For CCM? Please convince us FROM Scripture alone

[T-Bone]

Your sweeping indictment of evangelical churches does not fit any that I know personally ..nor any evangelical church that I have Pastored.  Your view is warped by your up bringing and that which you have been told by those who clearly have a bias, for what ever reason.  If you were to say some your statement might be correct, but as it stands brother, I can testify that it is patently false...just as false as my hyperbolic statement about the IFB.

Don't get mad at me..... I just held up the mirror.  Course you don't like what you see.  But it don't make it any less true. 

My post was spot on.

Not mad at you...really I am sad for you...your ignorant bias is making you a DOEG against so many of your Christian brothers.

Threads by the bushel have tried to defend or denounce CCM.  Everyone is looking at the leaf while ignoring the root.

CCM thrives in evangelical churches (and some fundamental churches) for the exact reason I stated.  Shallow women want to swoon and sway in emotionalism to a "Jesus is my boyfriend" song, while rebellious teens want to rock/rap out with God.  The more effeminate men become, the more it appeals to them.  CCM is a result of a Christian culture that has turned its back on Biblical masculinity and Biblical femininity AND the result of a Christian culture that tries to appease teenage rebellion rather than confront it.

Clear to anyone who dares to seek the truth.

I will be glad to speak the truth, in your effort to stand against something you don't like or prefer you are willing to falsely label other Christians, while calling people Doegs for doing the same thing to those in the IFB with questionable morals & doctrine.  The truth is not all CCM is "Jesus is my boyfriend" and not many evangelical churches are feminized....probably the same quotient of those in the IFB with pedophile & adultery practicing mangwads!  There's some truth for you!

 

[FSSL]

i don;t refuse to see the biblical themes in the song.... that;s something you keep charging me with... and it isn;t true.... what i have seen in that song is truths that originated with God... (which makes them biblical in case you didn;t know).... but which the non-christian world has retained and sees as secular .... and would not automatically associate with christianity upon hearing it.... or even after reading the lyrics.....

Whether the world recognizes it as Christian truth or not does not make it less Christian or even unprofitable. I think this is the kernel of our differences.

 

[subllibrm]

This is why I don't go to the children's Christmas program.

Did you actually mean to set this up on a tee so well for me?


For when for the time ye ought to be teachers, ye have need that one teach you again which be the first principles of the oracles of God; and are become such as have need of milk, and not of strong meat.

But maybe you WERE implying that the CCM crowd needs to attend junior church until they learn to belly up to some real steak.

I thought the meat came in the sermon?!?!?  ???

 

[ALAYMAN]

This is why I don't go to the children's Christmas program.

Did you actually mean to set this up on a tee so well for me?


For when for the time ye ought to be teachers, ye have need that one teach you again which be the first principles of the oracles of God; and are become such as have need of milk, and not of strong meat.

But maybe you WERE implying that the CCM crowd needs to attend junior church until they learn to belly up to some real steak.

I thought the meat came in the sermon?!?!?  ???

Naw, you ain't reading the FFF enough.  It comes around the breakfast table, giving a glass of cold water, through CCM, and a variety of other venues.

 

[FSSL]

Ya didn't finish!


.... and it will never come from Alayman! 

 

[subllibrm]

Here is a traditional non-CCM song.  Surely no one could have complaints about this well-known song:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ieYwnZoNIVU

(Except for the spelling, perhaps...)

Well, there goes the associations argument! 

 

[Tarheel Baptist]

This is why I don't go to the children's Christmas program.

Did you actually mean to set this up on a tee so well for me?


For when for the time ye ought to be teachers, ye have need that one teach you again which be the first principles of the oracles of God; and are become such as have need of milk, and not of strong meat.

But maybe you WERE implying that the CCM crowd needs to attend junior church until they learn to belly up to some real steak.

I thought the meat came in the sermon?!?!?  ???

Naw, you ain't reading the FFF enough.  It comes around the breakfast table, giving a glass of cold water, through CCM, and a variety of other venues.

You leave out the fact that the breakfast table = church to some people.
On Easter they use the good China.....

 

[Tarheel Baptist]

Here is a traditional non-CCM song.  Surely no one could have complaints about this well-known song:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ieYwnZoNIVU

(Except for the spelling, perhaps...)

That's so gay!

 

[subllibrm]

Here is a traditional non-CCM song.  Surely no one could have complaints about this well-known song:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ieYwnZoNIVU

(Except for the spelling, perhaps...)

Well, there goes the associations argument! 

only in your backwards mind mr bill bus.... .... where it never had a hope of fitting into or surviving in the first place..... comparisons of that nature don;t serve ether side..... and only encourages further and even more ludicrous comparisons..........  but do carry on with your mud pies as they say......for me this place is becoming less and less worth while all the time...........

