For CCM? Please convince us FROM Scripture alone

Mathew Ward said:
FSSL said:
tobyMac: So speak Life, speak Life.

NIV Prov 18: The tongue (speech) has the power of life.


Your turn. You said it is a biblical concept, now pony up some Bible, IF you can.





Instead of pony up bible, you should have said oops, my bad the reference was proverbs 18:21 not 18:25.

A soft answer...

Seriously, he cannot even admit to making an error even a silly typo.  Instead of what you said, he simply changes it to Pr 18:

Ahhh OK. Now that he has admitted it...though I pointed out this error several times....again, who doesn't read who's posts?
 
FSSL said:
Mathew Ward said:
FSSL said:
tobyMac: So speak Life, speak Life.

NIV Prov 18: The tongue (speech) has the power of life.


Your turn. You said it is a biblical concept, now pony up some Bible, IF you can.

Instead of pony up bible, you should have said oops, my bad the reference was proverbs 18:21 not 18:25.

A soft answer...

Thank you Mathew... I see the typo. Sorry for the confusion on that post.

Holy Mole... do you see it in Proverbs 18:21?

Yes,  I see it and saw it when you first posted it....but you seem to miss has been stated several times...it is a biblical but it's not a truth exclusive to scripture...again and again...
 
Holy Mole said:
FSSL said:
Mathew Ward said:
FSSL said:
tobyMac: So speak Life, speak Life.

NIV Prov 18: The tongue (speech) has the power of life.


Your turn. You said it is a biblical concept, now pony up some Bible, IF you can.

Instead of pony up bible, you should have said oops, my bad the reference was proverbs 18:21 not 18:25.

A soft answer...

Thank you Mathew... I see the typo. Sorry for the confusion on that post.

Holy Mole... do you see it in Proverbs 18:21?

Yes,  I see it and saw it when you first posted it....but you miss what's been stated several times...it is a biblical but it's not a truth exclusive to scripture...

Please reread my very first post on the subject. I quite clearly state that. In fact, you can see it in post 39. I say that it may not be an exclusive truth, but it absolutely is biblical truth.

Phew! Sorry for the typo.
 
aleshanee said:
wow!... you even twist and misconstrue your own words to make them say something other than what you said...... i restated exactly what you posted ..... if you can;t be honest enough to admit that when it;s right in front of you in black and white... then there is no point in continuing this discussion with you...........

I placed the correction to your post in bold red letters.

and you need to take a serious look at proverbs 18-21 yourself.... specifically the second half of the verse...... .....have fun pontificating on your little forum ...... i;m sick of trying to reason with an arrogant dishonest blowhard.......

Seriously? You rebuke me using Prov 18:21 and then in the same breath, you call me an "arrogant dishonest blowhard?" It is apparent that you have a log in your own eye. I will work on my "log" if you work on yours.

I WANT to discuss the scriptures that you all say that are evident in the song "speak life," but I keep getting the run around.
 
admin said:
Not ONE person, including you, have acknowledged that Proverbs 18:25 says the same thing as tobyMac's song.

Yes I acknowledge that is true. (I think I already have.)
Will you acknowledge that John 15:17 says "These things I command you, that ye love one another." which is the same thing as the Barney song? (yes, of course it is different love but we are focusing on the actual words not the intent of the author)
Will you acknowledge that Proverbs 18:24 says "A man that hath friends must shew himself friendly: and there is a friend that sticketh closer than a brother." which is the message of the Toy Story song "You've got a friend in me"?

Lots of songs have "Christian themes" but are not Christian - why do you ignore this point?

Check out the song "You Raise me Up". If that were written by a CCM artist then I bet you would consider it Christian. Or what about Lady Antebellum's "I was Here" in which the chorus states:
"I wanna do something that matters
Say something different
Something that sets the whole world on its ear
I wanna do something better
With the time I've been given
And I wanna try
To touch a few hearts in this life
Leave nothing less
Than something that says "I was here"

I mean Christians are supposed to make a difference in the world right? touch a  few hearts?

I've stated before but I will reiterate that I like CCM and see nothing wrong with it as a whole. However, I protest so-called "Christian songs" that are not clearly Christian when you read the lyrics.
 
