Did it really harm us?

[Vince Massi]

Hebrews 12:15 contains a salient point: "looking carefully lest anyone fall short of the grace of God; lest any root of bitterness springing up cause trouble, and by this many become defiled;"

 

[RAIDER]

Hebrews 12:15 contains a salient point: "looking carefully lest anyone fall short of the grace of God; lest any root of bitterness springing up cause trouble, and by this many become defiled;"

Yea, BC, in your face! 

 

[Norefund]

Well, alrighty then.

Reading through this topic inspires me to want to say two things:

1. Chill. Really, it is fine to disagree. It is fine to debate. We are crossing the line when we attack each other. Attack the argument...not the person. Please?

2. I still find it hard to believe that anyone, OP included, didn't hear anything about Dave Hyles. Not hearing anything is not the same as dismissing it or not believing as others have posted.

While it seems that BC and myself are hatefully attacking each other we really are not.  Yes, we are hammering away to "prove" our points.  We call each other a few innocent names.  We are heavily debating, but I don't think either one of us are mad at the other.  While I see how an outsider would feel differently about our dialog, it is truly innocent.  I don't agree with that which he is accusing me of, but I think he is handling his posting great.  As I posted earlier, BC and I have had a lot of fun posting with each other on the FFF.  This is just a heated topic and he is a stinkin' Hacker jerk!! 

Agreed. 

I am expressing anger at the idea of giving praise to the leadership or system of HAC and FBCH.  I believe this anger to be against an evil sin that is destroying lives.  JH was a close friend of mine in his lifetime, as were many of the living HAC leaders.  God is sovereign and He brought me through.  Revelations have been made and I will not stand by and be quiet while others laud the praises of the institution that has driven so many away from the True God.  Yes, I am speaking harshly, but that is the only tone a HACker like RAIDER can understand. 

 

[RAIDER]

Well, alrighty then.

Reading through this topic inspires me to want to say two things:

1. Chill. Really, it is fine to disagree. It is fine to debate. We are crossing the line when we attack each other. Attack the argument...not the person. Please?

2. I still find it hard to believe that anyone, OP included, didn't hear anything about Dave Hyles. Not hearing anything is not the same as dismissing it or not believing as others have posted.

While it seems that BC and myself are hatefully attacking each other we really are not.  Yes, we are hammering away to "prove" our points.  We call each other a few innocent names.  We are heavily debating, but I don't think either one of us are mad at the other.  While I see how an outsider would feel differently about our dialog, it is truly innocent.  I don't agree with that which he is accusing me of, but I think he is handling his posting great.  As I posted earlier, BC and I have had a lot of fun posting with each other on the FFF.  This is just a heated topic and he is a stinkin' Hacker jerk!! 

Agreed. 

I am expressing anger at the idea of giving praise to the leadership or system of HAC and FBCH.  I believe this anger to be against an evil sin that is destroying lives.  JH was a close friend of mine in his lifetime, as were many of the living HAC leaders.  God is sovereign and He brought me through.  Revelations have been made and I will not stand by and be quiet while others laud the praises of the institution that has driven so many away from the True God.  Yes, I am speaking harshly, but that is the only tone a HACker like RAIDER can understand. 

Thanks for understanding our Hackerness.

 

[Binaca Chugger]

Hebrews 12:15 contains a salient point: "looking carefully lest anyone fall short of the grace of God; lest any root of bitterness springing up cause trouble, and by this many become defiled;"

yes, because if anyone speaks out against sin, they must be bitter.....

sigh[/]  :

 

[RAIDER]

Hebrews 12:15 contains a salient point: "looking carefully lest anyone fall short of the grace of God; lest any root of bitterness springing up cause trouble, and by this many become defiled;"

yes, because if anyone speaks out against sin, they must be bitter.....

sigh[/]  :

I do believe we have found a common enemy. 

