Fisher vs Fisherman

Dr. Huk-N-Duck

Dr. Huk-N-Duck

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The other day I had a girl ask me if I was a “fisher.” The question threw me off for a few seconds because I wasn’t very familiar with the term, but I got the drift. I guess it’s no longer PC to say “fisherman.” 🙄

https://hakaimagazine.com/news/fishers-or-fishermen-which-right/#:~:text=“Fishers”%20is%20most%20commonly%20used,the%20North%20American%20fishing%20industry.
 
Please, can you make me laugh any harder?
 
HukNduck said:
The other day I had a girl ask me if I was a “fisher.” The question threw me off for a few seconds because I wasn’t very familiar with the term, but I got the drift. I guess it’s no longer PC to say “fisherman.” 🙄

https://hakaimagazine.com/news/fishers-or-fishermen-which-right/#:~:text=“Fishers”%20is%20most%20commonly%20used,the%20North%20American%20fishing%20industry.
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i wonder if that reporter in the link ever went down to the auction block when she was writing here in hawaii.... to see what the commercial fisherman down there thought about it... :unsure:... first of all she would have to get comfortable being referred to as "sistah" before the conversation even started..... .. i can only imagine what kinds of looks she would get if she suggested they changed from being called fishermen to fishers......:LOL: ......back when i worked on the boat i was technically everything on board the boat except a fisherman..... (or the captain).... . so it was actually a compliment if the customers at the dock referred to me as one of the fishermen.... 🎣
 
aleshanee said:
i wonder if that reporter in the link ever went down to the auction block when she was writing here in hawaii.... to see what the commercial fisherman down there thought about it... :unsure:... first of all she would have to get comfortable being referred to as "sistah" before the conversation even started..... .. i can only imagine what kinds of looks she would get if she suggested they changed from being called fishermen to fishers......:LOL: ......back when i worked on the boat i was technically everything on board the boat except a fisherman..... (or the captain).... . so it was actually a compliment if the customers at the dock referred to me as one of the fishermen.... 🎣
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In my professional life, I’m kind of used to people being a bit politically correct. However, in my off hours, I’m definitely not used to it. She was working at a restaurant I got some to-go food from and was probably around 19 or 20 years old, so I figured probably a college student in on the latest speech police stuff. She’d never get invited on my boat, I know that.
 
HukNduck said:
But I bet the NIV prefers “fisherman.” 😉
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:)

And you'd be right. In the NIV, "fishermen" wins, 7-0.

"Fisher" seems to be an interesting case of an old word falling out of fashion, then coming back into fashion again, though for completely different reasons.
 
aleshanee said:
no gender
implied.... but it;s understood the pearl fishers in the song are men...
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A gender actually is implied. French is a gendered language, and if a specifically female fisherman is intended, she's une pêcheuse. Though if the sex of the fishermen is undetermined, you default to the masculine form.
 
aleshanee said:
no offense ... but i know french is gendered....i speak french .... and in the opera itself at least one of the fishers in the boat is female.... yet she is described as "pêcheur" along with all the rest of them.... but i say it;s understood by listeners that they are all men.... (or maybe i should have said "assumed")... because men have always been the ones who performed this aria.. all parts of it.... ... at least in all the versions of it i have heard.....
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Thanks for the clarifcation. I didn't know the context. You were right the first time.
 
Ransom said:
Thanks for the clarifcation. I didn't know the context. You were right the first time.
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thank you... and no problem..... i had to double check to even be sure what i said myself.... it;s really early and i;m only half awake so far... we are about to leave in a few minutes to go up to punchbowl crater.... going to be a very busy and multi-eventful memorial day... :cool:
 
aleshanee said:
truthfully i don;t think it would bother hawaiians either way whether they were called
fishermen or just fishers. .....of course they would rather be called fish-catchers... or
just be able to say on return that they went catching rather than just fishing...... :cool:

but all this reminds of a famous song..... or actually a famous duet within an opera called
les pecheurs de perles.. which in french simply means "the pearl fishers"..... no gender
implied.... but it;s understood the pearl fishers in the song are men...


it;s part of a longer piece called... au fond du temple saint.. .. which means "into the holy temple" ... and the lyrics
describe a group of pearl fishers going into a temple dedicated to a goddess.. and then to see her suddenly appear in
front of them... walk in among them... and leave them all awe struck and obsessed with her.... .. they almost start
fighting each other when she disapears again but then realize they are all united by the same destiny and vow to
remain friends to the end..... ..beautiful song... even more so because it;s done in french.. . but no fishing involved..

