Did it really harm us?

[Binaca Chugger]

I attended HAC during a much more calm and simple time.

You mean like when Bible teachers and staff members you adored as heros were raping and beating little girls?

Whew!  I am sure glad I do not attend now that it is "more complicated."

 

[SwampHag]

ACTUALLY, I knew some of the scandals before I left.

I still was messed up

 

[Walt]

Absolutely, it could have and did harm some.

I also remember sitting in the Dean of Men's office, he was my ministry leader at the time. We were simply shooting the bull, and I mentioned a bible verse I had read that morning in my devotions, Lamentations 5:21 "Turn thou us unto thee, O LORD, and we shall be turned". I casually remarked something to the effect of, "Wouldn't be nice if the Lord would just turn our hearts to him, to take over our life and just live through us".
This is simple, basic Christianity. This is grace. This is the Christ life. And yet as a pastors son and bible college student, the idea was completely foreign to me. I was a defeated, frustrated Christian. What the Dean of Men said to me certainly didn't help, and it revealed he didn't get it either. He told me I was looking for 'a cop out', that I didn't want to discipline myself, that I didn't want to learn self control.

Very telling on him that he believes Christianity is all about self-control rather than Spirit-control.

 

[Walt]

I am not going to try and prove to you the effect his remarks made on me, but I will say you are comparing apples and oranges.

His statement directly informed my view of God, grace and the Christian life and it was egregiously wrong.

All I am saying is that allowing a single statement made by the Dean of Men to impact your life for years seems strange to me.  Obviously it has.

Depends upon how important of a person that was.

 

[Norefund]

It's hard to imagine anyone not hearing any rumors concerning the behavior of Dave Hyles. That all started in the mid 1970's.

 

[LongGone]

We look back now at what happened.  It's easy to point things out now.  It's obvious.  During out time there it was not.
[/quote]

I agree that it is easy to point things out now. My point is that if you are IFB, KJVO, soul-winning and separated that you will feel the basics you got at HAC were good.  If you are no longer IFB, believe KJVO is a myth, soul-winning as used is not a Biblical term and that separation taught at FBCH/HAC is a form of legalism....you are going to view your experience differently. I learned things at HAC that I have used but once again I think the foundation of belief was flawed. I don't feel harmed but it would not be a route I would advise someone to take.

 

[LongGone]

Actually,  my foundation is The Lord Jesus Christ.

I did not mean to imply that your foundation was not Christ.  As a part of that foundation you have embraced being IFB, KJVO, soul-winning and separated. That causes you to see that "harm" done by HAC in a different light than someone who does not embrace being IFB, KJVO, soul-winning and separated.  I am using soul-winning and separated in the FBCH/HAC context.

 

[patriotic]

It's hard to imagine anyone not hearing any rumors concerning the behavior of Dave Hyles. That all started in the mid 1970's.

I have to agree with that.  One of my brothers attended another Bible college and was good friends with a young man who grew up in FBCH.  His mom was on secretarial staff at the church for many years.  This guy was one of DH's good friends through school years.  I believe now he was "sent" to this other college to get away from DH.  justmama knew this guy too. 

 

[Exell]

If you attended HAC, you found nothing that resembles true authentic Christianity. Would you find some good people? Absolutely. True, authentic, biblical Christianity? Absolutely not.

And that is why the works of the flesh have been revealed to run rampant through the place, from its early days until now. And that is why so many have been hurt.
"Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness,
Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies,
Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God"


And led me add, hurt is a relative term. If you are asking me if I got my fe's fe's hurt, then the answer is no. But, was I taught heresy? Was I misled in unscriptural ways that stumped my spiritual growth? Was I taught unbiblical philosophies that frustrated the grace of God in my life? Was I pressured to make decisions that were harmful to my overall well being? (financially, healthwise, etc.)  Absolutely! Do I consider this harmful? Absolutely!

