David Eells: Unleavened Bread

[Dr. Huk-N-Duck]

Let me try to be a little more clear.

If someone is possessed, s/he will have their actions/behavior influenced by a demon. Correct?

On the other hand, if someone is not possessed but is under the influence of a demon, their actions/behavior will be influenced by the demon. Correct?

So, other than the actual act of being bodily possessed, there’s no other difference. Am I correct about this?

 

[abcaines]

Let me try to be a little more clear.

If someone is possessed, s/he will have their actions/behavior influenced by a demon. Correct?

On the other hand, if someone is not possessed but is under the influence of a demon, their actions/behavior will be influenced by the demon. Correct?

So, other than the actual act of being bodily possessed, there’s no other difference. Am I correct about this?

Job was clearly not possessed by Satan. But harassed. Job's response was clearly his own to make. I believe therein lies the difference.

 

[Dr. Huk-N-Duck]

Job was clearly not possessed by Satan. But harassed. Job's response was clearly his own to make. I believe therein lies the difference.

OK, that makes sense. So someone who is possessed might not be able to control their actions, whereas as Christian under demonic influence can control their actions. Thank you.

 

[Ransom]

From what I have read, Derek Prince seems to have backed off from that position.

He did, but a) though discredited, it's still out there, and b) him being deceased these 20 years, if some of that old material's still on his Web site, it's that much harder for it to be firmly disavowed.

Besides, I'd say the deliverance stuff also disqualifies him.

 

[Ransom]

I also grew up hearing that a Christian cannot be demon possessed, but I also recall consistently hearing that a Christian can be demon influenced.

Sure. Influenced, tempted, whatever you want to call it. Think of Wormwood in The Screwtape Letters, who operates by planting thoughts and temptations in his target's head.

If such a person chooses to act on those impulses, that's his responsibility, whereas in the case of a purported possession, the person would presumably not be responsible for his actions.

Believing we can be tempted to sin by Satan and his minions is mainstream Christianity. Believing demons possess Christians and are responsible for their sicknesses and unwelcome emotional issues isn't. That's some Manichaean bull.

 

[abcaines]

Besides, I'd say the deliverance stuff also disqualifies him.

Yes. That issue alone is enough to not get involved with the ministry.

I find it interesting that his bio on the ministry website reports that he lost hope and became bitter toward the Lord when his second wife passed.

 

[abcaines]

All cases of demonic possession or oppression in the scriptures showcase one over arching principle: no demon, not even Satan himself is permitted to do anything unless granted divine permission.

 

[aleshanee]

Interesting. Never heard of the guy until he was brought up in this thread. I did a search and found his ministry's website. Red flags starting popping up right away.

Being part of CC, I hear them emphasize the fact that Christians can't be possessed by demons but never gave much mind to where that teaching came from. Now I know.

i never heard of eells or any of the people/ministries mentioned in this thread before either - which is the reason i basically ignored it and stayed out of it... (the other reason is being too busy for internet stuff).... ..but the last few times i logged in here this was the only thread being added to - and the only subject being talking about.... .so i backtracked and looked it over... eells and all his associates appear to be cults to stay far away from.....

but as to the question of demon possession - i have been accused of that many times over the years... .mostly by people who didn;t understand - or refused to accept - what schizophrenia is and what is does to a person.... ...contrary to the belief of a few ifb-xer types a person can be saved by grace through faith in Christ and still suffer from schizophrenia .. as well as other mental illnesses... but what a saved person whom the Holy Spirit dwells in cannot do is be demon possessed.... ..like fssl said - it is not possible... ...

however the devil and his minions can still harass and torment christians.....and in many different ways.... . he can also push christians to harass and torment each other.. ...and while all of that is possible and can make christians truly miserable to the point they might even doubt their own salvation, or backslide into sin... - if they are truly a child of God and saved by the blood of Christ they will not completely leave their faith and go back to a pagan or false religion they might have once been a part of .... they might visit it or even dabble around in it... but they will burn inside knowing what they are trying to do is wrong.. and eventually God will draw them back to Himself.... ..if He doesn;t - or if that person can go back into the pagan world or a state of apostasy and be happy about it, then one has wonder if they were ever truly saved..... .

