Did Jesus Visit England?

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abcaines said:
Right. I was just reading up on it. I am familiar with Herbert W Armstrong's heresies; I never heard the terms British or Anglo-Israelism associated with his teaching. It all makes sense now.
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Armstrong didn't call it that. But his 1945 booklet The United States and Great Britain in Prophecy was basically plagiarized from a 1902 book by J. H. Allen, Judah's Sceptre and Joseph's Birthright, which was a key British-Israelite text. Armstrong revived a suborthodox myth that had all but disappeared by the middle of the 20th century.
 
Armstrong didn't call it that. But his 1945 booklet The United States and Great Britain in Prophecy was basically plagiarized from a 1902 book by J. H. Allen, Judah's Sceptre and Joseph's Birthright, which was a key British-Israelite text. Armstrong revived a suborthodox myth that had all but disappeared by the middle of the 20th century.
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Ok. We'll that explains why I'd never heard the term. I know HWA had a whole slew of teachings that were off. One of them I can recall from my BC days came in the form of a commercial on TV where, I suppose, he was promoting a book of his. I don't remember much, I remember his tag line, "Expect a miracle; Make miracles happen!"

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Oops... I guess I dropped that ball... the commercial I cited above wasn't Armstrong as I had long thought but Norman Vincent Peale promoting a book by that name. The info below still holds true.

Even though I was 14 or 15 at the time and clearly not a believer yet, that line seemed a bit presumptuous to me. In looking back, this would also be about the time when I began to understand that salvation was not predicated on my good works outweighing my sinfulness.
 
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Herbert Armstrong was a big promoter (not the originator) of the British-Israelite myth, but it has been officially repudiated by the new president of the Worldwide Church of God, Joseph Tkach:

"When you start carefully reading Anglo-Israelite literature, you begin to notice how it generally depends on folklore, legends, quasi-historical genealogies, and dubious etymologies. None of these sources proves an Israelite origin for the peoples of northwestern Europe. . . . In July 1995, the church announced in the 'Pastor General's Report' that Anglo-Israelism lacked any credible evidence and that the church would no longer teach it. . . . Whether or not we or our members or ministers perceived Anglo-Israelism as essential, once it was dethroned, a major support for many of our distinctive doctrines quickly fell away." (From the book "Transformed by Truth)"

Although British Israelism has been thoroughly debunked, it is still promoted by the Moron radio entertainer Glenn Beck, who says that America is one of the lost 10 tribes.

There is no archaeological evidence for Joseph of Arimathea's alleged visit to England or for any Christian churches in England at that time. If Christ, or Joseph, did actually visit England, they do not appear to have conducted any successful church planting.

As for the King Arthur story, the court historian of King Henry VII (reigned 1485 to 1509), Polydore Vergil, concluded that the whole story was a myth. Henry was enthusiastic about the legend anyway, and named his eldest son Arthur, believing that England would achieve greatness once it was again under the rule of a King Arthur. Unfortunately for England, Arthur died young, and they got stuck with his kid brother Henry VIII instead.
 
illinoisguy said:
Herbert Armstrong was a big promoter (not the originator) of the British-Israelite myth, but it has been officially repudiated by the new president of the Worldwide Church of God, Joseph Tkach:
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The WCG repudiated British-Israelism, true. But the various Armstrongite factions that splintered from the WCG to preserve Armstrong's teachings continue to affirm it--for example, Gerald Flurry and the Philadelphia Church of God.

When Garner Ted Armstrong split from his father, he founded the Church of God International which continued to teach British-Israel doctrine. He wrote his own British-Israel screed, Europe and America in Prophecy, which the Garner Ted Armstrong Evangelistic Association still makes available.

Tkach's organization may have cast off Armstrong's British-Israelism, but the Armstrongite world at large has not.

Although British Israelism has been thoroughly debunked, it is still promoted by the Moron radio entertainer Glenn Beck, who says that America is one of the lost 10 tribes.
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Mormonism is another form of Lost Tribe-ism, to be sure. But their version is that members of the ten tribes emigrated to North America and built up huge, pre-Columbian civilizations here, and were the ancestors of the native Americans. That's a fair bit different from the Anglo-Israel line that the Anglo-Saxons, Celts, and Germanic tribes are descended from them. Which version does Beck believe, specifically?

Numerous groups claim descent from the Lost Ten Tribes: for example, the Pashtuns in Afghanistan and Pakistan, the Bene Ephraim in India, and more recently, the various factions of the Black Hebrew Israelite cult. (You're hard pressed to find someone whose tribe isn't descended from the Israelites!)

