For CCM? Please convince us FROM Scripture alone

[FSSL]

A few verses back helps to clarify things, "... if I come to you and speak in tongues, what good will I be to you, unless I bring you some revelation or knowledge or prophecy or word of instruction?"

ummm, yeah, you echoed my rhetorical second question above.  Clarity of communication in the proclamation of the gospel is paramount (not the use of gifts, tongues, feelings, emotions, etc).  Your question essentially was "what does I Cor 14:8 have to do with CCM in worship?", and my response is that <some> of that junk makes it impossible to distinguish what is being communicated in the words.  If the gospel cannot be understood (whether in song, or sermon) then it is of no use, which was Paul's point.

I actually agree with your point but disagree with your application. I have a large exposure to contemporary churches that use CCM. I have never heard a song where the words were not understandable.

Now, when I open up a hymnal with hymns from the 1800s, I have to admit that there is plenty in there that is difficult to understand.

 

[subllibrm]

[quote author=.tim]What does the Bible say?

Eat, drink and be merry for tomorrow you die.
[/quote]

"Judas hung himself"

"go and do likewise"


















































;D

 

[subllibrm]

A few verses back helps to clarify things, "... if I come to you and speak in tongues, what good will I be to you, unless I bring you some revelation or knowledge or prophecy or word of instruction?"

ummm, yeah, you echoed my rhetorical second question above.  Clarity of communication in the proclamation of the gospel is paramount (not the use of gifts, tongues, feelings, emotions, etc).  Your question essentially was "what does I Cor 14:8 have to do with CCM in worship?", and my response is that <some> of that junk makes it impossible to distinguish what is being communicated in the words.  If the gospel cannot be understood (whether in song, or sermon) then it is of no use, which was Paul's point.

I actually agree with your point but disagree with your application. I have a large exposure to contemporary churches that use CCM. I have never heard a song where the words were not understandable.

Now, when I open up a hymnal with hymns from the 1800s, I have to admit that there is plenty in there that is difficult to understand.

endued, er that is I mean indeed 

 

[Frag]

I get woman liking CCM....

But men have to be a little light in the loafers to listen to more than 10 seconds of it.....

That's the ball game. Frag pulled the "you must be gay" card and lost the argument for the anti-CCM side.

First time a ball game has been lost on a home run. 

Evangelicalism is the result of the church surrendering to feminist women and rebellious teens.  CCM is a leaf on the tree -- a predicted result of evangelicalism. 

 

[.tim]

I get woman liking CCM....

But men have to be a little light in the loafers to listen to more than 10 seconds of it.....

That's the ball game. Frag pulled the "you must be gay" card and lost the argument for the anti-CCM side.

First time a ball game has been lost on a home run. 

Evangelicalism is the result of the church surrendering to feminist women and rebellious teens.  CCM is a leaf on the tree -- a predicted result of evangelicalism.

Thank God for his grace.

 

[Liberty1]

A few verses back helps to clarify things, "... if I come to you and speak in tongues, what good will I be to you, unless I bring you some revelation or knowledge or prophecy or word of instruction?"

ummm, yeah, you echoed my rhetorical second question above.  Clarity of communication in the proclamation of the gospel is paramount (not the use of gifts, tongues, feelings, emotions, etc).  Your question essentially was "what does I Cor 14:8 have to do with CCM in worship?", and my response is that <some> of that junk makes it impossible to distinguish what is being communicated in the words.  If the gospel cannot be understood (whether in song, or sermon) then it is of no use, which was Paul's point.

I actually agree with your point but disagree with your application. I have a large exposure to contemporary churches that use CCM. I have never heard a song where the words were not understandable.

Now, when I open up a hymnal with hymns from the 1800s, I have to admit that there is plenty in there that is difficult to understand.

That's more an indictment against your education than your preference.

 

[Frag]

That's more an indictment against your education than your preference.

BINGO!!!

 

[T-Bone]

I get woman liking CCM....