 

[RebeccasRants]

I am going to answer this question for myself personally.  I cannot speak for others who attended HAC.  This was my personal experience.  I went to HAC in the fall of 1982 so convinced it was the greatest college on earth that I hadn't even bothered to pray about God's will because I was so sure HAC was it.  I grew up at the SOTL and loved hearing Dr. Hyles preach the closing sermons at Sword conferences.  I wanted to become a good soul winner.  I was very shy so witnessing was hard for me, and I thought I would learn how to win souls at HAC.  I truly wanted to serve the Lord all my life.  I graduated 3 1/2 years later.  That last semester my younger brother came as a freshman.  At the time he was very star struck with Bro. Hyles.  I told him, "If you become like the mold of this place, I will cry."  My family was a very independent-thinking, guilt pressure-resisting family so some of the "guilt motivation" at HAC was of no affect on us.  It took me awhile to become disillusioned with Bro. Hyles because I had loved his preaching for years before going to HAC. 

So was I harmed?  I did learn how to be a better soul winner though I now reject the 1-2-3 pray this prayer with me approach.  I still go door to door soul winning and seek opportunities to tell the old, old story.  I don't feel like I received an adequate education, but I have learned many things with the Lord's help since leaving that have bettered my Christian teaching and outreach.  I still tend to judge people by their outward appearance, but try to catch myself and stop doing it!  I will NEVER again give a preacher the adoration that only belongs unto my God and will RUN if any preacher demands unquestioning loyalty.

So I would say I was not really harmed.  I owe a lot of that to my parents who have served the Lord faithfully and humbly and taught me that it was a privilege and joy to serve the Lord.  My love for God was not shaken at HAC nor in the years afterwards as more and more truth has come to light.  I would say I was not harmed, but there is a sadness in me when I think of HAC and Dr. Hyles because what I thought I loved did not exist.

 

[brainisengaged]

Since I did not attend HAC, except to take a few of the Free Wives' 'courses', I've not weighed in on this subject.

It is interesting, however. Raider comes across as maddeningly blithe. Sherryh as sweetly balanced. kaba as jaded. Binaca Chugger has an anger that wells up at times with an alarming depth of intensity. Tom B, is soberly balanced...some are sanctimonious, and so on. We all have our own unique perspective based on our own unique experiences.

My own sad realization is that my love and zeal for the Lord Jesus Christ was hijacked and taken in a different direction by 'the system' that is / was in place here at HAC / FBC. I'd been saved all of one year when we moved here as a young married couple. I grew up unchurched. I simply assumed that everything that was done here, everything I observed here, everything I was taught here was THE WAY because these were the people who possessed the real truth. These were the real Christians, this was the holy mecca. I had no grounding instilled in me by godly parents. I had no filter that would cause me to look askance at anything I observed or was told or taught. You might say, "Where was the Holy Spirit dwelling inside of you?" I would answer, "Immersion here caused the squelching and exterminating of the voice of the Holy Spirit inside of me."

It is only since the JS scandal that I realized how wrong it all was. I've been sorting it all out since then.

So did it harm me to be exposed to a man-made system that extremely confusingly intertwined Truth with heresy / fiction / traditions of men? Yes. Yes, it has irreparably harmed me. I begin to believe I will never truly get things sorted out in my mind and my heart. So I look forward to an eternity in Heaven where I will learn the True Truth from The Way, The Truth, and The Light. It's way too hard to see through the glass, darkly down here.

 

[kaba]

I am going to answer this question for myself personally.  I cannot speak for others who attended HAC.  This was my personal experience.  I went to HAC in the fall of 1982 so convinced it was the greatest college on earth that I hadn't even bothered to pray about God's will because I was so sure HAC was it.  I grew up at the SOTL and loved hearing Dr. Hyles preach the closing sermons at Sword conferences.  I wanted to become a good soul winner.  I was very shy so witnessing was hard for me, and I thought I would learn how to win souls at HAC.  I truly wanted to serve the Lord all my life.  I graduated 3 1/2 years later.  That last semester my younger brother came as a freshman.  At the time he was very star struck with Bro. Hyles.  I told him, "If you become like the mold of this place, I will cry."  My family was a very independent-thinking, guilt pressure-resisting family so some of the "guilt motivation" at HAC was of no affect on us.  It took me awhile to become disillusioned with Bro. Hyles because I had loved his preaching for years before going to HAC. 

