Duck Dynasty Wine

[Tim]

Calling a church a corporation is taking something away from it.  The church is a body of believers that gather together to reach others for Christ but also to learn more from God's word. Sometimes you make it seem like the church is evil, because it takes money to run. And I think that is wrong.

Or perhaps our churches really don't make up THE church as Christ Himself organized it.

I would LOVE to experience/participate in genuine corporate worship ...

 

[kaba]

Calling a church a corporation is taking something away from it.  The church is a body of believers that gather together to reach others for Christ but also to learn more from God's word. Sometimes you make it seem like the church is evil, because it takes money to run. And I think that is wrong.

Or perhaps our churches really don't make up THE church as Christ Himself organized it.

Why are you so quick to be judgemental about churches?

 

[Tim]

Calling a church a corporation is taking something away from it.  The church is a body of believers that gather together to reach others for Christ but also to learn more from God's word. Sometimes you make it seem like the church is evil, because it takes money to run. And I think that is wrong.

Or perhaps our churches really don't make up THE church as Christ Himself organized it.

Why are you so quick to be judgemental about churches?

Do you view Sunday Morning worship as a part of the heavenly throng that even now is worshiping before the throne of God?

 

[Smellin Coffee]

Calling a church a corporation is taking something away from it.  The church is a body of believers that gather together to reach others for Christ but also to learn more from God's word. Sometimes you make it seem like the church is evil, because it takes money to run. And I think that is wrong.

Or perhaps our churches really don't make up THE church as Christ Himself organized it.

http://waorganicchurchnetwork.org/what_is_organic_church

I would LOVE to experience/participate in genuine corporate worship ...

 

[Tim]

Calling a church a corporation is taking something away from it.  The church is a body of believers that gather together to reach others for Christ but also to learn more from God's word. Sometimes you make it seem like the church is evil, because it takes money to run. And I think that is wrong.

Or perhaps our churches really don't make up THE church as Christ Himself organized it.

http://waorganicchurchnetwork.org/what_is_organic_church

I would LOVE to experience/participate in genuine corporate worship ...

AMEN! "Churches are simply about relationships: with God, the family of God, and those who do not yet know God."

Today it seems like a show/obligation - even among the best of Churches.

 

[Smellin Coffee]

Calling a church a corporation is taking something away from it.  The church is a body of believers that gather together to reach others for Christ but also to learn more from God's word. Sometimes you make it seem like the church is evil, because it takes money to run. And I think that is wrong.

Or perhaps our churches really don't make up THE church as Christ Himself organized it.

Why are you so quick to be judgemental about churches?

Who's judging it? I'm just stating the fact that 99% of the churches in this country are mini-corporations. That doesn't mean all are "bad" but it does mean they are not set up as Christ set up His church in the Gospels.

Jesus rode donkeys and I don't judge people who ride in cars. But then again, Jesus didn't introduce means of transportation to us whereas He did introduce us to the church. If Jesus organized a church a particular way, why would we seek to organize it differently?

 

[kaba]

Saying the church is a corporation is like saying it is ruthless.  I attend an IFB church and I believe our church is run on Bibical standards.

 

[OZZY]

Calling a church a corporation is taking something away from it.  The church is a body of believers that gather together to reach others for Christ but also to learn more from God's word. Sometimes you make it seem like the church is evil, because it takes money to run. And I think that is wrong.

Or perhaps our churches really don't make up THE church as Christ Himself organized it.

Christ organized the LOCAL church. THE church you speak of is a Catholic making

 

[Tim]

Saying the church is a corporation is like saying it is ruthless.  I attend an IFB church and I believe our church is run on Bibical standards.

Where are the Biblical Standards located regarding order of service? Fancy wood pulpit? Choir that anyone with a voice MUST join? 60 minute sermon tops? Tithe teachings? Fancy building? Fancy Bulletins? Suit and Ties? Disrespect for other similar faiths? 3x a week services? Invitation? Children should be separated from the adults during church services? KJV Only? Singing hymns only? Clapping for a special music number? One Pastor? Church Debt? Church Membership? 501c3? Youth Groups? Being IFB?

I attend Church to worship my Lord and Jesus Christ, to meet with fellow believers, to grow and learn more about my God .... and I trust that the local Church I attend is where we can gather around the throne of God (best I can anyway) together and proclaim "Holy, holy, holy is the LORD Almighty; the whole earth is full of his glory!"

Sadly, I believe we miss the mark many times regarding true worship & fellowship. I find so much of modern "Church" gets in the way of my worship. For me it seems like Church is more of a social club many times.

This is why it is easy to just leave a Church and find a new one when something upsets us. How could we ever leave something pure and true? Leaving a Church could be like leaving Jesus Christ ... but, sadly, many leave and find a new Church that fits their comfort zone.

