First Baptist Church of Hammond and Baptist Successionism

[rsc2a]

Why is there any reason to single out one translation?

Is this a sincere question?  If it is, then I suggest you do some research.  Do you really see no issue with the 1952 RV?  Good News for Modern Man?

I have issues with the KJV and NIV. Thankfully, I follow a God who isn't limited to our ability to translate His truth.

 

[RAIDER]

Why is there any reason to single out one translation?

Is this a sincere question?  If it is, then I suggest you do some research.  Do you really see no issue with the 1952 RV?  Good News for Modern Man?

I have issues with the KJV and NIV. Thankfully, I follow a God who isn't limited to our ability to translate His truth.

Where can we find His truth?

 

[rsc2a]

Lots of places including Scripture...which is found in a variety of translations.

 

[Norefund]

Didn't Russel Anderson write a letter (to Jack Hyles post mortem if memory serves) denouncing Jack Schaap and FBC/HAC for abandoning the belief that the KJV was above the original manuscripts?

JS was crazy, but not crazy enough to replace the KJV at FBCH.

He spent money like a mad man, cursed ppl out said perverted things about the Lords table and other perverted things behind the pulpit BUT you bes believe he KNEW BETTER than to replace the KJV bible at FBCH.

From what I understand they were willing to cover up when he was molesting that teenage girl but if he would have attempted to replace the KJV bible they would have voted him out.

 

[TidesofTruth]

Didn't Russel Anderson write a letter (to Jack Hyles post mortem if memory serves) denouncing Jack Schaap and FBC/HAC for abandoning the belief that the KJV was above the original manuscripts?

JS was crazy, but not crazy enough to replace the KJV at FBCH.

He spent money like a mad man, cursed ppl out said perverted things about the Lords table and other perverted things behind the pulpit BUT you bes believe he KNEW BETTER than to replace the KJV bible at FBCH.

From what I understand they were willing to cover up when he was molesting that teenage girl but if he would have attempted to replace the KJV bible they would have voted him out.

Specifically on the issue of the definition of the word "Inspiration".  Schaap wanted to use the definition "God Breathed" and because of that strict definition Schaap claimed the KJV technically was not inspired.  That is why the letter was written.  Schaap wanted to play linguistic games that did not need to be played and divided fundamentalism even more.

 

[Tennessean]

In his book, Enemies of Soulwinning, Jack Hyles taught  Landmarkism/Baptist successionism (the belief that the Baptist church is the original church), that the church started in AD 31 when Christ was still alive (and not at Pentecost), and that the Catholic Church was started by the Emperor Constantine in AD 313. Many IFB's don't believe in a "universal church" or that Baptists are Protestants.

Landmarkism is a type of Baptist ecclesiology developed in the American South in the mid-19th century. It attributes an unbroken continuity and legitimacy to the Baptist Church since Apostolic times. It includes the belief in the exclusive validity of Baptist churches and invalidity of non-Baptist churchly acts. It led to intense debates and splits in the white Baptist community.

Baptist successionism (also known as "Baptist perpetuity") is one of several theories on the origin and continuation of Baptist churches. The tenet of the theory is that there has been an unbroken chain of churches since the days of John the Baptist, who baptized Christ, which have held similar beliefs (though not always the name) of current Baptists. Ancient anti-paedobaptist groups, such as the Montanists, Paulicians, Cathari, Waldenses, Albigenses, and Anabaptists, have been among those viewed by Baptist successionists as the predecessors of modern-day Baptists.

The perpetuity view is often identified with The Trail of Blood, a pamphlet by J.M. Carroll published in 1931. Other Baptist writers who held the perpetuity view are John T. Christian, Thomas Crosby, G. H. Orchard, J. M. Cramp, William Cathcart, Adam Taylor and D. B. Ray.

So is Landmarkism or Baptist Successionism still being taught at FBCH and HAC?

Would you please post the page number of "Enemies of Soul winning" where Bro. Hyles taught the Landmark position. When you posted I took my copy off the shelf and turned to the chapter, "The Universal Church." While Bro. Hyles does refute the Universal church and state that Jesus started His church while here on earth, he does not say anything about Landmarkism. If you will read his book, "The Church," you will find his position regarding Landmarkism.