So was I harmed?  I did learn how to be a better soul winner though I now reject the 1-2-3 pray this prayer with me approach.  I still go door to door soul winning and seek opportunities to tell the old, old story.  I don't feel like I received an adequate education, but I have learned many things with the Lord's help since leaving that have bettered my Christian teaching and outreach.  I still tend to judge people by their outward appearance, but try to catch myself and stop doing it!  I will NEVER again give a preacher the adoration that only belongs unto my God and will RUN if any preacher demands unquestioning loyalty.

So I would say I was not really harmed.  I owe a lot of that to my parents who have served the Lord faithfully and humbly and taught me that it was a privilege and joy to serve the Lord.  My love for God was not shaken at HAC nor in the years afterwards as more and more truth has come to light.  I would say I was not harmed, but there is a sadness in me when I think of HAC and Dr. Hyles because what I thought I loved did not exist.

Very well said, and I can relate to a lot of it.

 

[kaba]

It's hard to imagine anyone not hearing any rumors concerning the behavior of Dave Hyles. That all started in the mid 1970's.

I have to agree with that.  One of my brothers attended another Bible college and was good friends with a young man who grew up in FBCH.  His mom was on secretarial staff at the church for many years.  This guy was one of DH's good friends through school years.  I believe now he was "sent" to this other college to get away from DH.  justmama knew this guy too.

I came from Northern Wisconsin, no other Baptist church within a 50 mile radius. We might have a preacher from Northland come speak, but normally we never had special speakers, colleges or singing groups come to our church. My father and Grandfather both had gotten the SOTL, so we knew of John R Rice. My father was a big JAck Van Epe (sp?), Billy Graham and Jerry Fallwell kind of guy. We did hear JAck Hyles one time and my father loved his preaching-he was hard of hearing and could actually hear him!! So anyways, when Iwentt to college and I had heard something about Dave Hyles, I asked my roommate and she said Shhhhh we dont talk about him here. But I really had no clue who is was or what he had done-I just knew he was Dr. Hyles' son. 

I am very thankful for my parents and my Sunday School teachers for the foundation that they laid in my heart!

 

[prophet]

One of the things I've noticed again and again on the forum is the difference between those who were disappointed by aspects of HAC and those that were disillusioned/disenchanted by aspects of HAC. In many respects the difference was not in what happened at HAC for it happened to both sides. The difference was in the level of enchantment one had towards the place to begin with. If you never got enchanted you didn't get disenchanted. IOW, if you always kept some measure of (from my perspective) sane distance from the rabid emotional sun-rises-and-sets-on-this-place mentality when you saw flaws it did not disillusion you.

...the problem then in relation to the above paragraph, which I obviously believe is accurate analysis, is that HAC was purposely designed to enchant/illusion you. The system of leadership from Bro. Hyles down to your bus captain was designed to hold up a man and a church and a college as the penultimate. Thus, it is no wonder that pound for pound HAC has turned out so many disenchanted people who now scream in frustration about how awful it was. It sought to illusion them and is now reaping what it sowed.

Basically this ∆∆∆∆

 

[RAIDER]

RAIDER,

You are a HACker through and through.  You are a JH apologist.  You still adhere to the same philosophies taught to you by the "late, great, Jack Hyels" and all of his chronies.  You still journey to Mecca - er - Hammond.

It is time to recognize that the system in FBCH / HAC is idolatry, not to mention lasciviousness, pride, anger, refusing the correction of God, blameshifting, manipulation, abuse, et. al.  Does this hurt people?  YES!  YES!  YES!  YES!  Why don't you talk to the girls and boys who were raped by the leadership team at FBCH / HAC if the system was a place that hurt people?  Why don't you talk to the thousands of abuse victims (most of whom you don't know about) of HAC grads if they were hurt?  What if we were to even ignore the abuse victims (because apparently you think rape doesn't really hurt people - you stinkin' moron).  The Hyles dynasty were kings among the IFB world.  Does that make them "good?"  Does their evil outweigh their wickedness?  Does the fact that they were kings make them righteous despite their actions?  I tell you what.  Why not look at the Bible to see what God thinks instead of mandating your opinion be correct for the whole world.  Try reading Kings and Chronicles (They are books in the Old Testament of the Bible - Don't worry, they should be in your KJV, at least they are in mine).  How did God treat the kings of the nation?  Asa restored temple worship, but was rebuked for misappropriation of funds.  Jehoram was killed for his adultery and idolatry.  Amaziah was slain for idolatry.  Uzziah was smitten to death with leprosy for his pride in worship of God.  Get the idea?