​

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Interesting. I have to be honest about my ignorance of opera. I can say I saw the Phantom of the Opera when I was a kid, but that’s about the extent of my opera exposure.
 
aleshanee said:
no offense ... but i know french is gendered....i speak french .... . and in the opera itself at least one of the fishers in the boat is female.... yet she is described as "pêcheur" along with all the rest of them.... but i say it;s understood by listeners that they are all men.... (or maybe i should have said "assumed")... because men have always been the ones who performed this aria.. all parts of it.... ... at least in all the versions of it i have heard.....

and the song itself only says a "crowd" went into the temple... it doesn;t say whether they were men or women or mixed company.... but men always perform the duet so it;s assumed that;s all who were there even among those who understand the words as they are being sung... ..not many people who like this particular piece have even heard the rest of the opera.... ......

but i posted what i did just to show that the terms "fishers"... and "fishermen"... have always been interchangeable with no insult or slight intended to the fishing person being described...... and even in the case of french - where there are also fisherwomen...(pêcheuse)... a term that is seldom used unless she is fishing by herself and no men are present.... no one was ever offended either way until now when suddenly the pc language police have rushed in blowing whistles..

i don;t get to practice french very often... ....among the languages i am fluent in it;s the one least often used here in hawaii...(other than navajo..)..... . no doubt if someone actually from france heard me speaking french they would probably scream like they were being tortured or have an apoplexy.... a navajo speaker had a mini breakdown once over what i was trying to say.. which is why i don;t really consider that to be a lanuage i;m fluent in anymore.... ...but there will probably be a few at the memorial day service today..(surviving code talkers or descendants of them)... so i might get a chance to practice it more.. or at least hear it done right.... ....
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Forgive me for getting off topic but I want to give you the gift of song, Aleshanee. When I was in school I took 5 years of French (4 high school and one in college) but then, after years of not using it, I'm afraid the French would "probably scream like they were being tortured" at me as they would do to you. French, to me, is a very beautiful language and I prefer it much more than to Spanish which at this time, is necessary and practical to know. I have spoken it for many years now due to my work but I prefer French. And so, here is a beautiful song and eveyone please forgive me for not talking about the fishes, fishers and fisherman. This is for you, Aleshanee:

 
HukNduck said:
Interesting. I have to be honest about my ignorance of opera. I can say I saw the Phantom of the Opera when I was a kid, but that’s about the extent of my opera exposure.
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in the years right after i came here i got to see 2 really good ones.. .... phantom of the opera with the original cast..(right before they changed to new members)... much better than the movies...... .... and les miserables.... which was good... but unfortunately the movies under that title were better than the opera.... ...i had the chance to go see "cats".. but turned it down .. and with no regrets either..... ...

in more recent years we had 3 cirque du soleil shows come through after they converted from tent shows to smaller venues... saltimbanco... alegria and quidam.... and those were awesome.. ... but all the rest of my exposure to any thing opera ..circus.. or even close to it is through television....

but if i had the choice between the 2 i think i would still rather spend a weekend on a deep sea fishing cruise than see any show.... and this time actually get to sit in the fighting chair and reel a big fish in..... ...i saw plenty of them reeled in while i was serving drinks... cooking snacks.... and lighting cigars on the boat i worked on... but never actually did the fishing.... they could call me anything they wanted - - fisher.. fisherperson.. fisherwoman or fisherman.. or even baitcutter.... i wouldn;t care as long as i was the one reeling in a 400+ pound marlin and standing next to it in the picture... :cool:
 
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aleshanee said:
in the years right after i came here i got to see 2 really good ones.. .... phantom of the opera with the original cast..(right before they changed to new members)... much better than the movies...... .... and les miserables.... which was good... but unfortunately the movies under that title were better than the opera.... ...i had the chance to go see "cats".. but turned it down .. and with no regrets either..... ...