At this point, I fail to see how any of these replies are moving the conversation forward. It's just a bunch of people repeating themselves and insulting each other. Here's a summary as I see it:

FSSL thinks that CCM (and "secular" music) can have a place in church. It depends on the cultural context of the church, the context of the song, and the purpose of the inclusion. FSSL has primarily been focused on the music of TobyMac although others have provided other examples. He has also mis-cited a passage repeatedly that he is using to make his case which others have called him on. In his corner on this issue are subl, MW, SC, Ransom, and myself generally agree with him in regard to his stance on CCM although some of those have had issues with some of FSSL's other arguments.

aleshanee believes CCM has no place in the church. She's not trying to dictate what other churches do, but she has strong moral objections to its inclusion, largely due to her own experience with music and its inclusion in church. She had very little knowledge and was, at first, criticizing TobyMac from a position of ignorance, although she has been doing more research and is now speaking from a more knowledgeable position. She has DD, HM, and Alayman in her corner, although Alayman has stated sympathies with the next group.

Frag, Bruh, Bob(?) and IP are completely opposed to CCM in church services and will claim that CCM music is sinful. Of course, bruh has made a ridiculous comparison between marijuana and CCM, IP thinks being naked is sinful, and Frag happily emphasizes the "X" in IFBx.



Now there could be another 45 pages of text written about this, but I'm pretty sure everyone knows where everyone else stands. My vote is that we let this thread die unless someone has something new to add to the conversation.
 
rsc2a said:
At this point, I fail to see how any of these replies are moving the conversation forward. It's just a bunch of people repeating themselves and insulting each other. Here's a summary as I see it:

FSSL thinks that CCM (and "secular" music) can have a place in church. It depends on the cultural context of the church, the context of the song, and the purpose of the inclusion. FSSL has primarily been focused on the music of TobyMac although others have provided other examples. He has also mis-cited a passage repeatedly that he is using to make his case which others have called him on. In his corner on this issue are subl, MW, SC, Ransom, and myself generally agree with him in regard to his stance on CCM although some of those have had issues with some of FSSL's other arguments.

aleshanee believes CCM has no place in the church. She's not trying to dictate what other churches do, but she has strong moral objections to its inclusion, largely due to her own experience with music and its inclusion in church. She had very little knowledge and was, at first, criticizing TobyMac from a position of ignorance, although she has been doing more research and is now speaking from a more knowledgeable position. She has DD, HM, and Alayman in her corner, although Alayman has stated sympathies with the next group.

Frag, Bruh, Bob(?) and IP are completely opposed to CCM in church services and will claim that CCM music is sinful. Of course, bruh has made a ridiculous comparison between marijuana and CCM, IP thinks being naked is sinful, and Frag happily emphasizes the "X" in IFBx.



Now there could be another 45 pages of text written about this, but I'm pretty sure everyone knows where everyone else stands. My vote is that we let this thread die unless someone has something new to add to the conversation.

What does the Bible say?
 
.tim said:
rsc2a said:
At this point, I fail to see how any of these replies are moving the conversation forward. It's just a bunch of people repeating themselves and insulting each other. Here's a summary as I see it:

FSSL thinks that CCM (and "secular" music) can have a place in church. It depends on the cultural context of the church, the context of the song, and the purpose of the inclusion. FSSL has primarily been focused on the music of TobyMac although others have provided other examples. He has also mis-cited a passage repeatedly that he is using to make his case which others have called him on. In his corner on this issue are subl, MW, SC, Ransom, and myself generally agree with him in regard to his stance on CCM although some of those have had issues with some of FSSL's other arguments.

aleshanee believes CCM has no place in the church. She's not trying to dictate what other churches do, but she has strong moral objections to its inclusion, largely due to her own experience with music and its inclusion in church. She had very little knowledge and was, at first, criticizing TobyMac from a position of ignorance, although she has been doing more research and is now speaking from a more knowledgeable position. She has DD, HM, and Alayman in her corner, although Alayman has stated sympathies with the next group.

Frag, Bruh, Bob(?) and IP are completely opposed to CCM in church services and will claim that CCM music is sinful. Of course, bruh has made a ridiculous comparison between marijuana and CCM, IP thinks being naked is sinful, and Frag happily emphasizes the "X" in IFBx.



Now there could be another 45 pages of text written about this, but I'm pretty sure everyone knows where everyone else stands. My vote is that we let this thread die unless someone has something new to add to the conversation.

What does the Bible say?

Ephesians 5:19  Speaking to yourselves in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing and making melody in your heart to the Lord;
 
[quote author=.tim]What does the Bible say?[/quote]

Eat, drink and be merry for tomorrow you die.
 