But men have to be a little light in the loafers to listen to more than 10 seconds of it.....

That's the ball game. Frag pulled the "you must be gay" card and lost the argument for the anti-CCM side.

First time a ball game has been lost on a home run. 

Evangelicalism is the result of the church surrendering to feminist women and rebellious teens.  CCM is a leaf on the tree -- a predicted result of evangelicalism.

Bologna!

Your statement would be like me saying...IFB is the result of legalistic spiritually dead self-centered men, who have a propensity to have relationships with women who are not their wives or with children!

This is the kind of thing ignorant generalizations lead to...you are better than this.

 

[.tim]

That's more an indictment against your education than your preference.

BINGO!!!

I don't fully understand. Say a few teens get saved, now they want to read the Bible and worship on Sunday morning ... but first they need special education???? ... in what? Old English?

 

[Frag]

That's more an indictment against your education than your preference.

BINGO!!!

I don't fully understand. Say a few teens get saved, now they want to read the Bible and worship on Sunday morning ... but first they need special education???? ... in what? Old English?

Wouldn't take long.  Thou and thee means YOU!  Done....

 

[Frag]

I get woman liking CCM....

But men have to be a little light in the loafers to listen to more than 10 seconds of it.....

That's the ball game. Frag pulled the "you must be gay" card and lost the argument for the anti-CCM side.

First time a ball game has been lost on a home run. 

Evangelicalism is the result of the church surrendering to feminist women and rebellious teens.  CCM is a leaf on the tree -- a predicted result of evangelicalism.

Bologna!

Your statement would be like me saying...IFB is the result of legalistic spiritually dead self-centered men, who have a propensity to have relationships with women who are not their wives or with children!

This is the kind of thing ignorant generalizations lead to...you are better than this.

Bro, it's absolutely true!  (my statement, not yours)

Modern evangelical churches are a result of churches trying to stay politically correct in response to the youth rebellion of the 60s and the feminist movement of the 70s and 80s.  They are culture driven, not Biblically driven.  Emotion trumps truth.  The goal is to feel good, not be good.  As these churches saw men surrender the leadership of the home to their wives, they responded by changing the church to appeal primarily to women, not men.  And by the way, while they were at it they found out that most men had also surrendered their leadership to their teenagers.  So more and more, keeping hippie Junior and mini-skirt Sissy became important because if they are not happy, weak daddy and drama mamma will follow them right out the door to another church.  So church leadership surrendered, hiding behind the excuse that they were just staying "relevant". 

 

[Frag]

By the way, I like bologna.....

....especially fried....

 

[BALAAM]

I get woman liking CCM....

But men have to be a little light in the loafers to listen to more than 10 seconds of it.....

That's the ball game. Frag pulled the "you must be gay" card and lost the argument for the anti-CCM side.

First time a ball game has been lost on a home run. 

Evangelicalism is the result of the church surrendering to feminist women and rebellious teens.  CCM is a leaf on the tree -- a predicted result of evangelicalism.

Bologna!

Your statement would be like me saying...IFB is the result of legalistic spiritually dead self-centered men, who have a propensity to have relationships with women who are not their wives or with children!

This is the kind of thing ignorant generalizations lead to...you are better than this.

Bro, it's absolutely true!  (my statement, not yours)

Modern evangelical churches are a result of churches trying to stay politically correct in response to the youth rebellion of the 60s and the feminist movement of the 70s and 80s.  They are culture driven, not Biblically driven.  Emotion trumps truth.  The goal is to feel good, not be good.  As these churches saw men surrender the leadership of the home to their wives, they responded by changing the church to appeal primarily to women, not men.  And by the way, while they were at it they found out that most men had also surrendered their leadership to their teenagers.  So more and more, keeping hippie Junior and mini-skirt Sissy became important because if they are not happy, weak daddy and drama mamma will follow them right out the door to another church.  So church leadership surrendered, hiding behind the excuse that they were just staying "relevant".

