Do you agree that this?????

[Bruh]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GW8IIpYLSmM

Minute 35 till 40:31

After he gives him the plan of salvation he then leads him in prayer to receive Jesus into his life.  He ask him to repeat after him. 

Do you agree with this? And is this how you do it?

 

[Bruh]

I was taught to do it this way but have since learned IMO, a more biblical way. 

I agree with everything I saw except for the part where he gets to the part of asking him to pray. 

After many years of doing it this way I was with a pastor and he did it like this:

When he got to the part where FBCH people would ask him to pray what this pastor friend of mine did was...........STOP..............LOOK AT THE MAN....................AND WAIT TO SEE THE MANS RESPONSE. 

Wilkerson did ask if the man had any questions......he didn't go straight into the prayer but IMO, stopping and waiting for the mans response is IMO is much more wise.  Because who at that point will say no? to me that is still putting some pressure on the man to pray and not giving him the chance to respond as he will, but in a sense giving him the answer, and not allowing him to come up with it on his own. 

 

[Walt]

Minute 35 till 40:31

After he gives him the plan of salvation he then leads him in prayer to receive Jesus into his life.  He ask him to repeat after him. 

Do you agree with this? And is this how you do it?

I backed up to about 30:00 and went forward, so I'm still missing some of the previous stuff.

There is too much manipulation here, instead of relying on the Holy Spirit to convict the sinner of sin.

It sounds like being a sinner is trivialized or minimized.  The fact that we are a sinner is much more that merely "no one's perfect".

I like that he says you must use discernment on questions.

There has never been any Biblical example of a believer having the lost man "repeat after me". The prayers of the sinner to the Savior are as varied as the people themselves.

Not sure about the rush to give assurance, either.

 

[Bruh]

Minute 35 till 40:31

After he gives him the plan of salvation he then leads him in prayer to receive Jesus into his life.  He ask him to repeat after him. 

Do you agree with this? And is this how you do it?

I backed up to about 30:00 and went forward, so I'm still missing some of the previous stuff.

There is too much manipulation here, instead of relying on the Holy Spirit to convict the sinner of sin.

It sounds like being a sinner is trivialized or minimized.  The fact that we are a sinner is much more that merely "no one's perfect".

I like that he says you must you discernment on questions.

There has never been any Biblical example of a believer having the lost man "repeat after me". The prayers of the sinner to the Savior are as varied as the people themselves.

Not sure about the rush to give assurance, either.

I agree, somewhere in my presentation I usually say something like, if you cannot see yourself as deserving to go to hell because of your sin then you can not go to heaven.

 

[Smellin Coffee]

I agree, somewhere in my presentation...

I don't believe Jesus had a sales pitch.

 

[patriotic]

I agree, somewhere in my presentation...

I don't believe Jesus had a sales pitch.

He didn't need one.
He IS God.

 

[Bruh]

I agree, somewhere in my presentation...

I don't believe Jesus had a sales pitch.

The only thing you have is a clip, if you read my entire post you would see that I'm hardly "selling" anything.

A presentation is the process of presenting a topic to an audience. It is typically a demonstration, lecture, or speech meant to inform, persuade, or build good will.

 

[Smellin Coffee]

I agree, somewhere in my presentation...

I don't believe Jesus had a sales pitch.

He didn't need one.
He IS God.

And I believe God can save without a sales pitch.

 

[patriotic]

I agree, somewhere in my presentation...

I don't believe Jesus had a sales pitch.

He didn't need one.
He IS God.

And I believe God can save without a sales pitch.

He can, and He does.

What is a "sales pitch" to one is the introduction to God's salvation  to another.
Since no sale is being made other than redemption through the precious blood of Jesus, is any mere mortal man qualified to call another's work for Christ a sales pitch?

The answer is NO.

I have been what some may call a soul  winner for many years. Never have I tried to sell Christ or His salvation. Rather, I am merely  a mouthpiece, and my Saviour ALLOWS me that privilege as a child of his.