Look, you grew up with a good foundation.  You spent a short time at HAC and ignored some of heresy while you grew up.  You left with good memories and shook your head at what you deemed silly.  You were lied to about the abuse and crimes that were taking place.  Rather than accept that such sin was occurring, and recognize the error, you are claiming that such sin is not really relevant and has no impact on people.

God gives us in His inspired transcription of history the account of kings He killed for similar crimes of the Hyles dynasty.  I don't see a need to defend the heretics.

You need to pay attention to the OP before you go off the deep end.  I said this thread was to be viewed from the angle of a college student attending HAC for four years and then leaving.

I am not a JH apologist.  I received good from his preaching and teaching while I was there.  I did not know of any scandals.  This was my experience.  Now that I know more information I have issues.  I did not know the information at the time. 

This is not a thread about all that we now know.  It is a thread about our experience while we were there.  You have a lengthy paragraph about some terrible things.  I knew of none of this while I was at HAC.  Things have now come to light. 

You are a moron if you think I am a Hacker.  You are a bigger moron if you think I journey to Hammond.  I haven't been there for many years. 

You make yourself look stupid when you say,  "Rather than accept that such sin was occurring, and recognize the error, you are claiming that such sin is not really relevant and has no impact on people."  I have said several times that I did not know this sin was occurring while I was at HAC.  I did not say that people were not hurt.  I did not say that sin has no impact on people.

This thread is for people to talk about their years at HAC.  With what you knew during your years there were you harmed.  No, I was not!

 

[RAIDER]

I attended HAC during a much more calm and simple time.

You mean like when Bible teachers and staff members you adored as heros were raping and beating little girls?

Whew!  I am sure glad I do not attend now that it is "more complicated."

None of this was know to me, bonehead!

 

[RAIDER]

I am going to answer this question for myself personally.  I cannot speak for others who attended HAC.  This was my personal experience.  I went to HAC in the fall of 1982 so convinced it was the greatest college on earth that I hadn't even bothered to pray about God's will because I was so sure HAC was it.  I grew up at the SOTL and loved hearing Dr. Hyles preach the closing sermons at Sword conferences.  I wanted to become a good soul winner.  I was very shy so witnessing was hard for me, and I thought I would learn how to win souls at HAC.  I truly wanted to serve the Lord all my life.  I graduated 3 1/2 years later.  That last semester my younger brother came as a freshman.  At the time he was very star struck with Bro. Hyles.  I told him, "If you become like the mold of this place, I will cry."  My family was a very independent-thinking, guilt pressure-resisting family so some of the "guilt motivation" at HAC was of no affect on us.  It took me awhile to become disillusioned with Bro. Hyles because I had loved his preaching for years before going to HAC. 

So was I harmed?  I did learn how to be a better soul winner though I now reject the 1-2-3 pray this prayer with me approach.  I still go door to door soul winning and seek opportunities to tell the old, old story.  I don't feel like I received an adequate education, but I have learned many things with the Lord's help since leaving that have bettered my Christian teaching and outreach.  I still tend to judge people by their outward appearance, but try to catch myself and stop doing it!  I will NEVER again give a preacher the adoration that only belongs unto my God and will RUN if any preacher demands unquestioning loyalty.

So I would say I was not really harmed.  I owe a lot of that to my parents who have served the Lord faithfully and humbly and taught me that it was a privilege and joy to serve the Lord.  My love for God was not shaken at HAC nor in the years afterwards as more and more truth has come to light.  I would say I was not harmed, but there is a sadness in me when I think of HAC and Dr. Hyles because what I thought I loved did not exist.

