Did Abraham "pimp" his wife?

[rsc2a]

adul?tery


\?-?d?l-t(?-)r?\noun

: sex between a married person and someone who is not that person's wife or husband

Full Definition

plural adul?ter?ies

:voluntary sexual intercourse between a married man and someone other than his wife or between a married woman and someone other than her husband;

 

[praise_yeshua]

Wait! Did you also just say Abraham was NOT an adulterer?

No Abraham wasn't an adulterer. Do you have a reading comprehension problem?

He had sex with a woman who wasn't his wife. What do you call that?

I know you don't understand the culture of that time period and I'm not going an extended amount of time educating you on those facts.

Hagar was Sarah's handmade. According to the law. Whatever child was born in her household.... by extension, was her children.

Exo 21:4  If his master have given him a wife, and she have born him sons or daughters; the wife and her children shall be her master's.

What Abraham did wasn't sinful. In fact, God made of Ishmael.... a great nation. Ishmael wasn't the promised heir but he was a son of Abraham. God blessed him. Just has he blessed the sons of Keturah.

It it would do all of you some good to understand this relationship and how it birth Islam. There is much common ground in these truths and dealing with Isalm and the promises of Christ Jesus to all peoples of the earth.

 

[praise_yeshua]

adul?tery


\?-?d?l-t(?-)r?\noun

: sex between a married person and someone who is not that person's wife or husband

Full Definition

plural adul?ter?ies

:voluntary sexual intercourse between a married man and someone other than his wife or between a married woman and someone other than her husband;

You're using a modern English definition to define a preExudos understanding of Canaan culture and the roots of Hebrew culture? You should just back away now. You have no idea what you're talking about.

 

[Just John]

I don't respect a lie or those who tolerate it.

No self respect. Well that helps explain why you are so angry all the time.

I forgot how you think so very fondly of yourself.

Self respect? Where do you find that in the Scriptures? I can tell you where to find it..... Its called "Pride". The way you've lied about Abraham and Sarah is full proof you're full of pride.

Matt. 22:39  A second is equally important: love your neighbor as yourself.

As for being "easily impressed"...you have a ways to go in my book.

How does loving yourself = "self respect"?

I know you know better. Just what is the center point of "self respect". Its pride. I love myself. Sure I do. God loves me too. God doesn't "respect" my inabilities or my foolish pride. Neither do I. This doesn't change the fact that I love myself.

You're being entirely ridiculous.

What do you mean by "I've got a ways to go in your book"?  Don't hold back. Lay it out there.

Are you f

From dictionary.com

self-respect:
proper esteem or regard for the dignity of one's character.

Yes, perhaps I can see why you struggle with the concept of self-respect.

 

[rsc2a]

Its amazing to me how you'd use such terminology toward the father of faith and wife....... and then whine about how its not Christian like for me to call you a name you don't like.

Oh we didn't stop there. We also said it's not Christian for you

- to put profit ahead of people.
- to lie about others.
- to be so arrogant that you cannot admit error.
- to be a coward about your "faith" in other to save your own skin.
- to be selfish and stating the "rightness" of putting your own wants over the needs of others
- to elevate self and disregard the community
- to call evil good

 

[Just John]

Might be nice to summarize this thread...

PY: Can you believe rsc2a believes this? He's such a moron.

Everyone else: We agree with him.

Pretty much.

I probably wouldn't have used your terminology but the fact remains that Abraham was willing to sacrifice his wife to appease Pharaoh.

I think it depends on context. That context was on whether fallen leaders should ever be restored to ministry and some wanted to offer zero grace.

Taking the pretty language off of actions by guys like Abraham (liar, adulterer, pimp, coward), David (liar, adulterer, murderer, coward), and Peter (liar, hypocrite, coward) and showing how God used them mightily not because they were awesome but because they were chosen and had the faith of that choosing.

My kids have no delusions that these guys wore white hats. My kids also know they were great men of faith who should emulated in many ways. (e.g. When we discussed Lot's incest, we also discussed how he was called a righteous man. Difficult for a pre-teen to grasp but vital if they are to have a strong foundation to land on when they inevitably screw up.)

Just as I thought. You love to find fault in others so you don't feel as bad when you "screw up". I said it several posts ago and I was right.

What a wonderful thing to teach your children. You lie about Abraham being a pimp and committing adultery to drag him down to your level. A sinner that justifies his sin by pointing at the supposed sins of others. You're worse than any MOG you've disparaged here.

I pray your children understand how just how stupid their father is.