 

[Ekklesian]

i never heard of eells or any of the people/ministries mentioned in this thread before either - which is the reason i basically ignored it and stayed out of it... (the other reason is being too busy for internet stuff).... ..but the last few times i logged in here this was the only thread being added to - and the only subject being talking about.... .so i backtracked and looked it over... eells and all his associates appear to be cults to stay far away from.....

but as to the question of demon possession - i have been accused of that many times over the years... .mostly by people who didn;t understand - or refused to accept - what schizophrenia is and what is does to a person.... ...contrary to the belief of a few ifb-xer types a person can be saved by grace through faith in Christ and still suffer from schizophrenia .. as well as other mental illnesses... but what a saved person whom the Holy Spirit dwells in cannot do is be demon possessed.... ..like fssl said - it is not possible... ...

however the devil and his minions can still harass and torment christians.....and in many different ways.... . he can also push christians to harass and torment each other.. ...and while all of that is possible and can make christians truly miserable to the point they might even doubt their own salvation, or backslide into sin... - if they are truly a child of God and saved by the blood of Christ they will not completely leave their faith and go back to a pagan or false religion they might have once been a part of .... they might visit it or even dabble around in it... but they will burn inside knowing what they are trying to do is wrong.. and eventually God will draw them back to Himself.... ..if He doesn;t - or if that person can go back into the pagan world or a state of apostasy and be happy about it, then one has wonder if they were ever truly saved..... .

This...

 

[riri4truth]

What do you know about this guy and ministry?

After reading this whole thread I feel like we need to come back to the original question for the sake of those looking for the truth about this ministry:

I am an ex member of this group. Before we left we were more involved with the inner workings and we were heavily involved. Since then we've discovered much as we've disentangled from this group. We still have friends on the inside that we love and pray for and hope that they will be set free too. Perhaps in the future I can share our full story if it might help anyone. At least, this UBM group is very tiny and David's reach is very small - hardly anyone knows about them or follows them - but the ones that do and have are still suffering from the damage of the spiritual abuse. Novertheless, the friends and family of those still in this mess needs to know the truth and be set free, by the grace of God

With regards to UBM, if you would like to know whether it is an authoritative high controlling group, whether your friends and family are indeed in a religious cult - then please go through my notes on comparing Steven Hassan's BITE model of criteria for over-reach with the methods of David Eells and Michael Hare's Unleavened Bread Ministries (UBM). I have attached in PDF with my comments in red - this would be a good reference and starting point and clear indication for what we are actually dealing with here.

Note: In order to keep the notes short I have not linked to the evidence. All notes are either our own personal experience or evidenced by others. If anyone would like specific evidence and can't find support for it on their own self-condemning ubm1.org website (which admittedly is very hard to navigate) please send me a message. There are lots of evidence for these comments on YouTube on the @TruthsBehindCults channel too. I am not associated with the channel but I am grateful for whoever it is that is making this available publicly and lifting the lid on the inner workings of UBM and the spiritual abuse that goes with it.

@FSSL - if you have a loved one in there then I will pray for them that God opens their eyes and sets them free. He has done it for so many.

God bless you all - let's be kind to and have grace for each other like our Lord Jesus would

 

[abcaines]

After reading this whole thread I feel like we need to come back to the original question for the sake of those looking for the truth about this ministry:

I am an ex member of this group. My wife and I were part of it to various extents for more than 10 years. Before we left in 2023 we were more involved with the inner workings and we were heavily involved, but we were not local in TN. Since then we've discovered much as we've disentangled from this group. We still have friends on the inside that we love and pray for and hope that they will be set free too. Perhaps in the future I can share our full story if it might help anyone. At least, this UBM group is very tiny and David's reach is very small - hardly anyone knows about them or follows them - but the ones that do and have are still suffering from the damage of the spiritual abuse. Novertheless, the friends and family of those still in this mess needs to know the truth and be set free, by the grace of God

With regards to UBM, if you would like to know whether it is an authoritative high controlling group, whether your friends and family are indeed in a religious cult - then please go through my notes on comparing Steven Hassan's BITE model of criteria for over-reach with the methods of David Eells and Michael Hare's Unleavened Bread Ministries (UBM). I have attached in PDF with my comments in red - this would be a good reference and starting point and clear indication for what we are actually dealing with here.