You must have missed the posts where I was told that using the Getty's music in church is unacceptable because of their "associations". Or that a good bionically correct song can be ruined because of who sings/sang/wrote it.

All to point out that the "association" argument is pretty much ludicrous. Feel free to point that out the next time it is used to condemn CCM.

 

[Biker]

[quote author=Tarheel Baptist]
That's so gay!
[/quote] Yep Ozzy is in agreement LOL

Donny Osmond - Sharon Osbourne

 

[ALAYMAN]

This is why I don't go to the children's Christmas program.

Did you actually mean to set this up on a tee so well for me?


For when for the time ye ought to be teachers, ye have need that one teach you again which be the first principles of the oracles of God; and are become such as have need of milk, and not of strong meat.

But maybe you WERE implying that the CCM crowd needs to attend junior church until they learn to belly up to some real steak.

I thought the meat came in the sermon?!?!?  ???

Naw, you ain't reading the FFF enough.  It comes around the breakfast table, giving a glass of cold water, through CCM, and a variety of other venues.

You leave out the fact that the breakfast table = church to some people.
On Easter they use the good China.....

If these folks are from the traditional church then I'd go house church zany too.

Easter Invite

 

[subllibrm]

Here is a traditional non-CCM song.  Surely no one could have complaints about this well-known song:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ieYwnZoNIVU

(Except for the spelling, perhaps...)

Well, there goes the associations argument! 

only in your backwards mind mr bill bus.... .... where it never had a hope of fitting into or surviving in the first place..... comparisons of that nature don;t serve ether side..... and only encourages further and even more ludicrous comparisons..........  but do carry on with your mud pies as they say......for me this place is becoming less and less worth while all the time...........

You must have missed the posts where I was told that using the Getty's music in church is unacceptable because of their "associations". Or that a good bionically correct song can be ruined because of who sings/sang/wrote it.

All to point out that the "association" argument is pretty much ludicrous. Feel free to point that out the next time it is used to condemn CCM.

i did miss that post...... but either way..... i have no idea who the "gettys" are or who they are "associated" with..... and even if i did know i still wouldn;t be inclined to follow them or become a fan.........like i said before....  i don;t like prerecorded music being used in church period.... and i especially don;t like it when it's played from a dvd and the performer is displayed on a screen singing it..... so regardless of what the "gettys" sang i wouldn;t be likely to enjoy it or feel in the least bit "triggered" to worship.... (whatever that means).... by hearing it or seeing it.......

but is the "associations" argument ludicrous?...... it;s the reason i said i wouldn;t want to hear the elvis presley version of amazing grace sung in church... even if he came in by space ship or whatever.. : and sang it himself...... i like the song and even have it on cd.... but mr presley was a professional entertainer.... and church worship is not about being entertained by professionals..... hence the reason i and my friends refused to take part in our former churches plans to introduce hula dancing into church....... we told them if they wanted to have it in a service we didn;t attend and left us out of it that was fine......but if they included it in all services we would refuse to attend and would probably then leave the church....... and we did.... only not over that issue.......... we left over the other issue related to the video web posted........ :-\

btw.... on the other hand... if mr presley was a member of my church and wanted to come in and sing amazing grace with the rest of us as part of the congregation.. (like just another member of the church)... then i wouldn;t be against it at all........... living where i do i have actually attended church with some very famous people that all of you would know the names and faces of..... i never saw them stand up to give a demonstration of their art or what it was that made them famous either....in fact... nobody even took special notice of them....... when they are in church they are there to worship and serve God as a part of the congregation.... not show off as the star performer of the day.....

Pre-recorded?

We "use" their music. Our ensemble plays instruments and sing along as a congregation. With the blessed wealth of musical talent we have I can't imagine anyone ever suggesting we sing along to a tape or that we just sit and watch a video of someone else singing a song for a worship service. Anyway, I was told here that the Gettys (Keith and Kristyn, Irish singer/songwriters who write beautiful worship music) have association issues that make it at best a grey area to "use" their music. You note that you are not familiar with them. If you were to walk into my church and we were singing a Getty song, my guess is that you would not think CCM and certainly would not be distracted by any "association". I would suspect that you would enjoy the song and be blessed by the depth of the message.

So I will ask you to take a look at them singing their own songs and judge for yourself if they are indicative of all that is "wrong" with CCM.

Keith & Kristyn Getty "The Power of the Cross"

Keith & Kristyn Getty "In Christ Alone"

The only association I see is their association with the risen Christ and their love and devotion to Him! Give them a try. I think you will like what yo hear.

Bill

Ps. I usually don't "watch" youtube videos. I start them and go do something else (like type up a post for the FFF) while listening to the music.

 

[.tim]

This weekend I listened to my copy of "Hymns for the Christian Life" by Keith & Kristyn Getty

Many of the songs had the elements of modern CCM music ... with an Irish slant. In no way was this a conservative hymn CD for IFB Churches.