Your use of MOG here is interesting. As I was following the thread and reading of Rsca's account of looking at the unvarnished view of some of the "heroes of the Bible" I was thinking of how  too often pastors and preachers are put on a pedastal because many of them can't admit to their weaknesses AND others succumbing to unhealthy man worship. As a result they become the MOG in their own mind and in the mind of others. This often results in an unhealthy  sprititual  pride for the pastor an an unhealthy spiritual inferiority for those he pastors. Honesty is always the beginning point at which we need to live our lives.  When we , cough, cough, admit we are wrong, we are truly honest and relatable to others.

I am more wrong than I would like to  be.  But it's nice to know God still loves me and accepts me...just as he loved our spiritual forefathers who also had feet of clay. That doesn't excuse anything I do. But it does tell me just how much God loves me, even when I do fall short.

 

[praise_yeshua]

I don't respect a lie or those who tolerate it.

No self respect. Well that helps explain why you are so angry all the time.

I forgot how you think so very fondly of yourself.

Self respect? Where do you find that in the Scriptures? I can tell you where to find it..... Its called "Pride". The way you've lied about Abraham and Sarah is full proof you're full of pride.

Matt. 22:39  A second is equally important: love your neighbor as yourself.

As for being "easily impressed"...you have a ways to go in my book.

How does loving yourself = "self respect"?

I know you know better. Just what is the center point of "self respect". Its pride. I love myself. Sure I do. God loves me too. God doesn't "respect" my inabilities or my foolish pride. Neither do I. This doesn't change the fact that I love myself.

You're being entirely ridiculous.

What do you mean by "I've got a ways to go in your book"?  Don't hold back. Lay it out there.

Are you f

From dictionary.com

self-respect:
proper esteem or regard for the dignity of one's character.

Yes, perhaps I can see why you struggle with the concept of self-respect.

Did you notice that word "esteem"? Ever heard of "self esteem"? How about "self confidence"?

Ever heard of the word "synonym"? If you apply them.... you might just get ..... "Pride"

Or.... you could use a several different definitions for "self respect".... like

"pride and confidence in oneself"

You know the KJV just has a way of saying things sometimes.....

Php 3:3  For we are the circumcision, which worship God in the spirit, and rejoice in Christ Jesus, and have no confidence in the flesh.

Have all the self confidence and respect you can get. Enjoy your delusion.

 

[rsc2a]

[quote author=Just John]I am more wrong than I would like to  be.  But it's nice to know God still loves me and accepts me...just as he loved our spiritual forefathers who also had feet of clay. That doesn't excuse anything I do. But it does tell me just how much God loves me, even when I do fall short.[/quote]

Ding! Ding! Ding! We have a winner!

 

[praise_yeshua]

Might be nice to summarize this thread...

PY: Can you believe rsc2a believes this? He's such a moron.

Everyone else: We agree with him.

Pretty much.

I probably wouldn't have used your terminology but the fact remains that Abraham was willing to sacrifice his wife to appease Pharaoh.

I think it depends on context. That context was on whether fallen leaders should ever be restored to ministry and some wanted to offer zero grace.

Taking the pretty language off of actions by guys like Abraham (liar, adulterer, pimp, coward), David (liar, adulterer, murderer, coward), and Peter (liar, hypocrite, coward) and showing how God used them mightily not because they were awesome but because they were chosen and had the faith of that choosing.

My kids have no delusions that these guys wore white hats. My kids also know they were great men of faith who should emulated in many ways. (e.g. When we discussed Lot's incest, we also discussed how he was called a righteous man. Difficult for a pre-teen to grasp but vital if they are to have a strong foundation to land on when they inevitably screw up.)

Just as I thought. You love to find fault in others so you don't feel as bad when you "screw up". I said it several posts ago and I was right.

What a wonderful thing to teach your children. You lie about Abraham being a pimp and committing adultery to drag him down to your level. A sinner that justifies his sin by pointing at the supposed sins of others. You're worse than any MOG you've disparaged here.

I pray your children understand how just how stupid their father is.

Your use of MOG here is interesting. As I was following the thread and reading of Rsca's account of looking at the unvarnished view of some of the "heroes of the Bible" I was thinking of how  too often pastors and preachers are put on a pedastal because many of them can't admit to their weaknesses AND others succumbing to unhealthy man worship. As a result they become the MOG in their own mind and in the mind of others. This often results in an unhealthy  sprititual  pride for the pastor an an unhealthy spiritual inferiority for those he pastors. Honesty is always the beginning point at which we need to live our lives.  When we , cough, cough, admit we are wrong, we are truly honest and relatable to others.