God and only God can and does save.  But, as His child I am privileged  to tell others that He died for all. That in itself is "enticing". Call it a sales pitch, if you want. You don't know the hearts of those  who "go soul winning".  I "GET" to do it as a special  privilege of being His child. I don't  just "go soul winning"; I try to "soul win as I go".

This street called  "Judge not" is a two-way street.

 

[sword]

I agree, somewhere in my presentation...

I don't believe Jesus had a sales pitch.

No, but he did present (presentation) the gospel in interesting ways like a salesman might.

For example when he spoke to the women at the well in John 4. Also look at Matt. 4 & Mark 1? How would you describe his method in presenting the gospel. Not the way I would have done it but it must have been perfect because it was Jesus.

He also said he must be about his fathers business.

 

[Smellin Coffee]

I agree, somewhere in my presentation...

I don't believe Jesus had a sales pitch.

No, but he did present (presentation) the gospel in interesting ways like a salesman might.

For example when he spoke to the women at the well in John 4. Also look at Matt. 4 & Mark 1? How would you describe his method in presenting the gospel. Not the way I would have done it but it must have been perfect because it was Jesus.

Correct. But it wasn't a canned spiel but rather personalized to the heart of the individual.

He also said he must be about his fathers business.

I didn't realize God was incorporated.

 

[Smellin Coffee]

I agree, somewhere in my presentation...

I don't believe Jesus had a sales pitch.

He didn't need one.
He IS God.

And I believe God can save without a sales pitch.

He can, and He does.

What is a "sales pitch" to one is the introduction to God's salvation  to another.
Since no sale is being made other than redemption through the precious blood of Jesus, is any mere mortal man qualified to call another's work for Christ a sales pitch?

The answer is NO.

I have been what some may call a soul  winner for many years. Never have I tried to sell Christ or His salvation. Rather, I am merely  a mouthpiece, and my Saviour ALLOWS me that privilege as a child of his.

God and only God can and does save.  But, as His child I am privileged  to tell others that He died for all. That in itself is "enticing". Call it a sales pitch, if you want. You don't know the hearts of those  who "go soul winning".  I "GET" to do it as a special  privilege of being His child. I don't  just "go soul winning"; I try to "soul win as I go".

This street called  "Judge not" is a two-way street.

That's not the point I am arguing. God DOES use different means at His disposal, including spiels.

Last night, my wife and I has a terrific conversation with a couple of UNCC students, one grew up Irish Catholic and the other Hindu though he now professes agnosticism. We invited them over to our house for supper and we talked openly about faith. The agnostic is Indian (Middle-Eastern) and might be the smartest person I have ever met. He has read the Bible through on two occasions (I've no reason to doubt him) and he told me the story of being approached in the Student Union to take a survey. First question was about his spiritual background and his belief system. Second question went immediately to "What will you do with Jesus Christ?" No conversation, no tweaking of "the spiel", and when he asked questions about certain things in the Bible, the inquisitor kept steering away from the questions to keep to his 'spiel'.

Our agnostic friend asked us if doing this rather than addressing people's questions was a part of Christianity and were we required to make the 'sale pitch' (as he called it) to 'appease our god' (his term). My wife and I were able to share with him (and his friend) about what faith in Christ is about. He said he could never see the logic in it and we talked about faith vs. logic and even how faith is based in logic. We talked about an hour about spiritual matters (including Jesus' death and resurrection) and he went home last night with some food for thought. Unlike the 'census taker' who was trying his 'sales pitch', we were able to break the stereotype and have a sincere, open discussion about faith in Christ.

I hope you get my drift that I wasn't knocking how God operates, but rather how when we rely on presentation, it can become a rote ritual, potentially recognized by others as a 'sales pitch' which can actually turn them away. It is easy for us to rely on method rather than presenting Jesus and letting God do the work. That is all I was trying to point to.

In essence, does our gospel message flow from our heart or from a script?

 

[Fresh Air]

I think leading someone in a prayer after presenting the Gospel can be handled well or handled badly. Just because some have handled it badly doesn't mean it is a bad idea, let alone an unscriptural concept. It just needs to be done carefully after a painstakingly thorough presentation of the Gospel.