 

[Tennessean]

This is not openly taught. If it were there are many of us who would vocally oppose it.

BG,

I find it hard to believe that you have "Any," leadership role at First Baptist. If you are a deacon you are so far out of the loop you ought to resign because they sure aren't telling you anything.

In the last 2 years I have interviewed 4 FBMI missionaries and have taken 3 on for support. In the questioning all four were asked when they believed that Jesus started his church, during His earthly ministry or on the Day of Pentecost. All 4 without reservation stated that Jesus started His church during His earthly ministry. They did not know my belief or position. One of the 4 did not go to HAC under Bro. Hyles only Bro. Schaap, so I was pleased with his answer.

If you are really a deacon at First Baptist, based on what you say here, you should do the honest thing and resign.

 

[bgwilkinson]

This is not openly taught. If it were there are many of us who would vocally oppose it.

BG,

I find it hard to believe that you have "Any," leadership role at First Baptist. If you are a deacon you are so far out of the loop you ought to resign because they sure aren't telling you anything.

In the last 2 years I have interviewed 4 FBMI missionaries and have taken 3 on for support. In the questioning all four were asked when they believed that Jesus started his church, during His earthly ministry or on the Day of Pentecost. All 4 without reservation stated that Jesus started His church during His earthly ministry. They did not know my belief or position. One of the 4 did not go to HAC under Bro. Hyles only Bro. Schaap, so I was pleased with his answer.

If you are really a deacon at First Baptist, based on what you say here, you should do the honest thing and resign.

What exactly do you think this meant?

"This is not openly taught. If it were there are many of us who would vocally oppose it."

 

[BALAAM]

Didn't Russel Anderson write a letter (to Jack Hyles post mortem if memory serves) denouncing Jack Schaap and FBC/HAC for abandoning the belief that the KJV was above the original manuscripts?

JS was crazy, but not crazy enough to replace the KJV at FBCH.

He spent money like a mad man, cursed ppl out said perverted things about the Lords table and other perverted things behind the pulpit BUT you bes believe he KNEW BETTER than to replace the KJV bible at FBCH.

From what I understand they were willing to cover up when he was molesting that teenage girl but if he would have attempted to replace the KJV bible they would have voted him out.

Specifically on the issue of the definition of the word "Inspiration".  Schaap wanted to use the definition "God Breathed" and because of that strict definition Schaap claimed the KJV technically was not inspired.  That is why the letter was written.  Schaap wanted to play linguistic games that did not need to be played and divided fundamentalism even more.

I do not personally believe that either jh or especially js were influential enough to divide 'fundamentalism'. This comes from a very small segment of folks who thought that jh was messiah #2.

 

[RAIDER]

This is not openly taught. If it were there are many of us who would vocally oppose it.

BG,

I find it hard to believe that you have "Any," leadership role at First Baptist. If you are a deacon you are so far out of the loop you ought to resign because they sure aren't telling you anything.

In the last 2 years I have interviewed 4 FBMI missionaries and have taken 3 on for support. In the questioning all four were asked when they believed that Jesus started his church, during His earthly ministry or on the Day of Pentecost. All 4 without reservation stated that Jesus started His church during His earthly ministry. They did not know my belief or position. One of the 4 did not go to HAC under Bro. Hyles only Bro. Schaap, so I was pleased with his answer.

If you are really a deacon at First Baptist, based on what you say here, you should do the honest thing and resign.

What exactly do you think this meant?

"This is not openly taught. If it were there are many of us who would vocally oppose it."

I cannot imagine you vocally opposing anything unless it is several years after the fact.

 

[Gonefishin]

This is not openly taught. If it were there are many of us who would vocally oppose it.

BG,

I find it hard to believe that you have "Any," leadership role at First Baptist. If you are a deacon you are so far out of the loop you ought to resign because they sure aren't telling you anything.

In the last 2 years I have interviewed 4 FBMI missionaries and have taken 3 on for support. In the questioning all four were asked when they believed that Jesus started his church, during His earthly ministry or on the Day of Pentecost. All 4 without reservation stated that Jesus started His church during His earthly ministry. They did not know my belief or position. One of the 4 did not go to HAC under Bro. Hyles only Bro. Schaap, so I was pleased with his answer.

