First my alma mater (TTU) now Clearwater

[subllibrm]

In defense of the pastor (and agreeing Tom) he didn't blame CCM exclusively. He noted it as a symptom of an apparent attempt to change/catch-up/adapt to a changing climate. The perceived value of the change itself is debatable (as this thread bears out) but I can see where too much too soon would alienate the people paying the bills while trying to reach a student base that probably won't be impressed by the adjustments.

These schools are pretty much niche ministries anyway. The leadership teams are in a pretty tough position to try to sell a 1977 product to this generation. They are in a harder spot if they think they can move that far philosophically in such a short amount of time. The pastor's lament aside, how many kids are there who actually want to go to an Indy Fundy school? Certainly not enough to keep all of them afloat. What we are seeing is the results after the bottom fell out.

So no, CCM didn't kill CCC. Not allowing CCM sooner killed CCC.

 

[4everfsu]

http://www.tampabay.com/news/business/realestate/whats-next-for-waterfront-clearwater-christian-college-site/2233262

 

[Just John]

In defense of the pastor (and agreeing Tom) he didn't blame CCM exclusively. He noted it as a symptom of an apparent attempt to change/catch-up/adapt to a changing climate. The perceived value of the change itself is debatable (as this thread bears out) but I can see where too much too soon would alienate the people paying the bills while trying to reach a student base that probably won't be impressed by the adjustments.

These schools are pretty much niche ministries anyway. The leadership teams are in a pretty tough position to try to sell a 1977 product to this generation. They are in a harder spot if they think they can move that far philosophically in such a short amount of time. The pastor's lament aside, how many kids are there who actually want to go to an Indy Fundy school? Certainly not enough to keep all of them afloat. What we are seeing is the results after the bottom fell out.

So no, CCM didn't kill CCC. Not allowing CCM sooner killed CCC.

Very good post and I think the last sentence does a good job of illuminating the attitudes of many of these schools who allowed preferences to become doctrine. Most of us have been in or part of the IFB movement for many years. We can all remember crazy things that were once "sin" that are no longer considered such.  (Wire-rimmed glasses anyone?) When you go so far out on the limb it's almost impossible to get back without it breaking.

Although when I was a student 30 years ago at Liberty and thought it was a bit too strict then on (Christian) music, not allowing students to go to movies, ties/dresses to class, etc., Liberty was never quite as extreme as some of the other schools  mentioned.  Falwell himself was never as hardcore on those things as most pastors in the movement but IMO held to rules that made parents feel comfortable their kids went there and was sufficiently fundamentalist. The music was CCM-lite at best but much more contemporary than other fundy schools then and were criticized for it.

Lastly, their on-campus growth in the last decade has been a result of the success of the on-line program. I do think on-line is becoming a "new normal" but there will always be those who want to live the college life with the sports and extra-curricular benefits a brick and mortar campus can provide. They are restricting on-campus growth for the fifth straight year due to lack of space despite of constant building.  I hope it doesn't come back to bite them in 15-20 years.

 

[Patebald]

A pastor's perspective in the Tampa Bay area on the closing of CCC

http://heartofashepherd.com/2015/06/06/june-6-2015-from-the-front-pew-this-pastors-perspective-on-the-closing-of-clearwater-christian-college/

LOL.... CCM killed it....

I reckon all those other colleges using CCM are next.......

Well... yes, it did. Not only this, but this and everything else that comes with a more relevant contextualization. It's like any IFB style church that makes a transition from ultra conservative/traditional to relevant/contemporary... Most of them don't make it. I've lived in TB all my life and I have very close friends who are alumni of CCC - I watched the transition of them trying to become a "hipper" school and I watched it become their demise. When you build the majority of your enrollment on IFB style churches it's never going to end well when you try to take the students an entirely different direction.

An IFB style college trying to be a hip and relevant liberal arts university is really awkward. Generational hipsters and yuccis who were never "IFB" can sniff it out a mile away... And so they stay away. The college ends up losing its old students and supporters and can't replace them fast enough with new ones. It's exactly what happened to TTU. Champion Baptist will be next.