Complicating the matter, the Lost Ten Tribes were never really lost, of course.
 
Ransom said:
The WCG repudiated British-Israelism, true. But the various Armstrongite factions that splintered from the WCG to preserve Armstrong's teachings continue to affirm it--for example, Gerald Flurry and the Philadelphia Church of God.

When Garner Ted Armstrong split from his father, he founded the Church of God International which continued to teach British-Israel doctrine. He wrote his own British-Israel screed, Europe and America in Prophecy, which the Garner Ted Armstrong Evangelistic Association still makes available.

Tkach's organization may have cast off Armstrong's British-Israelism, but the Armstrongite world at large has not.



Mormonism is another form of Lost Tribe-ism, to be sure. But their version is that members of the ten tribes emigrated to North America and built up huge, pre-Columbian civilizations here, and were the ancestors of the native Americans. That's a fair bit different from the Anglo-Israel line that the Anglo-Saxons, Celts, and Germanic tribes are descended from them. Which version does Beck believe, specifically?

Numerous groups claim descent from the Lost Ten Tribes: for example, the Pashtuns in Afghanistan and Pakistan, the Bene Ephraim in India, and more recently, the various factions of the Black Hebrew Israelite cult. (You're hard pressed to find someone whose tribe isn't descended from the Israelites!)

Complicating the matter, the Lost Ten Tribes were never really lost, of course.
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there is even a lost tribe of israel myth among the scots and irish.... they claim the celts descended from israel.... :rolleyes:...... as far as i know the only culture who has not claimed to be descended from a lost tribe of israel is the native hawaiians-polynesians...... .. but i wouldn;t bet my inheritance on it.... i only say it because i have never heard anything about it.... ... with my luck it will be in the news tomorrow....:cautious:
 
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This article purports to explain Glenn Beck's views on British Israelism:

www.charismanews.com

Glenn Beck and His 10 Tribes of Israel Theory - Charisma News

There are a lot of theories as to what happened to the 10 lost tribes of Israel—most of them improvable, some of them outright wacky. (Joseph Smith, founder of Mormonism, believed they, along with the apostle John, are floating in space on a piece of Earth that broke off.)Recently, popular radio...
www.charismanews.com www.charismanews.com

"Recently, popular radio host and sometimes Trilateral-Commission-like conspiracy theorist Glenn Beck taught his listeners that the 10 tribes were the founders of the United States—at least, I think that is what he was saying. He presented a history lesson—that had as much congruity as Ahmadinejad’s teachings on the Holocaust—backed up by no sources, no quote from any reputable historian and not even a Wikipedia reference. It simply left me dumbfounded and, truthfully, unable to figure what his point was. . . .
  1. "When the Assyrians were defeated, they, along with the 10 tribes of Israel, fled together. (This is nuts! Beck just explained how ruthless the Assyrians were, but then they flee hand in hand with their buddies, the Israelites?) . . . According to Beck, the Assyrians were meticulous record keepers, but he doesn’t cite any of those records to prove his theory. . . . There are so many biblical inaccuracies in Glenn’s teaching that it is clear he has not studied this issue. It appears he is simply repeating by memory a theory he read in a book. With such a large audience, he was very reckless in handling the Word of God. . . . Beck does get one thing right. At about 6:20 in the clip, he says, 'I am not the guy to go to on [Middle East History].' Sadly, he then went on to teach utter nonsense with an air of authority."
Actually, Beck's British Israelism teachings are totally wacko, but no more so than his garbled, inaccurate presentation on the origins of Mormonism that he presented at Liberty University in 2014, when he urged the Liberty students to be admirers of Beck's sex-pervert god Joseph Smith.

Ransom is correct - while the mainline Worldwide Church of God has repudiated British Israelism, there are dozens of splinter groups left over from Herbert Armstrong's movement that are still pumping out his false propaganda. For instance, the Living Church of God, with headquarters in Charlotte, North Carolina, is still teaching British Israelism: "The Anglo-American people are the possessors of the birthright promises and accompanying blessings of Abraham's descendants through his grandson Jacob."

The LCG puts out a slick glossy magazine called "Tomorrow's World" which in 2015 referred to "The United States of America and other Israelite nations (the United Kingdom, Canada, Australia, New Zealand, South Africa and nations of northwest European descent)." The LCG is anti-Trinitarian and basically they still follow the heresy of the sex-pervert Garner Ted Armstrong who taught that Jesus had to be born again and that no one else has been or should be born again.
 