What does the Bible say?

1 Corinthians 14:8  For if the trumpet give an uncertain sound, who shall prepare himself to the battle?


;)

 
15 Let the peace of Christ rule in your hearts, since as members of one body you were called to peace. And be thankful. 16 Let the message of Christ dwell among you richly as you teach and admonish one another with all wisdom through psalms, hymns, and songs from the Spirit, singing to God with gratitude in your hearts. 17 And whatever you do, whether in word or deed, do it all in the name of the Lord Jesus, giving thanks to God the Father through him. Colossians 3:15
 
He put a new song in my mouth, a song of praise to our God. Many will see and fear, and put their trust in the LORD. Psalm 40:3

A NEW song :D
 
ALAYMAN said:
What does the Bible say?

1 Corinthians 14:8  For if the trumpet give an uncertain sound, who shall prepare himself to the battle?


;)

What does a clear trumpet sound, calling men to battle, have to do with CCM?
 
.tim said:
What does a clear trumpet sound, calling men to battle, have to do with CCM?

Do you actually think that I Cor 14:8 has something to do with war (battle)?


Or could it have something to do with orderly distinct communication of the gospel in worship?
 
ALAYMAN said:
.tim said:
What does a clear trumpet sound, calling men to battle, have to do with CCM?

Do you actually think that I Cor 14:8 has something to do with war (battle)?


Or could it have something to do with orderly distinct communication of the gospel in worship?

A few verses back helps to clarify things, "... if I come to you and speak in tongues, what good will I be to you, unless I bring you some revelation or knowledge or prophecy or word of instruction?"

An unclear, or foreign sounding battle cry won't call men to battle very well. Just as unclear or foreign "tongues" don't help much in Church.
 
.tim said:
A few verses back helps to clarify things, "... if I come to you and speak in tongues, what good will I be to you, unless I bring you some revelation or knowledge or prophecy or word of instruction?"

ummm, yeah, you echoed my rhetorical second question above.  Clarity of communication in the proclamation of the gospel is paramount (not the use of gifts, tongues, feelings, emotions, etc).  Your question essentially was "what does I Cor 14:8 have to do with CCM in worship?", and my response is that <some> of that junk makes it impossible to distinguish what is being communicated in the words.  If the gospel cannot be understood (whether in song, or sermon) then it is of no use, which was Paul's point.
 
ALAYMAN said:
.tim said:
A few verses back helps to clarify things, "... if I come to you and speak in tongues, what good will I be to you, unless I bring you some revelation or knowledge or prophecy or word of instruction?"

ummm, yeah, you echoed my rhetorical second question above.  Clarity of communication in the proclamation of the gospel is paramount (not the use of gifts, tongues, feelings, emotions, etc).  Your question essentially was "what does I Cor 14:8 have to do with CCM in worship?", and my response is that <some> of that junk makes it impossible to distinguish what is being communicated in the words.  If the gospel cannot be understood (whether in song, or sermon) then it is of no use, which was Paul's point.

Clearly you realize this doesn't forbid using CCM in our Church services, right? Much of the CCM songs used in Churches all across this country are very clear in what is being communicated. Or, are you simply stating that CCM with clear words is okay in Church?
 
What does the Bible say?

Deuteronomy 22:5
The woman shall not wear that which pertaineth unto a man, neither shall a man put on a woman’s garment; for all who do so are abomination unto the Lord thy God.  ;D
 
Bruh said:
What does the Bible say?

Deuteronomy 22:5
The woman shall not wear that which pertaineth unto a man, neither shall a man put on a woman’s garment; for all who do so are abomination unto the Lord thy God.  ;D

It's a wonder God don't blow us off the face of the earth ...
 
Bruh said:
.tim said:
Bruh said:
What does the Bible say?

Deuteronomy 22:5
The woman shall not wear that which pertaineth unto a man, neither shall a man put on a woman’s garment; for all who do so are abomination unto the Lord thy God.  ;D

It's a wonder God don't blow us off the face of the earth ...

Why? Because women wear tailor made pants tailored for WOMEN.

I was speaking from the viewpoint of a legalistic standpoint ... I should have made it clear it was in jest.

But, seriously, if the NIV is soooo bad, or pants on a woman is soooo bad .... where is the lighting and hard core wrath from God?
 
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