Note: In order to keep the notes short I have not linked to the evidence. All notes are either our own personal experience or evidenced by others. If anyone would like specific evidence and can't find support for it on their own self-condemning ubm1.org website (which admittedly is very hard to navigate) please send me a message. There are lots of evidence for these comments on YouTube on the @TruthsBehindCults channel too. I am not associated with the channel but I am grateful for whoever it is that is making this available publicly and lifting the lid on the inner workings of UBM and the spiritual abuse that goes with it.

@FSSL - if you have a loved one in there then I will pray for them that God opens their eyes and sets them free. He has done it for so many.

God bless you all - let's be kind to and have grace for each other like our Lord Jesus would

How does UBM go global? Does Eells have henchmen he sends out? How is control exerted over those who are far away from the home base?

 

[riri4truth]

How does UBM go global? Does Eells have henchmen he sends out? How is control exerted over those who are far away from the home base?

That's a good question. It's mainly through word of mouth distribution of his books. All his materials are free to download and buying hardcopies are minimal to cover only printing costs. The most popular books and the ones that gets the most people interested is: "Sovereign God For Us and Through US", "Hidden Mana for the End Times" and "The Real Good News". The control I have highligthed in the document, if you are not local or engaged with the online zoom meetings, will then be through the doctrines and teachings he has been putting out since the 1980's. Him and Michael Hare (who looks after the online community) can really only exert control over their close followers in the local assembly and loyal online followers that link in via Zoom 3-4 x weekly. Again, it's so small though, but it has been going on for so long.

 

[abcaines]

That's a good question. It's mainly through word of mouth distribution of his books. All his materials are free to download and buying hardcopies are minimal to cover only printing costs. The most popular books and the ones that gets the most people interested is: "Sovereign God For Us and Through US", "Hidden Mana for the End Times" and "The Real Good News". The control I have highligthed in the document, if you are not local or engaged with the online zoom meetings, will then be through the doctrines and teachings he has been putting out since the 1980's. Him and Michael Hare (who looks after the online community) can really only exert control over their close followers in the local assembly and loyal online followers that link in via Zoom 3-4 x weekly. Again, it's so small though, but it has been going on for so long.

So, one needs to be absolutely bought into the doctrine. The physical control via fear isn't a factor such as was at Jim Jones' compound. Eells' control is via loyalty. Is that a fair assessment?

I can see control through loyalty resulting in a smaller more cohesive group.

 

[riri4truth]

So, one needs to be absolutely bought into the doctrine. The physical control via fear isn't a factor such as was at Jim Jones' compound. Eells' control is via loyalty. Is that a fair assessment?

I can see control through loyalty resulting in a smaller more cohesive group

Yes that is correct

 

[riri4truth]

So, one needs to be absolutely bought into the doctrine. The physical control via fear isn't a factor such as was at Jim Jones' compound. Eells' control is via loyalty. Is that a fair assessment?

I can see control through loyalty resulting in a smaller more cohesive group.

And the "fear of falling away" and being "reprobated" if you don't hold fast to your faith for healing for a loved one or yourself is what caused quite a few to ultimately die under his watch/advice - refer to news articles regarding Dale Nuemann's daughter.

 

[abcaines]

Very insightful. Thank you for the information.

 

[Ekklesian]

After reading this whole thread I feel like we need to come back to the original question for the sake of those looking for the truth about this ministry:

I am an ex member of this group. My wife and I were part of it to various extents for more than 10 years. Before we left in 2023 we were more involved with the inner workings and we were heavily involved, but we were not local in TN. Since then we've discovered much as we've disentangled from this group. We still have friends on the inside that we love and pray for and hope that they will be set free too. Perhaps in the future I can share our full story if it might help anyone. At least, this UBM group is very tiny and David's reach is very small - hardly anyone knows about them or follows them - but the ones that do and have are still suffering from the damage of the spiritual abuse. Novertheless, the friends and family of those still in this mess needs to know the truth and be set free, by the grace of God

With regards to UBM, if you would like to know whether it is an authoritative high controlling group, whether your friends and family are indeed in a religious cult - then please go through my notes on comparing Steven Hassan's BITE model of criteria for over-reach with the methods of David Eells and Michael Hare's Unleavened Bread Ministries (UBM). I have attached in PDF with my comments in red - this would be a good reference and starting point and clear indication for what we are actually dealing with here.