Me thinks someone would have to be a little light-in-the-loafers to come up with this. Don't get me wrong because I am sure there are churches like this, I just don't know of any. I know of churches who are accused of this and are described in this way but it is usually from someone who hasn't been there. Kind of like saying that all fundamentalists are back-woods, uneducated, abusers.

 

[FSSL]

I know of churches who are accused of this and are described in this way but it is usually from someone who hasn't been there. Kind of like saying that all fundamentalists are back-woods, uneducated, abusers.

Very true. I was on staff in a fundy church that would fit Frag's description very well. There are problem churches in both evangelicalism and fundamentalism.

 

[BALAAM]

What does the Bible say?

Deuteronomy 22:5
The woman shall not wear that which pertaineth unto a man, neither shall a man put on a woman’s garment; for all who do so are abomination unto the Lord thy God.  ;D

Deuteronomy 22:8
When thou buildest a new house, then thou shalt make a battlement for thy roof, that thou bring not blood upon thine house, if any man fall from thence.

What does the Bible SAY? America is going to the devil because people are not building houses with battlements on the roofs. And panty waste preachers are afraid to preach the whole Bible. How long since you have heard a sermon on battlements? This is a foolish post I know. But equally as foolish is some of the things people will fight, argue, and separate over. IMO

 

[subllibrm]

That's more an indictment against your education than your preference.

BINGO!!!

Hanging out at the Catlick church again?!!? 

 

[T-Bone]

I get woman liking CCM....

But men have to be a little light in the loafers to listen to more than 10 seconds of it.....

That's the ball game. Frag pulled the "you must be gay" card and lost the argument for the anti-CCM side.

First time a ball game has been lost on a home run. 

Evangelicalism is the result of the church surrendering to feminist women and rebellious teens.  CCM is a leaf on the tree -- a predicted result of evangelicalism.

Bologna!

Your statement would be like me saying...IFB is the result of legalistic spiritually dead self-centered men, who have a propensity to have relationships with women who are not their wives or with children!

This is the kind of thing ignorant generalizations lead to...you are better than this.

Bro, it's absolutely true!  (my statement, not yours)

Modern evangelical churches are a result of churches trying to stay politically correct in response to the youth rebellion of the 60s and the feminist movement of the 70s and 80s.  They are culture driven, not Biblically driven.  Emotion trumps truth.  The goal is to feel good, not be good.  As these churches saw men surrender the leadership of the home to their wives, they responded by changing the church to appeal primarily to women, not men.  And by the way, while they were at it they found out that most men had also surrendered their leadership to their teenagers.  So more and more, keeping hippie Junior and mini-skirt Sissy became important because if they are not happy, weak daddy and drama mamma will follow them right out the door to another church.  So church leadership surrendered, hiding behind the excuse that they were just staying "relevant".

Your sweeping indictment of evangelical churches does not fit any that I know personally ..nor any evangelical church that I have Pastored.  Your view is warped by your up bringing and that which you have been told by those who clearly have a bias, for what ever reason.  If you were to say some your statement might be correct, but as it stands brother, I can testify that it is patently false...just as false as my hyperbolic statement about the IFB.

 

[T-Bone]

By the way, I like bologna.....

....especially fried....

Me too! Although just to eat, not to listen to. 8)

 

[Frag]

....all fundamentalists are back-woods, uneducated, abusers.

I resent that!!!  We are NOT abusers.....

8)

 

[Frag]

Your sweeping indictment of evangelical churches does not fit any that I know personally ..nor any evangelical church that I have Pastored.  Your view is warped by your up bringing and that which you have been told by those who clearly have a bias, for what ever reason.  If you were to say some your statement might be correct, but as it stands brother, I can testify that it is patently false...just as false as my hyperbolic statement about the IFB.

Don't get mad at me..... I just held up the mirror.  Course you don't like what you see.  But it don't make it any less true. 

My post was spot on.