I don't have all the answers, and I don't want to come across as anti-Church - but, honestly, can you list each thing your Church does and say "our church is run on Bibical standards"? I am sure God gives us freedom to be unique and apply organization to our gatherings - but so much of what I listed above is militantly applied at Church. Is any of it Biblical? Ask yourself this, "Are other Churches that operate differently anti-Biblical?"

 

[kaba]

Saying the church is a corporation is like saying it is ruthless.  I attend an IFB church and I believe our church is run on Bibical standards.

Where are the Biblical Standards located regarding order of service? Fancy wood pulpit? Choir that anyone with a voice MUST join? 60 minute sermon tops? Tithe teachings? Fancy building? Fancy Bulletins? Suit and Ties? Disrespect for other similar faiths? 3x a week services? Invitation? Children should be separated from the adults during church services? KJV Only? Singing hymns only? Clapping for a special music number? One Pastor? Church Debt? Church Membership? 501c3? Youth Groups? Being IFB?

I attend Church to worship my Lord and Jesus Christ, to meet with fellow believers, to grow and learn more about my God .... and I trust that the local Church I attend is where we can gather around the throne of God (best I can anyway) together and proclaim "Holy, holy, holy is the LORD Almighty; the whole earth is full of his glory!"

Sadly, I believe we miss the mark many times regarding true worship & fellowship. I find so much of modern "Church" gets in the way of my worship. For me it seems like Church is more of a social club many times.

This is why it is easy to just leave a Church and find a new one when something upsets us. How could we ever leave something pure and true? Leaving a Church could be like leaving Jesus Christ ... but, sadly, many leave and find a new Church that fits their comfort zone.

I don't have all the answers, and I don't want to come across as anti-Church - but, honestly, can you list each thing your Church does and say "our church is run on Bibical standards"? I am sure God gives us freedom to be unique and apply organization to our gatherings - but so much of what I listed above is militantly applied at Church. Is any of it Biblical? Ask yourself this, "Are other Churches that operate differently anti-Biblical?"

You are saying any other church that operates differently than yours is anti-Biblical! I really dont care how other churches run their services. I like how ours does that is why I attend. I am not out to judge someone and tell them they are wrong just because they do it differently than I do, or to call them ungodly or unbiblical.  I get tired of people that were involved in the IFB church, was very much in the man worship, thought their shoes needed to be kissed finally saw the light left the IFB style of church and believing and now they are free! But quick to judge, and like to tell stories how all IFB churches do it this way. Just go to church. serve the Lord the way he speaks to your heart and quit judging others!

 

[Smellin Coffee]

Saying the church is a corporation is like saying it is ruthless.  I attend an IFB church and I believe our church is run on Bibical standards.

Not saying at all that any church at all is ruthless, though I don't doubt some exist somewhere. But as an organized entity in this country as it is, it IS a corporation. People are employed by it. There is ownership of property and goods. There is registration with the IRS in some form or other. There is the collection of money from its assembly in order to keep in existence.

Not saying at all that it is bad, but it IS an organization.

I believe Jesus had more in mind of an organism than an organization. That is not to say there isn't any structure at all, but I don't think our worship venues reflect Jesus' original ideals concerning such.

 

[Tim]

Saying the church is a corporation is like saying it is ruthless.  I attend an IFB church and I believe our church is run on Bibical standards.

Where are the Biblical Standards located regarding order of service? Fancy wood pulpit? Choir that anyone with a voice MUST join? 60 minute sermon tops? Tithe teachings? Fancy building? Fancy Bulletins? Suit and Ties? Disrespect for other similar faiths? 3x a week services? Invitation? Children should be separated from the adults during church services? KJV Only? Singing hymns only? Clapping for a special music number? One Pastor? Church Debt? Church Membership? 501c3? Youth Groups? Being IFB?

I attend Church to worship my Lord and Jesus Christ, to meet with fellow believers, to grow and learn more about my God .... and I trust that the local Church I attend is where we can gather around the throne of God (best I can anyway) together and proclaim "Holy, holy, holy is the LORD Almighty; the whole earth is full of his glory!"

Sadly, I believe we miss the mark many times regarding true worship & fellowship. I find so much of modern "Church" gets in the way of my worship. For me it seems like Church is more of a social club many times.

This is why it is easy to just leave a Church and find a new one when something upsets us. How could we ever leave something pure and true? Leaving a Church could be like leaving Jesus Christ ... but, sadly, many leave and find a new Church that fits their comfort zone.

I don't have all the answers, and I don't want to come across as anti-Church - but, honestly, can you list each thing your Church does and say "our church is run on Bibical standards"? I am sure God gives us freedom to be unique and apply organization to our gatherings - but so much of what I listed above is militantly applied at Church. Is any of it Biblical? Ask yourself this, "Are other Churches that operate differently anti-Biblical?"