I am more wrong than I would like to  be.  But it's nice to know God still loves me and accepts me...just as he loved our spiritual forefathers who also had feet of clay. That doesn't excuse anything I do. But it does tell me just how much God loves me, even when I do fall short.

I never said Abraham was sinless. I never said he didn't fail. However, he wasn't a pimp and Sarah wasn't his little whore to appease Pharaoh.

Don't blur the lines. Give Abraham credit where credit is due. God said some very great things about Abraham. Things he didn't say about too many others. That NUT is trying to drag him down to their level so he can feel good when his children fall. It brings great comfort to them to know you can be a whore and pimp and God can still use you.

 

[Just John]

I don't respect a lie or those who tolerate it.

No self respect. Well that helps explain why you are so angry all the time.

I forgot how you think so very fondly of yourself.

Self respect? Where do you find that in the Scriptures? I can tell you where to find it..... Its called "Pride". The way you've lied about Abraham and Sarah is full proof you're full of pride.

Matt. 22:39  A second is equally important: love your neighbor as yourself.

As for being "easily impressed"...you have a ways to go in my book.

How does loving yourself = "self respect"?

I know you know better. Just what is the center point of "self respect". Its pride. I love myself. Sure I do. God loves me too. God doesn't "respect" my inabilities or my foolish pride. Neither do I. This doesn't change the fact that I love myself.

You're being entirely ridiculous.

What do you mean by "I've got a ways to go in your book"?  Don't hold back. Lay it out there.

Are you f

From dictionary.com

self-respect:
proper esteem or regard for the dignity of one's character.

Yes, perhaps I can see why you struggle with the concept of self-respect.

Did you notice that word "esteem"? Ever heard of "self esteem"? How about "self confidence"?

Ever heard of the word "synonym"? If you apply them.... you might just get ..... "Pride"

Or.... you could use a several different definitions for "self respect".... like

"pride and confidence in oneself"

You know the KJV just has a way of saying things sometimes.....

Php 3:3  For we are the circumcision, which worship God in the spirit, and rejoice in Christ Jesus, and have no confidence in the flesh.

Have all the self confidence and respect you can get. Enjoy your delusion.

Context, context. Of course in context Paul is talking here about his good works not being good enough to save him.

 

[rsc2a]

Context, context. Of course in context Paul is talking here about his good works not being good enough to save him.

If he looked at context, he'd have to:

- abandon his situational ethics.
- stop calling evil good and
- admit he was wrong.

I think the likelihood of any of the above is close to nil.

 

[FSSL]

YOU twisted my words. But then again, the topic is so silly.... It happens.

Please explain. Maybe I misunderstood your position. You agreed with NUTS position on "pimping" Sarah.

What did I twist about your "violate" comments?

You said that I said she was actually violated. I said he "allowed her to be violated."

What is the difference? Explain.

You could have easily have said "he allowed the possibility of her being violated". That isn't what you said. You said he allowed her to be violated. Which means. She was violated.

Nope. I was clear that he allowed. You are wrong about the meaning of English.

Doesn't matter...

You said he allowed her to be violated. You then said she wasn't violated. These two statement are contradictory. Anyone on their right mind knows they are not complimentary.

Only contradictory to a person who does not understand the meaning, and extent, of the word "allowed." SMH

 

[praise_yeshua]

I don't respect a lie or those who tolerate it.

No self respect. Well that helps explain why you are so angry all the time.

I forgot how you think so very fondly of yourself.

Self respect? Where do you find that in the Scriptures? I can tell you where to find it..... Its called "Pride". The way you've lied about Abraham and Sarah is full proof you're full of pride.

Matt. 22:39  A second is equally important: love your neighbor as yourself.

As for being "easily impressed"...you have a ways to go in my book.

How does loving yourself = "self respect"?

I know you know better. Just what is the center point of "self respect". Its pride. I love myself. Sure I do. God loves me too. God doesn't "respect" my inabilities or my foolish pride. Neither do I. This doesn't change the fact that I love myself.

You're being entirely ridiculous.

What do you mean by "I've got a ways to go in your book"?  Don't hold back. Lay it out there.

Are you f

From dictionary.com

self-respect:
proper esteem or regard for the dignity of one's character.

Yes, perhaps I can see why you struggle with the concept of self-respect.

Did you notice that word "esteem"? Ever heard of "self esteem"? How about "self confidence"?

Ever heard of the word "synonym"? If you apply them.... you might just get ..... "Pride"

Or.... you could use a several different definitions for "self respect".... like

"pride and confidence in oneself"

You know the KJV just has a way of saying things sometimes.....

