if we feed people, love on people, and get them comfortable with us they will respond to the Gospel better. Thing is - the Church body has resisted this since it isn't traditional Church. And well - that only proved to him that they are stubborn and he is right. It has been a huge struggle for our Church and has created "sides" for sure.

 

[Tarheel Baptist]

After a 2 hour meeting I have learned basically that he is ready to move from the country church setting into a more populated area where he can perform God's "calling" in a better way. The current Church is no longer the setting appropriate to perform that calling. And that calling is basically to assist better a hurting community that needs not only the gospel, but help for poor and homeless.

I keep hearing that statement and thinking $$$.

Less populated areas need the gospel as well.

He did send me a linked in invitation already ... no mention of our current Church, just that he is building a new Church. I didn't accept.

With my pastor it is more about being a help to poor, down and out, and needy and less about preaching and teaching doctrine or theology weekly. He mentioned in the city you can open your church on cold nights to help homeless, or hand out breakfast to kids going to school ... all things you can't do easy in the country, or with our current body of believers since they are not accustom to such ministries from within the Church. He would have a fight for sure and as he said to me ... his own Church would give him freedom.

Oh well. No need to hash it out again. LOL This subject can really get we going (just ask my wife). LOL

Perhaps he should go into social work.

I believe he is convinced the Churches job is social work to share the gospel and Christ. A tun of our messages this year were on helping the poor ... some really sharp criticism of those who don't help. He has often said that if we feed people, love on people, and get them comfortable with us they will respond to the Gospel better. Thing is - the Church body has resisted this since it isn't traditional Church. And well - that only proved to him that they are stubborn and he is right. It has been a huge struggle for our Church and has created "sides" for sure.

While I might disagree with his conclusions and the motivation, maybe he is sincerely trying to follow his conscience and convictions by leaving and starting a church based on his convictions. Starting a new church in a town 20-25 miles away isn't automatically a split make. If he proceeds with integrity, perhaps both churches can prosper.

 

[BALAAM]

I grew up in a very rural area and it seems to me that our churches spent much of their time searching for new pastors and running them in between pastors. This is one of the reasons I always had such a hard time with Hyles philosophy that deacons were merely there to wait on tables. They were the ones who were always fixing the stuff that pastors left behind. I recently read where Boob Gray wrote something like this. I just thought, If that is what a mog is we could do with far less of them!