Note: In order to keep the notes short I have not linked to the evidence. All notes are either our own personal experience or evidenced by others. If anyone would like specific evidence and can't find support for it on their own self-condemning ubm1.org website (which admittedly is very hard to navigate) please send me a message. There are lots of evidence for these comments on YouTube on the @TruthsBehindCults channel too. I am not associated with the channel but I am grateful for whoever it is that is making this available publicly and lifting the lid on the inner workings of UBM and the spiritual abuse that goes with it.

@FSSL - if you have a loved one in there then I will pray for them that God opens their eyes and sets them free. He has done it for so many.

God bless you all - let's be kind to and have grace for each other like our Lord Jesus would

The pdf uploaded has some useful info, but orthodox Christianity can fall within these psychological profiles of cults as well. Discipleship is a form of indoctrination. There are standards of the faith, and certain kinds of knowledge that are forbidden. There is also a standard of behavior and certainly sexual morals and a qualification for marriage and/or companionship.

Jesus said very simply. "Ye shall know [false prophets] by their fruits."

For me to call some nominal Christian group a cult, there must be 1) a single authoritative figure who is seen to be God's sole prophet or apostle for the group; 2) a practice of isolating members from society, or, at the very least, from their families and heritage; and 3) teach a plainly unbiblical doctrine whether by epistemology or practice that manifests itself in the sanctification of some form of concupiscence or licentiousness.

 

[riri4truth]

The pdf uploaded has some useful info, but orthodox Christianity can fall within these psychological profiles of cults as well. Discipleship is a form of indoctrination. There are standards of the faith, and certain kinds of knowledge that are forbidden. There is also a standard of behavior and certainly sexual morals and a qualification for marriage and/or companionship.

Jesus said very simply. "Ye shall know [false prophets] by their fruits."

For me to call some nominal Christian group a cult, there must be 1) a single authoritative figure who is seen to be God's sole prophet or apostle for the group; 2) a practice of isolating members from society, or, at the very least, from their families and heritage; and 3) teach a plainly unbiblical doctrine whether by epistemology or practice that manifests itself in the sanctification of some form of concupiscence or licentiousness.

Yes thanks Ekklesian, that is well put - there are "cultish" kind of behaviours all around us, even in a workplace or relationships, that doesn't mean necessarily it is a cult. What I didn't do on the pdf I shared is rate to what extent the different methods are happening and it is only a guide to determine if you are indeed dealing with potential overreach. Maybe I will do that eventually when I have some time. Nonetheless, even according to your 3 point list, which might be a bit simplistic as these things can be very complicated, the experience of ex-members combined, and feedback from the International Cultic Studies Association, David Eells and Unleavened Bread Ministries is a cult and is dangerous. There is no need to go near it for anyone.

Thus if you know anyone involved and want to help them you need to be careful how you approach them. There are well researched strategies available on how to gently and lovingly approach the situation.

 

[abcaines]

David Eells and Unleavened Bread Ministries is a cult and is dangerous. There is no need to go near it for anyone.

I, for one, will steer clear of UBM.

 

[zechariah]

i never heard of eells or any of the people/ministries mentioned in this thread before either - which is the reason i basically ignored it and stayed out of it... (the other reason is being too busy for internet stuff).... ..but the last few times i logged in here this was the only thread being added to - and the only subject being talking about.... .so i backtracked and looked it over... eells and all his associates appear to be cults to stay far away from.....

but as to the question of demon possession - i have been accused of that many times over the years... .mostly by people who didn;t understand - or refused to accept - what schizophrenia is and what is does to a person.... ...contrary to the belief of a few ifb-xer types a person can be saved by grace through faith in Christ and still suffer from schizophrenia .. as well as other mental illnesses... but what a saved person whom the Holy Spirit dwells in cannot do is be demon possessed.... ..like fssl said - it is not possible... ...

however the devil and his minions can still harass and torment christians.....and in many different ways.... . he can also push christians to harass and torment each other.. ...and while all of that is possible and can make christians truly miserable to the point they might even doubt their own salvation, or backslide into sin... - if they are truly a child of God and saved by the blood of Christ they will not completely leave their faith and go back to a pagan or false religion they might have once been a part of .... they might visit it or even dabble around in it... but they will burn inside knowing what they are trying to do is wrong.. and eventually God will draw them back to Himself.... ..if He doesn;t - or if that person can go back into the pagan world or a state of apostasy and be happy about it, then one has wonder if they were ever truly saved..... .

He was telling you some things. Our false teachings were more than you expected. We were his lab rats