 

[Tarheel Baptist]

A pastor's perspective in the Tampa Bay area on the closing of CCC

http://heartofashepherd.com/2015/06/06/june-6-2015-from-the-front-pew-this-pastors-perspective-on-the-closing-of-clearwater-christian-college/

LOL.... CCM killed it....

I reckon all those other colleges using CCM are next.......

Well... yes, it did. Not only this, but this and everything else that comes with a more relevant contextualization. It's like any IFB style church that makes a transition from ultra conservative/traditional to relevant/contemporary... Most of them don't make it. I've lived in TB all my life and I have very close friends who are alumni of CCC - I watched the transition of them trying to become a "hipper" school and I watched it become their demise. When you build the majority of your enrollment on IFB style churches it's never going to end well when you try to take the students an entirely different direction.

An IFB style college trying to be a hip and relevant liberal arts university is really awkward. Generational hipsters and yuccis who were never "IFB" can sniff it out a mile away... And so they stay away. The college ends up losing its old students and supporters and can't replace them fast enough with new ones. It's exactly what happened to TTU. Champion Baptist will be next.

Excellent post and points!
I was a student at CCC for one year, a looooong time ago.
At that point in time, their goal was to be BJU south!

 

[4everfsu]

A pastor's perspective in the Tampa Bay area on the closing of CCC

http://heartofashepherd.com/2015/06/06/june-6-2015-from-the-front-pew-this-pastors-perspective-on-the-closing-of-clearwater-christian-college/

LOL.... CCM killed it....

I reckon all those other colleges using CCM are next.......

Well... yes, it did. Not only this, but this and everything else that comes with a more relevant contextualization. It's like any IFB style church that makes a transition from ultra conservative/traditional to relevant/contemporary... Most of them don't make it. I've lived in TB all my life and I have very close friends who are alumni of CCC - I watched the transition of them trying to become a "hipper" school and I watched it become their demise. When you build the majority of your enrollment on IFB style churches it's never going to end well when you try to take the students an entirely different direction.

An IFB style college trying to be a hip and relevant liberal arts university is really awkward. Generational hipsters and yuccis who were never "IFB" can sniff it out a mile away... And so they stay away. The college ends up losing its old students and supporters and can't replace them fast enough with new ones. It's exactly what happened to TTU. Champion Baptist will be next.

Excellent point. And I knew TB when he went to CCC.

 

[Patebald]

Excellent point. And I knew TB when he went to CCC.

I was actually referring to Tampa Bay

 

[4everfsu]

Excellent point. And I knew TB when he went to CCC.

I was actually referring to Tampa Bay

I knew you meant Tampa Bay and I meant Tarheel Baptist

 

[praise_yeshua]

A pastor's perspective in the Tampa Bay area on the closing of CCC

http://heartofashepherd.com/2015/06/06/june-6-2015-from-the-front-pew-this-pastors-perspective-on-the-closing-of-clearwater-christian-college/

LOL.... CCM killed it....

I reckon all those other colleges using CCM are next.......

Well... yes, it did. Not only this, but this and everything else that comes with a more relevant contextualization. It's like any IFB style church that makes a transition from ultra conservative/traditional to relevant/contemporary... Most of them don't make it. I've lived in TB all my life and I have very close friends who are alumni of CCC - I watched the transition of them trying to become a "hipper" school and I watched it become their demise. When you build the majority of your enrollment on IFB style churches it's never going to end well when you try to take the students an entirely different direction.

An IFB style college trying to be a hip and relevant liberal arts university is really awkward. Generational hipsters and yuccis who were never "IFB" can sniff it out a mile away... And so they stay away. The college ends up losing its old students and supporters and can't replace them fast enough with new ones. It's exactly what happened to TTU. Champion Baptist will be next.

The problems existed BEFORE they tired to correct the problem by being "hip". You and the author are both blaming the change with the failure and the failure was coming regardless.