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Glenn Beck gets it right more often than wrong, but not sure I’d trust him with theological matters.
 
Huk said:
Glenn Beck gets it right more often than wrong, but not sure I’d trust him with theological matters.
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i learned a long time ago not to trust mormons with anything.... .i met too many of them who were well aware that their "church" was built on falsehood and deception.... but who continued to follow it any because of the financial benefits... their family connections... and because of the doors of oportunity being a mormon opened for them in business - careers.. and in some cases even college admissions.. .... .. exactly the same reason members of the masonic lodge remain loyal to their order..... their only interest in people outside the mormon church is the money they can make off them or the ways they use them to their own advantage....
 
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Here is a transcript of Glenn Beck's remarks about the "martyrdom" of Moron founder Joseph Smith, as given at Liberty University on April 25, 2014. "Days before Joseph Smith was martyred he was taken out by the sheriff. They tried to tar and feather him several times. He was taken out by the sheriff and the last time they took him, they said you owe $200. I think $25, $25. He said, 'I don't owe a man anything.' He said, 'No you stole a stove.' One of the most ridiculous charges I have ever heard. At that time he reached into his pocket and pulled out his pocket watch. This is his pocket watch that he pulled out. He gave it to the sheriff and said, 'I owe man nothing.' They let him go and they killed him."

Like other pronouncements by Glenn Beck that I have read and puzzled over, this statement by Beck is incoherent and incomprehensible. The episode of Smith being accused by the sheriff of owing money for a stove took place in Painesville, Ohio on or about July 27, 1837. Smith gave the sheriff his pocket watch "for security" and then went home. If Smith did not owe anything, why did he give up his pocket watch? Beck is confused as to whether Smith was accused of owing $200 or $25 - which is it?

Smith was not killed "days" after the stove and pocket watch episode - he was killed 7 years later (June 27, 1844) in Carthage, Illinois, not over stealing a stove, but over charges of having mobilized a mob that destroyed a printing press in Nauvoo, Illinois that had printed articles exposing Smith as a polygamist. The detailed accounts of Smith's death in the Carthage jail (which I have visited) mention nothing about Smith having a pocket watch. Fawn Brodie in "No Man Knows My History" mentions a pocket watch on page 393 but it belonged to Smith's sidekick John Taylor, not to Smith. How did Glenn Beck, 170 years later, get possession of that watch and how do we know that it really belonged to Smith? Beck appears to be totally befuddled about the origins of his own Moron religion, so I feel no urge to try to sort out his rambling pontifications on British Israelism, politics or any other issue. I guess people listen to him because he is regarded as an amusing "rodeo clown" (his own words) but he does not seem to know how to communicate truth in such a manner as to enable people to figure out what it is that he wants us to believe.
 
Gringo said:
Maybe, but according to the Mormons, He visited what is now New York state between His resurrection and His ascension.
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Yup.
Old Joe claims that Jesus showed up in a White Canoe....so that was our first clue.
😜🤣🪶🦬🤟
 
aleshanee said:
if most people understood what mormons actually believe... and how they arrived at those beliefs.. they would not even consider them part of christendom..... which they are not - by the way... .. ...mormonism is a pagan cult started by a scammer who copied all the structure and organizational documentation of the masonic lodge and turned it into his own religion.... all because the local masonic lodge his brother was a member of denied him membership... (which they did due to him already being a well known scammer)

there is an official mantra in mormon teachings that says.... "as man is - God once was - as God is - man may become"..... which sounds closer to something out of an ancient aliens episode than anything from the bible..... and blasphemys like that exist all through mormon writings and teachings.....
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Taking advantage of Natives is a good way For Satan to toss a stumbling block against Christianity, before our People....which was precisely the result.
😓
 
abcaines said:
Right. I was just reading up on it. I am familiar with Herbert W Armstrong's heresies; I never heard the terms British or Anglo-Israelism associated with his teaching. It all makes sense now.
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The real kicker is that the Royals may be Egyptian....
 
Since my post was deleted for "implied swearing", can someone p.m. me with a copy of what I said?
I have no idea what was deleted, and had no intention of promising anyone anything.
I have no idea how this works, so I am sure I am posting this in the wrong place, but this is the thread I was reprimanded for.
I apologize for any problems I may have caused, as this was never my intention.
I hope I typo'ed.
Thanks.
 
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