It is a CD that should/will appeal to a wide audience of Christian & religious people - maybe this is a more correct definition of CCM.

 

[subllibrm]

This weekend I listened to my copy of "Hymns for the Christian Life" by Keith & Kristyn Getty

Many of the songs had the elements of modern CCM music

I don't know what that means but okay.

... with an Irish slant.

I like celtic music! "Be Thou My Vision" in a celtic style is wonderful!

In no way was this a conservative hymn CD for IFB Churches.

I can't imagine that they have such in mind when they write anything. Why would they?

It is a CD that should/will appeal to a wide audience of Christian & religious people - maybe this is a more correct definition of CCM.

This brings us back to the idea that if it is good for the masses it must be bad for IFB. More evidence of spiritual snobbery in the world of IFB.

 

[.tim]

This weekend I listened to my copy of "Hymns for the Christian Life" by Keith & Kristyn Getty

Many of the songs had the elements of modern CCM music

I don't know what that means but okay.

... with an Irish slant.

I like celtic music! "Be Thou My Vision" in a celtic style is wonderful!

In no way was this a conservative hymn CD for IFB Churches.

I can't imagine that they have such in mind when they write anything. Why would they?

It is a CD that should/will appeal to a wide audience of Christian & religious people - maybe this is a more correct definition of CCM.

This brings us back to the idea that if it is good for the masses it must be bad for IFB. More evidence of spiritual snobbery in the world of IFB.

I would suggest you get onto MySpace and listen to the CD for free - just for an audio sampling of what I am talking about.

Last I checked eating is good for masses - and IFB enjoy that for sure.

 

[subllibrm]

What is coming through this thread is that those critical of CCM do not know the artists or the content of their music.

Which proves that propaganda works! 

Tell them that various body parts will fall off if they even listen to even two measures of it and you will never have to worry that they might find out you are blowing smoke up their culottes.

 

[.tim]

What is coming through this thread is that those critical of CCM do not know the artists or the content of their music.

Exactly.

 

[subllibrm]

yet in the same post, where subllibrm posted those videos, he said that;s exactly what his congregation does..... he said the gettys have written a lot of music specifically for congregational singing and that his church uses them....... then why didn;t he post an example of that?.... ???..... 

Since he isn't me I can't see how he could possibly answer this question but I will be glad to.

We don't video record ourselves singing as a congregation so there is nothing to post. If such a thing existed, I would have no problem sharing it.

 

[subllibrm]

What is coming through this thread is that those critical of CCM do not know the artists or the content of their music.

Which proves that propaganda works! 

Tell them that various body parts will fall off if they even listen to even two measures of it and you will never have to worry that they might find out you are blowing smoke up their culottes.

wow... what a pleasant visual image that statement brings to mind.....  : ......... i have said this before..... (and obviously you weren;t paying attention..)... but it;s comments like that.... from proponents of ccm... that work overtime to keep those opposed to ccm convinced the entire genre of music has no redeeming value.......

i don;t know who that statement was directed at.....(if anyone in particular)........ but if it was directed at me.... (and i;m assuming it was since i;m the only female opponent to ccm currently in the discussion)..... i might remind you that i do not... and have not ever ... worn cullottes.... ....i don;t even own any...... i was given a pair by an ifb sister in law once and promptly gave them back......... i;m the person on the old fff that nicknamed them cluglottes.... remember?......... and if you remember further you might also recall that in these years of conflict between hyper fundies and those who have walked away from them...  i have actually been your ally against many of the things hyper fundies say they believe far more often than i have ever been in agreement with them against you......... so again.... like i said in my post to admin..... are you trying to win converts or arguments?.............. because in my opinion you are losing both here.........

Umm, it was directed at the type of preachers who use propaganda about music (and pants on women, hence the culottes reference) to keep their people in line. You never even crossed my mind when I typed my response. I am sorry that you took it that way.

 

[.tim]

yet in the same post, where subllibrm posted those videos, he said that;s exactly what his congregation does..... he said the gettys have written a lot of music specifically for congregational singing and that his church uses them....... then why didn;t he post an example of that?.... ???..... 

Since he isn't me I can't see how he could possibly answer this question but I will be glad to.

We don't video record ourselves singing as a congregation so there is nothing to post. If such a thing existed, I would have no problem sharing it.

it was meant as a question anyone... who agreed with you... and might have a video of a congregation singing a getty song... or even a recording of one... could answer.......... i have lots of recordings of congregations singing hymns like the ones my church uses....... and even a few that are in hawaiian sung at my church by the congregation...... granted they probably don;t rank very high on the entertainment scale..... it;s one of those things you would have to be there in person and singing along to appreciate...... which is.... as i said before.... what i believe church worship music is all about........

http://youtu.be/JnXv2gAfPpE

My parents Church sing this song all the time. The above video is similar in how it might sound.