The IFB way is destined for failure.

 

[Patebald]

Excellent point. And I knew TB when he went to CCC.

I was actually referring to Tampa Bay

I knew you meant Tampa Bay and I meant Tarheel Baptist

Awe.... Gotcha!

 

[Patebald]

A pastor's perspective in the Tampa Bay area on the closing of CCC

http://heartofashepherd.com/2015/06/06/june-6-2015-from-the-front-pew-this-pastors-perspective-on-the-closing-of-clearwater-christian-college/

LOL.... CCM killed it....

I reckon all those other colleges using CCM are next.......

Well... yes, it did. Not only this, but this and everything else that comes with a more relevant contextualization. It's like any IFB style church that makes a transition from ultra conservative/traditional to relevant/contemporary... Most of them don't make it. I've lived in TB all my life and I have very close friends who are alumni of CCC - I watched the transition of them trying to become a "hipper" school and I watched it become their demise. When you build the majority of your enrollment on IFB style churches it's never going to end well when you try to take the students an entirely different direction.

An IFB style college trying to be a hip and relevant liberal arts university is really awkward. Generational hipsters and yuccis who were never "IFB" can sniff it out a mile away... And so they stay away. The college ends up losing its old students and supporters and can't replace them fast enough with new ones. It's exactly what happened to TTU. Champion Baptist will be next.

The problems existed BEFORE they tired to correct the problem by being "hip". You and the author are both blaming the change with the failure and the failure was coming regardless.

The IFB way is destined for failure.

Maybe... I dunno. But they were doing very well before the changes... So by a process of elimination and the current data, I'd say the changes definitely expedited their demise.

 

[BALAAM]

Let me offer a slightly different viewpoint here and this is my opinion only:

For years in the ifb world they kind of developed this cradle to grave mentality. Meaning you grow up in our church, attend our schools, go to our approved college, and work for the rest of your life in one of "our" ministries. At least that was the take I got from going to hac and attending fbch.

When the recession hit about 8 years ago many of these ifb institutions found themselves in a lot of financial trouble and had to lay off staff and teachers. Many of these teachers and staff members who worked and taught in ifb institutions could not find suitable positions in other ifb ministries or else wanted to stay in the area they were in and started to find that their degrees from hac etc. and teaching experience did not qualify them to move on to other schools and ministries.  I could name half a dozen I know personally. One is a lady who has been divorced with kids and is teaching in a public school but can't get any benefits or a contract without a degree from an accredited school.

Now a lot of these people have taken work in secular areas and their kids are coming  of age looking at colleges and the allure and bravado of the ifb colleges has worn off. It used to be the will of God for every kid to go to their church's college of choice and work in the ifb salt mines for life and that is no longer possible.

 

[bgwilkinson]

The number of IFB colleges now exceeds the limit for financially viable institutions.

The students-customers have not kept up with the supply of available new IFB colleges.

HAC was at it's largest real enrollment in 1984. Every year since there has been a slow but steady erosion in actual full-time students, the ones that pay the bills and carry the load financially. Bro. Hyles tried all kinds of gimmicks to fudge the numbers and give the appearance of increasing enrollment. The extra numbers counted did not bring in enough money to cover their expenses.

There are just too many IFB colleges, IMHO.

 

[nib1066]

Let me offer a slightly different viewpoint here and this is my opinion only:

For years in the ifb world they kind of developed this cradle to grave mentality. Meaning you grow up in our church, attend our schools, go to our approved college, and work for the rest of your life in one of "our" ministries. At least that was the take I got from going to hac and attending fbch.

Now a lot of these people have taken work in secular areas and their kids are coming  of age looking at colleges and the allure and bravado of the ifb colleges has worn off. It used to be the will of God for every kid to go to their church's college of choice and work in the ifb salt mines for life and that is no longer possible.