 

[RAIDER]

Our agnostic friend asked us if doing this rather than addressing people's questions was a part of Christianity and were we required to make the 'sale pitch' (as he called it) to 'appease our god' (his term). My wife and I were able to share with him (and his friend) about what faith in Christ is about. He said he could never see the logic in it and we talked about faith vs. logic and even how faith is based in logic. We talked about an hour about spiritual matters (including Jesus' death and resurrection) and he went home last night with some food for thought. Unlike the 'census taker' who was trying his 'sales pitch', we were able to break the stereotype and have a sincere, open discussion about faith in Christ.

Did you use Paul's writings to show him the way? 

 

[sword]

I agree, somewhere in my presentation...

I don't believe Jesus had a sales pitch.

He didn't need one.
He IS God.

And I believe God can save without a sales pitch.

He can, and He does.

What is a "sales pitch" to one is the introduction to God's salvation  to another.
Since no sale is being made other than redemption through the precious blood of Jesus, is any mere mortal man qualified to call another's work for Christ a sales pitch?

The answer is NO.

I have been what some may call a soul  winner for many years. Never have I tried to sell Christ or His salvation. Rather, I am merely  a mouthpiece, and my Saviour ALLOWS me that privilege as a child of his.

God and only God can and does save.  But, as His child I am privileged  to tell others that He died for all. That in itself is "enticing". Call it a sales pitch, if you want. You don't know the hearts of those  who "go soul winning".  I "GET" to do it as a special  privilege of being His child. I don't  just "go soul winning"; I try to "soul win as I go".

This street called  "Judge not" is a two-way street.

That's not the point I am arguing. God DOES use different means at His disposal, including spiels.

Last night, my wife and I has a terrific conversation with a couple of UNCC students, one grew up Irish Catholic and the other Hindu though he now professes agnosticism. We invited them over to our house for supper and we talked openly about faith. The agnostic is Indian (Middle-Eastern) and might be the smartest person I have ever met. He has read the Bible through on two occasions (I've no reason to doubt him) and he told me the story of being approached in the Student Union to take a survey. First question was about his spiritual background and his belief system. Second question went immediately to "What will you do with Jesus Christ?" No conversation, no tweaking of "the spiel", and when he asked questions about certain things in the Bible, the inquisitor kept steering away from the questions to keep to his 'spiel'.
Our agnostic friend asked us if doing this rather than addressing people's questions was a part of Christianity and were we required to make the 'sale pitch' (as he called it) to 'appease our god' (his term). My wife and I were able to share with him (and his friend) about what faith in Christ is about. He said he could never see the logic in it and we talked about faith vs. logic and even how faith is based in logic. We talked about an hour about spiritual matters (including Jesus' death and resurrection) and he went home last night with some food for thought. Unlike the 'census taker' who was trying his 'sales pitch', we were able to break the stereotype and have a sincere, open discussion about faith in Christ.
I hope you get my drift that I wasn't knocking how God operates, but rather how when we rely on presentation, it can become a rote ritual, potentially recognized by others as a 'sales pitch' which can actually turn them away. It is easy for us to rely on method rather than presenting Jesus and letting God do the work. That is all I was trying to point to.
In essence, does our gospel message flow from our heart or from a script?

Based on the above statements I think we are in complete agreement.

I once met a man who said it took him a year to fully process what he had been told, by a good christian at work, about Salvation. He came from a family who for generations had made fun of religion. He watched his coworker and asked questions for many months before he was ready to believe and accept Jesus. The 1,2,3 plan clearly would not have worked for him.

I also have great concern for the lack of followup with new converts. When a baby is born it take many months (years) until they become mature enough to take care of themselves. The great commission involves a lot more than a quick sales pitch.

