Fallen Pastors

Ransom said:
What if they have blown it so bad that they are no longer scripturally qualified for the office of elder? God will not lead a man to do what God has said he may not do.
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Well you're right the qualifications of an elder or leader is to be blameless and to have a good report with those who are outside, that is towards non Christians. Should consider thought does that mean for the rest of his life 30 years later or however many of years one couldn't say he didn't or couldn't reestablished respect once again. I might agree with you it'd depend on what they did.

But they can be restored with God right away and he can use them in the ministry of helps and know he's advancing the Kingdom of God. That's our place to work with people to help them to be able to do that. Our wounded soldiers we don't throw into a ditch even if they shot themselves in the foot.

And I don't look upon working in the ministry of helps as something inferior anyway.
Ransom said:
I remain rightly skeptical of the "restoration" of a man who a) seems to show no evidence of genuine repentance; ...
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Nothing wrong with being skeptical about one.....lean towards seeking to believe the best of all though hoping they come out of their weakness and PRAY that they do. With any fallen brethren God wants to work through us to give them peace and hope.

 
Rockson said:
Should consider thought does that mean for the rest of his life 30 years later or however many of years one couldn't say he didn't or couldn't reestablished respect once again.
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Well, since we've been talking about Dave Hyles on this thread since about Post #47, you tell me: 30 years later, does he have a "good report" within and without the church?
 
AverageJoe said:
I don't care to listen to either Hyles. It's like ingesting poison.
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I completely agree, but I wanted to hear what he had to say for himself and now I know. He has no regret. He has no repentance. He will not reach out to those he damaged. And now HE claims to be the victim. IFB leadership (Bob Gray Sr and others) has no discernment which leads to the rampant hypocrisy that we have and are seeing.
 
AverageJoe said:
I don't care to listen to either Hyles. It's like ingesting poison.
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I completely agree, but I wanted to hear what he had to say for himself and now I know. He has no regret. He has no repentance. He will not reach out to those he damaged. And now HE claims to be the victim. IFB leadership (Bob Gray Sr and others) has no discernment which leads to the rampant hypocrisy that we have and are seeing.
 
Ransom said:
Well, since we've been talking about Dave Hyles on this thread since about Post #47, you tell me: 30 years later, does he have a "good report" within and without the church?
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I was going with fallen pastors the title of the thread and I don't know anything about the man since Post 47 has been speaking. As for me I think it would probably be best for people to serve God in a diligent fashion in the ministry of helps. considering it might not be of benefit to try to be in high leadership. or as people call being in the limelight again.
 
i still find it sad that there seems to be more concern for the welfare of these wolves who preyed on the flock than there has ever been for the sheep they fed on..... imagine what it would look like if people in the fundamentalist world could learn to ignore these "fallen" predatory "pastors" the way they ignore the victims whose lives were destroyed by them........ ...and i put both the words "fallen" and "pastors" in quote marks because one has to wonder if they ever really had the heart of a pastor and if they actually fell from anything - rather than simply being discovered for what they were... and for what they had always been....... .. it;s hard to fall or fail at something you were only pretending to do... .
 
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The primary mark of one who has been 'restored' is humility.

I don't think any of them would want to be 'restored' to a high office.

Hannah Hurnard's 'Water Song' comes to mind. Much Afraid longed to go to the High Places, where perfect love casteth out fear. The Shepherd gave her two companions, Suffering and Sorrow, to help her in her journey.
When she finally arrived, and found she had hind's feet to leap and skip sure-footed in the mountains, and her companions were revealed to be Grace and Glory, her greatest joy was to leap from the mountain tops to the lowest place of all.
Come, oh come! let us away--
Lower, lower every day,
Oh, what joy it is to race
Down to find the lowest place.
This the dearest law we know--
"It is happy to go low."
Sweetest urge and sweetest will,
"Let us go down lower still."
Hear the summons night and day
Calling us to come away.
From the heights we leap and flow
To the valleys down below.
Always answering to the call,
To the lowest place of all.
Sweetest urge and sweetest pain,
To go low and rise again.
 
sociopath every time I read the meaning and how people act they fall into this category......
Nothing is ever done to correct the problem. They are moved to another location to follow the same steps.
Sadly I was hoping with a new pastor things would be different they have the most of the staff, and deacons. Has anything changed for the better?
 
abcaines said:
You definitely make a valid point. Perhaps the vast majority of men who have fallen from positions of leadership were never "big name" types and have gone on to serve quietly reaching out to others who have stumbled.

I guess when one thinks of pastors who have fallen, their minds gravitate toward the megachurch types. I'm guilty of this myself. They are the most visible and their stories garner the headlines.
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As for me this is why I favor small churches rather then mega ones. A small church should never want to stay small, I'm not saying that but instead of growing as one huge group under one leader break up on purpose into mutiple gathering of believers. The advantage of that if one leader has a moral failure the impact of such is minimized not traumatizing large numbers of people. I could be wrong on this but that's what I think.
 
Rockson said:
As for me this is why I favor small churches rather then mega ones. A small church should never want to stay small, I'm not saying that but instead of growing as one huge group under one leader break up on purpose into mutiple gathering of believers. The advantage of that if one leader has a moral failure the impact of such is minimized not traumatizing large numbers of people. I could be wrong on this but that's what I think.
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Definitely. IMNSHO, I think if a church grows to a certain size, it should be spinning off new congregations. A pastor of a large church who is worth his salt is investing himself into training up leadership who can expand the work over a broader area.
 
I have been a member of both kinds of churches, and TBH, I truly believe that a church that grows to over 1k people should recommend that a sister church be formed. Problems in a mega church usually end up destroying people's faith and lives.
 
AverageJoe said:
I have been a member of both kinds of churches, and TBH, I truly believe that a church that grows to over 1k people should recommend that a sister church be formed. Problems in a mega church usually end up destroying people's faith and lives.
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I agree. I've been in mega churches. The biggest problem is that the people who need fellowship and encouragement (aka exhortation Hebrews 10:23-25) come, sit, leave and never have those.
 
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