Php 3:3  For we are the circumcision, which worship God in the spirit, and rejoice in Christ Jesus, and have no confidence in the flesh.

Have all the self confidence and respect you can get. Enjoy your delusion.

Context, context. Of course in context Paul is talking here about his good works not being good enough to save him.

You're claims of context aside..... how about dealing with everything I said. I'll deal with "your context claim" after you be a man and not just cherry pick what you would like to deal with.

 

[praise_yeshua]

YOU twisted my words. But then again, the topic is so silly.... It happens.

Please explain. Maybe I misunderstood your position. You agreed with NUTS position on "pimping" Sarah.

What did I twist about your "violate" comments?

You said that I said she was actually violated. I said he "allowed her to be violated."

What is the difference? Explain.

You could have easily have said "he allowed the possibility of her being violated". That isn't what you said. You said he allowed her to be violated. Which means. She was violated.

Nope. I was clear that he allowed. You are wrong about the meaning of English.

Doesn't matter...

You said he allowed her to be violated. You then said she wasn't violated. These two statement are contradictory. Anyone on their right mind knows they are not complimentary.

Only contradictory to a person who does not understand the meaning, and extent, of the word "allowed." SMH

Explain how "allowed" changes violated to not violated?

If that is what you intended, then you horribly misused allow. The way you used allow doesn't support a negative.

 

[Just John]

I don't respect a lie or those who tolerate it.

No self respect. Well that helps explain why you are so angry all the time.

I forgot how you think so very fondly of yourself.

Self respect? Where do you find that in the Scriptures? I can tell you where to find it..... Its called "Pride". The way you've lied about Abraham and Sarah is full proof you're full of pride.

Matt. 22:39  A second is equally important: love your neighbor as yourself.

As for being "easily impressed"...you have a ways to go in my book.

How does loving yourself = "self respect"?

I know you know better. Just what is the center point of "self respect". Its pride. I love myself. Sure I do. God loves me too. God doesn't "respect" my inabilities or my foolish pride. Neither do I. This doesn't change the fact that I love myself.

You're being entirely ridiculous.

What do you mean by "I've got a ways to go in your book"?  Don't hold back. Lay it out there.

Are you f

From dictionary.com

self-respect:
proper esteem or regard for the dignity of one's character.

Yes, perhaps I can see why you struggle with the concept of self-respect.

Did you notice that word "esteem"? Ever heard of "self esteem"? How about "self confidence"?

Ever heard of the word "synonym"? If you apply them.... you might just get ..... "Pride"

Or.... you could use a several different definitions for "self respect".... like

"pride and confidence in oneself"

You know the KJV just has a way of saying things sometimes.....

Php 3:3  For we are the circumcision, which worship God in the spirit, and rejoice in Christ Jesus, and have no confidence in the flesh.

Have all the self confidence and respect you can get. Enjoy your delusion.

Context, context. Of course in context Paul is talking here about his good works not being good enough to save him.

You're claims of context aside..... how about dealing with everything I said. I'll deal with "your context claim" after you be a man and not just cherry pick what you would like to deal with.

I'm not sure what I missed of import responding to. Not everything is worth a  response. Please let me know and I will be happy to oblige you.

 

[subllibrm]

Scenario:

I hand PY a gun and tell him that it is okay for him to shoot me. He declines to shoot me and lays the gun on the table.

In this scenario, I chose to "allow" PY to shoot me but he decided not to. The fact that he did not shoot me does not negate the fact that I allowed him to shoot me.

In hindsight, do you think it may have helped PY to comprehend the thought if FSSL has said that Abraham had allowed for his wife to be violated?  ???

Nah.

 

[praise_yeshua]

Scenario:

I hand PY a gun and tell him that it is okay for him to shoot me. He declines to shoot me and lays the gun on the table.

In this scenario, I chose to "allow" PY to shoot me but he decided not to. The fact that he did not shoot me does not negate the fact that I allowed him to shoot me.

In hindsight, do you think it may have helped PY to comprehend the thought if FSSL has said that Abraham had allowed for his wife to be violated?  ???

Nah.

I know you think you're smart...... but your scenario doesn't fit the grammar used by FSSL.

The way FSSL used allowed..... doesn't permit the use of a negative. At least he's smart enough to know this. Which is why he hasn't responded.

The only way to compare your scenario to what FSSL is to rephrase and say

"someone" allowed subllibrm to be shot with a gun. There is no room in such a statement to address a negative.

 

[praise_yeshua]

I don't respect a lie or those who tolerate it.

No self respect. Well that helps explain why you are so angry all the time.