 

[Smellin Coffee]

Our agnostic friend asked us if doing this rather than addressing people's questions was a part of Christianity and were we required to make the 'sale pitch' (as he called it) to 'appease our god' (his term). My wife and I were able to share with him (and his friend) about what faith in Christ is about. He said he could never see the logic in it and we talked about faith vs. logic and even how faith is based in logic. We talked about an hour about spiritual matters (including Jesus' death and resurrection) and he went home last night with some food for thought. Unlike the 'census taker' who was trying his 'sales pitch', we were able to break the stereotype and have a sincere, open discussion about faith in Christ.

Did you use Paul's writings to show him the way? 

Actually, no. Pointed to Jesus and His teachings, not Paul.

 

[RAIDER]

Our agnostic friend asked us if doing this rather than addressing people's questions was a part of Christianity and were we required to make the 'sale pitch' (as he called it) to 'appease our god' (his term). My wife and I were able to share with him (and his friend) about what faith in Christ is about. He said he could never see the logic in it and we talked about faith vs. logic and even how faith is based in logic. We talked about an hour about spiritual matters (including Jesus' death and resurrection) and he went home last night with some food for thought. Unlike the 'census taker' who was trying his 'sales pitch', we were able to break the stereotype and have a sincere, open discussion about faith in Christ.

Did you use Paul's writings to show him the way? 

Actually, no. Pointed to Jesus and His teachings, not Paul.

But without Paul's gospel we don't have a salvation of grace. 

 

[Smellin Coffee]

Our agnostic friend asked us if doing this rather than addressing people's questions was a part of Christianity and were we required to make the 'sale pitch' (as he called it) to 'appease our god' (his term). My wife and I were able to share with him (and his friend) about what faith in Christ is about. He said he could never see the logic in it and we talked about faith vs. logic and even how faith is based in logic. We talked about an hour about spiritual matters (including Jesus' death and resurrection) and he went home last night with some food for thought. Unlike the 'census taker' who was trying his 'sales pitch', we were able to break the stereotype and have a sincere, open discussion about faith in Christ.

Did you use Paul's writings to show him the way? 

Actually, no. Pointed to Jesus and His teachings, not Paul.

But without Paul's gospel we don't have a salvation of grace. 

Hence, my problem with Paul. Believing such means Jesus' gospel is insufficient.

 

[RAIDER]

Our agnostic friend asked us if doing this rather than addressing people's questions was a part of Christianity and were we required to make the 'sale pitch' (as he called it) to 'appease our god' (his term). My wife and I were able to share with him (and his friend) about what faith in Christ is about. He said he could never see the logic in it and we talked about faith vs. logic and even how faith is based in logic. We talked about an hour about spiritual matters (including Jesus' death and resurrection) and he went home last night with some food for thought. Unlike the 'census taker' who was trying his 'sales pitch', we were able to break the stereotype and have a sincere, open discussion about faith in Christ.

Did you use Paul's writings to show him the way? 

Actually, no. Pointed to Jesus and His teachings, not Paul.

But without Paul's gospel we don't have a salvation of grace. 

Hence, my problem with Paul. Believing such means Jesus' gospel is insufficient.

Gospel of the Kingdom - rejected.  Gospel of Grace - accepted. 

 

[Smellin Coffee]

Our agnostic friend asked us if doing this rather than addressing people's questions was a part of Christianity and were we required to make the 'sale pitch' (as he called it) to 'appease our god' (his term). My wife and I were able to share with him (and his friend) about what faith in Christ is about. He said he could never see the logic in it and we talked about faith vs. logic and even how faith is based in logic. We talked about an hour about spiritual matters (including Jesus' death and resurrection) and he went home last night with some food for thought. Unlike the 'census taker' who was trying his 'sales pitch', we were able to break the stereotype and have a sincere, open discussion about faith in Christ.

Did you use Paul's writings to show him the way? 

Actually, no. Pointed to Jesus and His teachings, not Paul.

But without Paul's gospel we don't have a salvation of grace. 

Hence, my problem with Paul. Believing such means Jesus' gospel is insufficient.

Gospel of the Kingdom - rejected.  Gospel of Grace - accepted. 

Christ's command was to follow Him and His teachings. Purposely rejecting His gospel in favor of another is a dangerous endeavor.