There is a lot of truth in this statement. I discovered this harsh reality shortly after I graduated from WCBC. I was rejected for the ministry by Paul Chapell  because I did not "knock on enough doors." I then took my "degree" and applied for a teaching job at a very good Christian school in the area. They would not give me am interview because I did not have an accredited degree. Thus I had to swallow my pride and go to a real college. It was the best thing I ever did, because when the recession hit and many of my Bible college classmates had to work entry-level jobs to survive, I was teaching an excellent school.

 

[4everfsu]

Let me offer a slightly different viewpoint here and this is my opinion only:

For years in the ifb world they kind of developed this cradle to grave mentality. Meaning you grow up in our church, attend our schools, go to our approved college, and work for the rest of your life in one of "our" ministries. At least that was the take I got from going to hac and attending fbch.

When the recession hit about 8 years ago many of these ifb institutions found themselves in a lot of financial trouble and had to lay off staff and teachers. Many of these teachers and staff members who worked and taught in ifb institutions could not find suitable positions in other ifb ministries or else wanted to stay in the area they were in and started to find that their degrees from hac etc. and teaching experience did not qualify them to move on to other schools and ministries.  I could name half a dozen I know personally. One is a lady who has been divorced with kids and is teaching in a public school but can't get any benefits or a contract without a degree from an accredited school.

Now a lot of these people have taken work in secular areas and their kids are coming  of age looking at colleges and the allure and bravado of the ifb colleges has worn off. It used to be the will of God for every kid to go to their church's college of choice and work in the ifb salt mines for life and that is no longer possible.

Good points

 

[4everfsu]

The number of IFB colleges now exceeds the limit for financially viable institutions.

The students-customers have not kept up with the supply of available new IFB colleges.

HAC was at it's largest real enrollment in 1984. Every year since there has been a slow but steady erosion in actual full-time students, the ones that pay the bills and carry the load financially. Bro. Hyles tried all kinds of gimmicks to fudge the numbers and give the appearance of increasing enrollment. The extra numbers counted did not bring in enough money to cover their expenses.

There are just too many IFB colleges, IMHO.

Funny how the largest enrollment at HAC was in the 80s. Sound familiar to TTU also and we know how that story turned out.

 

[subllibrm]

Funny how the largest enrollment at HAC was in the 80s. Sound familiar to TTU also and we know how that story turned out.

CCM did it. It took 35 years but by golly CCM did it.

 

[rsc2a]

I blame them getting running water.

 

[BALAAM]

I know this thread is about colleges but let's bring up something a little different. The ifb christian schools seem to be on the decline also. When my kids were in Hammond Baptist schools we were king of the hill and every year they would announce that there were certain schools they would no longer play in sports because their cheerleaders didn't meet the proper codes or whatever. Now I have grand kids in school and many of the teams they used to play can't even be found any more. Now they will play just about anyone who they can get to come. Declining enrollment seems to be a very contagious disease!

 

[cubanito]

As a fundamentalist raised by zombies, mayhap I can offer a different viewpoint.

College for most people is a losing proposition today. Even back in the 80's when I went to the U of Miami in Florida I found that most people were there wasting their time. Unless you're getting a degree in a "hard" science like chemistry, or one of the professions, like my own MD, you're better off in a trade school for plumbing, machinist ect.

There are way,  way more english, liberal arts and other EASY majors out there. College for the majority of students is a waste of time (and in secular schools, detrimental to your liver for sure).

I went to college with a specific plan. I executed the plan, and that was worth it. To go to college to "find yourself" or get a broad education is absurd. Pick up an old encyclopedia for the education and talk to a stoned-out hippie if you want to "find yourself".  Or better yet, have a conversation with the Trinity, those People REALLY like conversation and can tell you about yourself. Plus the Trinity keep all manner of odd hours, no appointment necessary. I REFUSE to pay for a soft major for any of my kids. It is not worth it.

In the secular world there are collapsing liberal arts college as well, and for the same reasons. To get an education that is only worth a teaching degree is basically a Ponzi scheme.

I need a plummer today, not some Shakespearean literarist.

JR