Thank you.  This is what the OP is requesting - your experience.  Your experience with what you did and didn't know, good and bad.  Some can't seem to figure this out.  Thank you for paying attention to the OP instead of ranting and raving about something totally different.

 

[Exell]

I'm not sure you can separate hindsight from the question, 'Did it harm us'? I would also contend that hindsight is the only perspective that truly answer the question.

 

[RAIDER]

I'm not sure you can separate hindsight from the question, 'Did it harm us'? I would also contend that hindsight is the only perspective that truly answer the question.

This is a good thought.  While what happened hindsight definitely gives a different picture to me, it still didn't change the good I gained from attending.  Now, with that being said, there are some on the FFF that pushed it all aside when the negative came to light. 

I can't say, "Wow!  There were some awful things going on behind the scenes while I was a student.  I learned to love my Bible more while I was at HAC.  Forget that!  I learned to love the less fortunate more while I was at HAC.  Away with that garbage!"  The information that I now know doesn't change the positives that became a part of my life while I was there. 

 

[Tennessean]

RAIDER,

You are a HACker through and through.  You are a JH apologist.  You still adhere to the same philosophies taught to you by the "late, great, Jack Hyels" and all of his chronies.  You still journey to Mecca - er - Hammond.

It is time to recognize that the system in FBCH / HAC is idolatry, not to mention lasciviousness, pride, anger, refusing the correction of God, blameshifting, manipulation, abuse, et. al.  Does this hurt people?  YES!  YES!  YES!  YES!  Why don't you talk to the girls and boys who were raped by the leadership team at FBCH / HAC if the system was a place that hurt people?  Why don't you talk to the thousands of abuse victims (most of whom you don't know about) of HAC grads if they were hurt?  What if we were to even ignore the abuse victims (because apparently you think rape doesn't really hurt people - you stinkin' moron).  The Hyles dynasty were kings among the IFB world.  Does that make them "good?"  Does their evil outweigh their wickedness?  Does the fact that they were kings make them righteous despite their actions?  I tell you what.  Why not look at the Bible to see what God thinks instead of mandating your opinion be correct for the whole world.  Try reading Kings and Chronicles (They are books in the Old Testament of the Bible - Don't worry, they should be in your KJV, at least they are in mine).  How did God treat the kings of the nation?  Asa restored temple worship, but was rebuked for misappropriation of funds.  Jehoram was killed for his adultery and idolatry.  Amaziah was slain for idolatry.  Uzziah was smitten to death with leprosy for his pride in worship of God.  Get the idea?

Look, you grew up with a good foundation.  You spent a short time at HAC and ignored some of heresy while you grew up.  You left with good memories and shook your head at what you deemed silly.  You were lied to about the abuse and crimes that were taking place.  Rather than accept that such sin was occurring, and recognize the error, you are claiming that such sin is not really relevant and has no impact on people.

God gives us in His inspired transcription of history the account of kings He killed for similar crimes of the Hyles dynasty.  I don't see a need to defend the heretics.

You need to pay attention to the OP before you go off the deep end.  I said this thread was to be viewed from the angle of a college student attending HAC for four years and then leaving.

I am not a JH apologist.  I received good from his preaching and teaching while I was there.  I did not know of any scandals.  This was my experience.  Now that I know more information I have issues.  I did not know the information at the time. 

This is not a thread about all that we now know.  It is a thread about our experience while we were there.  You have a lengthy paragraph about some terrible things.  I knew of none of this while I was at HAC.  Things have now come to light. 

You are a moron if you think I am a Hacker.  You are a bigger moron if you think I journey to Hammond.  I haven't been there for many years. 

You make yourself look stupid when you say,  "Rather than accept that such sin was occurring, and recognize the error, you are claiming that such sin is not really relevant and has no impact on people."  I have said several times that I did not know this sin was occurring while I was at HAC.  I did not say that people were not hurt.  I did not say that sin has no impact on people.

This thread is for people to talk about their years at HAC.  With what you knew during your years there were you harmed.  No, I was not!

Is there something here you're upset about?