If you are really a deacon at First Baptist, based on what you say here, you should do the honest thing and resign.

What exactly do you think this meant?

"This is not openly taught. If it were there are many of us who would vocally oppose it."

When did any of you "deacons" vocally oppose the sex talks during church under Schaap?  When did any of you "deacons" vocally oppose the millions of dollars being spent of a farm, trips for staff members to Disney or other non business related places, cars for staff members,  money for houses?  Your type BG is what is wrong with churches like FBC. You talk a big game but you have no intestinal fortitude to take a stand. Keep on believing what they tell you friend. If you were a deacon from Bro Hyles era then you must be very simple and not know how to see through the smoke and mirrors of lies and deceit.

 

[RAIDER]

This is not openly taught. If it were there are many of us who would vocally oppose it.

BG,

I find it hard to believe that you have "Any," leadership role at First Baptist. If you are a deacon you are so far out of the loop you ought to resign because they sure aren't telling you anything.

In the last 2 years I have interviewed 4 FBMI missionaries and have taken 3 on for support. In the questioning all four were asked when they believed that Jesus started his church, during His earthly ministry or on the Day of Pentecost. All 4 without reservation stated that Jesus started His church during His earthly ministry. They did not know my belief or position. One of the 4 did not go to HAC under Bro. Hyles only Bro. Schaap, so I was pleased with his answer.

If you are really a deacon at First Baptist, based on what you say here, you should do the honest thing and resign.

What exactly do you think this meant?

"This is not openly taught. If it were there are many of us who would vocally oppose it."

When did any of you "deacons" vocally oppose the sex talks during church under Schaap?  When did any of you "deacons" vocally oppose the millions of dollars being spent of a farm, trips for staff members to Disney or other non business related places, cars for staff members,  money for houses?  Your type BG is what is wrong with churches like FBC. You talk a big game but you have no intestinal fortitude to take a stand. Keep on believing what they tell you friend. If you were a deacon from Bro Hyles era then you must be very simple and not know how to see through the smoke and mirrors of lies and deceit.

That'll leave a mark!!

 

[Binaca Chugger]

I think you are slightly inaccurate. Yes, Bro. Hyles taught that there is no universal church. Yes, Bro. Hyles taught that the church started in Jesus' lifetime not at Pentecost. Yes, Bro. Hyles taught a concept he called the perpetuity of the local church. But he meant by that that the local church has a grant of protection from God and it doesn't have to go out of business. He did not mean that every other church had to come directly from some other church in order to be valid. Yes, he believed that Baptists were the original Christians but he was not a Landmarker.

Agreed.  Only change I would make is that he knew individual churches could go bankrupt, but didn't have to of they filed the great Commission.

 

[prophet]

This is not openly taught. If it were there are many of us who would vocally oppose it.

BG,

I find it hard to believe that you have "Any," leadership role at First Baptist. If you are a deacon you are so far out of the loop you ought to resign because they sure aren't telling you anything.

In the last 2 years I have interviewed 4 FBMI missionaries and have taken 3 on for support. In the questioning all four were asked when they believed that Jesus started his church, during His earthly ministry or on the Day of Pentecost. All 4 without reservation stated that Jesus started His church during His earthly ministry. They did not know my belief or position. One of the 4 did not go to HAC under Bro. Hyles only Bro. Schaap, so I was pleased with his answer.

If you are really a deacon at First Baptist, based on what you say here, you should do the honest thing and resign.

He was referring to Landmarkism.

And, yes, he sat up there in the tenor section of the choir, and served on the Deacon Board with my Dad, and taught SS.

There are a lot of you HACkers that showed up and had no idea how little consolidation of beliefs there was at FBCH.  JH preached constantly from a p.o.v.  of trying to convince the mixed multitude of what he was saying.
He often sounded frustrated.
He often changed his "beliefs", especially being susceptible to peers with charisma and their pet doctrines.

My Dad was never a Baptist, yet he served in the ministry there for over 20 years.

There is a lot you don't know.

One is, that hardly anyone who graduated when JW did, is "KJVO".

Haklo

 

[RAIDER]

There are a lot of you HACkers that showed up and had no idea

That says it all. 

 

[IFB X-Files]

There are a lot of you HACkers that showed up and had no idea

That says it all. 

Isn't ignorance bliss?