I forgot how you think so very fondly of yourself.

Self respect? Where do you find that in the Scriptures? I can tell you where to find it..... Its called "Pride". The way you've lied about Abraham and Sarah is full proof you're full of pride.

Matt. 22:39  A second is equally important: love your neighbor as yourself.

As for being "easily impressed"...you have a ways to go in my book.

How does loving yourself = "self respect"?

I know you know better. Just what is the center point of "self respect". Its pride. I love myself. Sure I do. God loves me too. God doesn't "respect" my inabilities or my foolish pride. Neither do I. This doesn't change the fact that I love myself.

You're being entirely ridiculous.

What do you mean by "I've got a ways to go in your book"?  Don't hold back. Lay it out there.

Are you f

From dictionary.com

self-respect:
proper esteem or regard for the dignity of one's character.

Yes, perhaps I can see why you struggle with the concept of self-respect.

Did you notice that word "esteem"? Ever heard of "self esteem"? How about "self confidence"?

Ever heard of the word "synonym"? If you apply them.... you might just get ..... "Pride"

Or.... you could use a several different definitions for "self respect".... like

"pride and confidence in oneself"

You know the KJV just has a way of saying things sometimes.....

Php 3:3  For we are the circumcision, which worship God in the spirit, and rejoice in Christ Jesus, and have no confidence in the flesh.

Have all the self confidence and respect you can get. Enjoy your delusion.

Context, context. Of course in context Paul is talking here about his good works not being good enough to save him.

You're claims of context aside..... how about dealing with everything I said. I'll deal with "your context claim" after you be a man and not just cherry pick what you would like to deal with.

I'm not sure what I missed of import responding to. Not everything is worth a  response. Please let me know and I will be happy to oblige you.

Are you really that slow? You addressed the verse I quoted from Paul. You only addressed that verse. I did more than just quote the verse. Deal with the entirety of my post. You know... the part about synonyms? and your selective use of a definition?

 

[rsc2a]

Scenario:

I hand PY a gun and tell him that it is okay for him to shoot me. He declines to shoot me and lays the gun on the table.

In this scenario, I chose to "allow" PY to shoot me but he decided not to. The fact that he did not shoot me does not negate the fact that I allowed him to shoot me.

In hindsight, do you think it may have helped PY to comprehend the thought if FSSL has said that Abraham had allowed for his wife to be violated?  ???

Nah.

I know you think you're smart...... but your scenario doesn't fit the grammar used by FSSL.

The way FSSL used allowed..... doesn't permit the use of a negative. At least he's smart enough to know this. Which is why he hasn't responded.

The only way to compare your scenario to what FSSL is to rephrase and say

"someone" allowed subllibrm to be shot with a gun. There is no room in such a statement to address a negative.

That grammar doesn't fit what FSSL wrote. This in spite of the fact that everyone but PY read it that way and FSSL also said that's how it should read. But PY is the smartest, most humble, super duper awesomest (but not proud!) guy who had ever lived and he knows everyone else is wrong including FSSL. After all, FSSL doesn't know what he thinks, is in fact wrong about what he thinks he thinks, and needs our humble poster to tell him what he's thinking.

 

[praise_yeshua]

Scenario:

I hand PY a gun and tell him that it is okay for him to shoot me. He declines to shoot me and lays the gun on the table.

In this scenario, I chose to "allow" PY to shoot me but he decided not to. The fact that he did not shoot me does not negate the fact that I allowed him to shoot me.

In hindsight, do you think it may have helped PY to comprehend the thought if FSSL has said that Abraham had allowed for his wife to be violated?  ???

Nah.

I know you think you're smart...... but your scenario doesn't fit the grammar used by FSSL.

The way FSSL used allowed..... doesn't permit the use of a negative. At least he's smart enough to know this. Which is why he hasn't responded.

The only way to compare your scenario to what FSSL is to rephrase and say

"someone" allowed subllibrm to be shot with a gun. There is no room in such a statement to address a negative.

That grammar doesn't fit what FSSL wrote. This in spite of the fact that everyone but PY read it that way and FSSL also said that's how it should read. But PY is the smartest, most humble, super duper awesomest (but not proud!) guy who had ever lived and he knows everyone else is wrong including FSSL. After all, FSSL doesn't know what he thinks, is in fact wrong about what he thinks he thinks, and needs our humble poster to tell him what he's thinking.

Hey Weasel...... He was the one that said I didn't understand the use of "allowed". He's wrong. He made a mistake.

Your "everyone else".... isn't everyone else. Its you and your sock. That isn't "everyone else". Maybe in your little mind.....