in more recent years we had 3 cirque du soleil shows come through after they converted from tent shows to smaller venues... saltimbanco... alegria and quidam.... and those were awesome.. ... but all the rest of my exposure to any thing opera ..circus.. or even close to it is through television....

but if i had the choice between the 2 i think i would still rather spend a weekend on a deep sea fishing cruise than see any show.... and this time actually get to sit in the fighting chair and reel a big fish in..... ...i saw plenty of them reeled in while i was serving drinks... cooking snacks.... and lighting cigars on the boat i worked on... but never actually did the fishing.... they could call me anything they wanted - - fisher.. fisherperson.. fisherwoman or fisherman.. or even baitcutter.... i wouldn;t care as long as i was the one reeling in a 400+ pound marlin and standing next to it in the picture... :cool:
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I’ve always wondered if Phantom of the Opera really qualifies as a “real” opera. It’s the only one I’ve ever visited, but I just remember it feeling so “commercial like” that it made me wonder if it was the real deal.
 
HukNduck said:
I’ve always wondered if Phantom of the Opera really qualifies as a “real” opera. It’s the only one I’ve ever visited, but I just remember it feeling so “commercial like” that it made me wonder if it was the real deal.
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It's not. It's musical theatre, not true opera. The lines are blurred somewhat, but the major differences are: musicals have a greater emphasis on dance and acting whereas in opera, the emphasis is on the singing (a major opera star is not necessarily an actor); musicals incorporate popular and commercial music styles, generally sung in a style that would not be appropriate for opera; a greater proportion of the libretto for the musical will be spoken dialogue rather than sung. And a few other things.

Very little of the dialogue in The Phantom of the Opera is spoken rather than sung. The same is true of Les Miserables. They're what's known as sung-through musicals.
 
Ransom said:
It's not. It's musical theatre, not true opera. The lines are blurred somewhat, but the major differences are: musicals have a greater emphasis on dance and acting whereas in opera, the emphasis is on the singing (a major opera star is not necessarily an actor); musicals incorporate popular and commercial music styles, generally sung in a style that would not be appropriate for opera; a greater proportion of the libretto for the musical will be spoken dialogue rather than sung. And a few other things.

Very little of the dialogue in The Phantom of the Opera is spoken rather than sung. The same is true of Les Miserables. They're what's known as sung-through musicals.
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Sounds reasonable…I was also under the impression that true opera is sung in Italian (I think, but I could be wrong).
 
HukNduck said:
Sounds reasonable…I was also under the impression that true opera is sung in Italian (I think, but I could be wrong).
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Omitted that one by accident. Musical theatre is generally sung in the language of the audience, while opera is sung in its original language-- Italian, German, or French, for the most part.
 
HukNduck said:
Sounds reasonable…I was also under the impression that true opera is sung in Italian (I think, but I could be wrong).
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well... then it;s possible that i;ve never actually seen a real opera.... i don;t think anything like the classic italian french and german operas have ever been to hawaii.... it;s rare for shows like the ones i mentioned to even come here... . which is another reason so many local people are always going to vegas.... ;)
 
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aleshanee said:
well... then it;s possible that i;ve never actually seen a real opera.... i don;t think anything like the classic italian french and german operas have ever been to hawaii.... it;s rare for shows like the ones i mentioned to even come here... . which is another reason so many local people are always going to vegas.... ;)
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I’m not sure if I’d even want to go to a real opera if I couldn’t understand a single word sung. I definitely don’t see myself learning Italian, French or German in this lifetime. I’ve always considered learning Spanish a little better because it’s more practical these days.
 
HukNduck said:
I’m not sure if I’d even want to go to a real opera if I couldn’t understand a single word sung.
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A modern opera house probably has supertitles (projecting the English translation over the stage) or some other kind of captioning system.

The Canadian Opera Company invented that system and was the first to use it. My one and only opera (so far) was Beethoven's one and only opera, Fidelio, a COC production in 1991, and it was already using them.

As it happened, my second cousin was in the chorus, which I didn't know at the time (my girlfriend found his name in the program and asked if he was a relative). That was cool.

I'd love to see more, but in addition to it being an expensive pastime to attend live, Ottawa's professional opera company shut down a decade ago.
 
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