 

[LongGone]

You are putting words in my mouth.  My experience at HAC was not perfect.  I learned things at HAC.  I have never said that "nothing else that happened really matters".  This thread is about each of our times at HAC.  It is not about what I found out later.  It is about my experience when I was there.  The evil does matter.  I knew of none when I was there.  I now have different opinions about some of the people that were in authority.  If this thread was titled "How I feel about HAC now" my thoughts would be different.

Your illustration about an abuse father is not an accurate illustration.  I was not mistreated by HAC and now I'm wanting to look at the good.

I really think you are missing the point. No matter what you mean it does not matter if it is not perceived that way. You missed the whole point of the illustration. You come across as the one saying to the mistreated that your father may have abused you but remember when he took you to the amusement park.

 

[RAIDER]

I really think you are missing the point. No matter what you mean it does not matter if it is not perceived that way. You missed the whole point of the illustration. You come across as the one saying to the mistreated that your father may have abused you but remember when he took you to the amusement park.

No!  No!!  No!!!  I am saying that while at HAC I was not mistreated and I did not know anyone was being mistreated.  Those that were mistreated have a story to tell.  It is the story of their time at HAC.  There is no way that I am telling someone that was mistreated that they should look at the good times.  Where do you get this stuff!

 

[16KJV11]

I really think you are missing the point. No matter what you mean it does not matter if it is not perceived that way. You missed the whole point of the illustration. You come across as the one saying to the mistreated that your father may have abused you but remember when he took you to the amusement park.

No!  No!!  No!!!  I am saying that while at HAC I was not mistreated and I did not know anyone was being mistreated.  Those that were mistreated have a story to tell.  It is the story of their time at HAC.  There is no way that I am telling someone that was mistreated that they should look at the good times.  Where do you get this stuff!

Maybe Longgone is Linda Hyles undercover?

 

[LongGone]

I really think you are missing the point. No matter what you mean it does not matter if it is not perceived that way. You missed the whole point of the illustration. You come across as the one saying to the mistreated that your father may have abused you but remember when he took you to the amusement park.

No!  No!!  No!!!  I am saying that while at HAC I was not mistreated and I did not know anyone was being mistreated.  Those that were mistreated have a story to tell.  It is the story of their time at HAC.  There is no way that I am telling someone that was mistreated that they should look at the good times.  Where do you get this stuff!

I think we are talking past each other. I did not say you were mistreated or you know anyone that was mistreated while at HAC. When someone talks about their experience at HAC in a negative light you have challenged that experience. To me when you do that and talk about your experience it appears that you are telling the victim to focus on the good. This is the reason you were getting called a JH apologist.

It is hard for me to understand the purpose of a thread call "Did it really harm us" if not to put HAC in a better light.  Kinda like asking the abused "Did they really harm you?

 

[RAIDER]

I really think you are missing the point. No matter what you mean it does not matter if it is not perceived that way. You missed the whole point of the illustration. You come across as the one saying to the mistreated that your father may have abused you but remember when he took you to the amusement park.

No!  No!!  No!!!  I am saying that while at HAC I was not mistreated and I did not know anyone was being mistreated.  Those that were mistreated have a story to tell.  It is the story of their time at HAC.  There is no way that I am telling someone that was mistreated that they should look at the good times.  Where do you get this stuff!

Maybe Longgone is Linda Hyles undercover?

He is proving to be just as out in left field. 

 

[LongGone]

Maybe Longgone is Linda Hyles undercover?

I take it that mature conversation is not something you do well.

 

[RAIDER]

I really think you are missing the point. No matter what you mean it does not matter if it is not perceived that way. You missed the whole point of the illustration. You come across as the one saying to the mistreated that your father may have abused you but remember when he took you to the amusement park.

No!  No!!  No!!!  I am saying that while at HAC I was not mistreated and I did not know anyone was being mistreated.  Those that were mistreated have a story to tell.  It is the story of their time at HAC.  There is no way that I am telling someone that was mistreated that they should look at the good times.  Where do you get this stuff!