You are saying any other church that operates differently than yours is anti-Biblical! I really dont care how other churches run their services. I like how ours does that is why I attend. I am not out to judge someone and tell them they are wrong just because they do it differently than I do, or to call them ungodly or unbiblical.  I get tired of people that were involved in the IFB church, was very much in the man worship, thought their shoes needed to be kissed finally saw the light left the IFB style of church and believing and now they are free! But quick to judge, and like to tell stories how all IFB churches do it this way. Just go to church. serve the Lord the way he speaks to your heart and quit judging others!

Nothing wrong with strong convictions. But, one should be prepared to defend them when challenged.

 

[Tarheel Baptist]

My church is not a corporation. I attend a large church, it needs a few Pastors to run smoothly. I enjoy coming to church knowing the electric has been paid, the a/c is on (dont need heat) I will have a bulletin in my hand to let me know what to expect.

I would think your church IS a corporation. If nobody ever brought a dime into the weekly assemblies would it survive in its existing format? If not, it is a corporation. Does it keep financial record of giving (even legitimately) and give you a giving statement at the end of the year for tax purposes? If so, it is a corporation. Does it have a person or group of people making the majority of operational decisions? If so, it is a corporation. Does it own its own property? If so, it is a corporation.

Perhaps it doesn't have a corporate "feel" to it which is fine but that does not negate the fact it is a corporation.

What a crock...and I say that in all sincerity! 

 

[rsc2a]

[quote author=Smellin Coffee]I would think your church IS a corporation. If nobody ever brought a dime into the weekly assemblies would it survive in its existing format? If not, it is a corporation. Does it keep financial record of giving (even legitimately) and give you a giving statement at the end of the year for tax purposes? If so, it is a corporation. Does it have a person or group of people making the majority of operational decisions? If so, it is a corporation. Does it own its own property? If so, it is a corporation.

Perhaps it doesn't have a corporate "feel" to it which is fine but that does not negate the fact it is a corporation.[/quote]

I guess, based on this criteria, my household is a corporation...

 

[The Rogue Tomato]

Corporation (definition)

A company or group of people authorized to act as a single entity (legally a person) and recognized as such in law.

Wikipedia:

A corporation is a separate legal entity that has been incorporated through a legislative or registration process established through legislation. Incorporated entities have legal rights and liabilities that are distinct from their employees and shareholders, and may conduct business as either a profit-seeking business or not for profit business.

 

[kaba]

Saying the church is a corporation is like saying it is ruthless.  I attend an IFB church and I believe our church is run on Bibical standards.

Where are the Biblical Standards located regarding order of service? Fancy wood pulpit? Choir that anyone with a voice MUST join? 60 minute sermon tops? Tithe teachings? Fancy building? Fancy Bulletins? Suit and Ties? Disrespect for other similar faiths? 3x a week services? Invitation? Children should be separated from the adults during church services? KJV Only? Singing hymns only? Clapping for a special music number? One Pastor? Church Debt? Church Membership? 501c3? Youth Groups? Being IFB?

I attend Church to worship my Lord and Jesus Christ, to meet with fellow believers, to grow and learn more about my God .... and I trust that the local Church I attend is where we can gather around the throne of God (best I can anyway) together and proclaim "Holy, holy, holy is the LORD Almighty; the whole earth is full of his glory!"

Sadly, I believe we miss the mark many times regarding true worship & fellowship. I find so much of modern "Church" gets in the way of my worship. For me it seems like Church is more of a social club many times.

This is why it is easy to just leave a Church and find a new one when something upsets us. How could we ever leave something pure and true? Leaving a Church could be like leaving Jesus Christ ... but, sadly, many leave and find a new Church that fits their comfort zone.

I don't have all the answers, and I don't want to come across as anti-Church - but, honestly, can you list each thing your Church does and say "our church is run on Bibical standards"? I am sure God gives us freedom to be unique and apply organization to our gatherings - but so much of what I listed above is militantly applied at Church. Is any of it Biblical? Ask yourself this, "Are other Churches that operate differently anti-Biblical?"

You are saying any other church that operates differently than yours is anti-Biblical! I really dont care how other churches run their services. I like how ours does that is why I attend. I am not out to judge someone and tell them they are wrong just because they do it differently than I do, or to call them ungodly or unbiblical.  I get tired of people that were involved in the IFB church, was very much in the man worship, thought their shoes needed to be kissed finally saw the light left the IFB style of church and believing and now they are free! But quick to judge, and like to tell stories how all IFB churches do it this way. Just go to church. serve the Lord the way he speaks to your heart and quit judging others!

Nothing wrong with strong convictions. But, one should be prepared to defend them when challenged.

So a conviction is having a structured church service, "fancy" building, bulletins, wearing suits and ties, invitation, separating church services, etc?  I can defend why I like them, but they are not my convictions.