I think we are talking past each other. I did not say you were mistreated or you know anyone that was mistreated while at HAC. When someone talks about their experience at HAC in a negative light you have challenged that experience. To me when you do that and talk about your experience it appears that you are telling the victim to focus on the good. This is the reason you were getting called a JH apologist.

It is hard for me to understand the purpose of a thread call "Did it really harm us" if not to put HAC in a better light.  Kinda like asking the abused "Did they really harm you?

If someone talks about their experience in a negative light that I don't see I may ask them a question.  You may be able to do this, but can you show me a post where I challenged someone's experience?  Please re-post it.  I need to see exactly what you are talking about.

The thread was intended for posters to look at their time at HAC (not before and not after) to see what they thought during those years.  It was intended for stories about their time there, not stories about other's time there. 

 

[Binaca Chugger]

I really think you are missing the point. No matter what you mean it does not matter if it is not perceived that way. You missed the whole point of the illustration. You come across as the one saying to the mistreated that your father may have abused you but remember when he took you to the amusement park.

No!  No!!  No!!!  I am saying that while at HAC I was not mistreated and I did not know anyone was being mistreated.  Those that were mistreated have a story to tell.  It is the story of their time at HAC.  There is no way that I am telling someone that was mistreated that they should look at the good times.  Where do you get this stuff!

From your posts.

I think that if someone walked into your church and told you they were abused, you would try to care for them.  However, you are wanting to remember the good from rather criminal people.  This is a HACker trademark.  It is part of the culture that you learned while at HAC that harmed you.  When you post that "we" were never really harmed and came away with great truths from the greatest ministry of the 80's, you sound like you are defending the system. 

The analogy is spot on.  You are like the cousin who loves Uncle Joe (or Buck or Suzy) and talks about all the good times to your cousin who is trying to tell you about the abuse.

I maintain that you could not have graduated from HAC without being harmed by the heretical teaching of these men.

 

[16KJV11]

I take it that mature conversation is not something you do well.
[/quote]

A little levity never hurt anyone!  8)

 

[RebeccasRants]

Reading through this topic inspires me to want to say two things:

1. Chill. Really, it is fine to disagree. It is fine to debate. We are crossing the line when we attack each other. Attack the argument...not the person. Please?

2. I still find it hard to believe that anyone, OP included, didn't hear anything about Dave Hyles. Not hearing anything is not the same as dismissing it or not believing as others have posted.

Okay I am going to post my PERSONAL experience while at HAC.  This was my PERSONAL experience.  Got it?  My Dad told me about Dave Hyles' sin during the summer of 84 or 85 can't exactly remember which year.  When I got back to HAC that fall, I didn't hear ANYBODY breathe a word about it.  NOBODY.  NADIE.  NOT A SOUL.  It was weird.  Nobody said a word in the dorms that I ever heard.  My future sister in law was a dorm supe and asked Mrs. Evans about Dave.  Her response?  "Did he preach the truth?"  Very interesting response especially considering what she had to know!!!!

 

[LongGone]

A little levity never hurt anyone!  8)

Don't quit your day job to do comedy

 

[16KJV11]

[quote author=16KJV11 hilink=topic=5564.msg105558#msg105558 date=1424470887]


A little levity never hurt anyone!  8)

No worries mate, no worries.

Don't quit your day job to do comedy
[/quote]

 

[Holy Mole]

I've not read all posts but the greatest damage from HAC isn't the 4 years under the rules that one really had the chance to leave at any time it was what followed. HAC was an incubator and greenhouse for Jack Hyles' ideology. The real damage I found was from those that took many of the things taught and practiced in the bubble as something to be literally copied out in the real ministry.
The manipulation, bullying and the using not only of people but even the scriptures for the promotion of the Preacher's agenda (morality and legality aside)  has been the greatest of detriments.

 

[TidesofTruth]

Two points

1.  Hindsight is never 20/20
2.  History now is less written by the victors and more by the survivors, especially those who have the better social media outlet.


I would say more but I think it best not to.