Former fundys, some of who post here.....ouchie.

[ALAYMAN]

Been awhile since I've posted, and hope all is doing well.  Came across an article while doing some sermon research and it reminded me too much of some of the folks on here, so I figured I'd share:

The Christian equivalents are the autobiographies of those who have grown up in fundamentalist/evangelical households and have later gone on to repudiate the faith of their childhood, some by loosening up or rejecting various traditional doctrines, some by becoming Catholics, some by abandoning any profession of Christianity whatsoever.  The tale is often told as a subplot of a more direct piece of scholarship where a bad experience of evangelicalism/fundamentalism is the launch pad for a more serious intellectual critique of aspects of the movement as a whole.  Sometimes, however, the critique is part of a direct piece of autobiography.  Frank Schaeffer's brilliant Crazy for God and its disappointing sequel would fit into this category.  Published authors represent the merest tip of the icebergs: countless blogs and (pardon the expression) conversations would seem to indicate that the dynamic of reaction against an evangelical/fundamentalist upbringing is powerful in the religious development of many.  To repeat a phrase I have used before: one big advantage of not growing up in a Christian home is that, whatever else has screwed you up, it is not the religion of your parents

.....

Thus, the emergent leaders hang out and have 'conversations' with those who like having conversations and dislike settling on any truth claim as exclusive; all others who do not share this position they dismiss as nutty, distasteful or wicked.  The conversation is the imposed norm; all else is deviant. Meanwhile, those who were brought up in evangelical or fundamentalist homes, for some reason (whether moral, intellectual or simply personal) decide that they can no longer believe what their parents or schoolteachers told them; and they then assume that all those who do not see the problems they see with the faith are stupid or in denial or, once again, wicked and in it just for the power it brings.

....

I am sorry that your Christian parents or schoolteachers screwed you up with their bad teaching; I am sorry that you can no longer believe the simple catechetical faith that you were once taught; I am sorry that the Bible seems like little more than a confused mish-mash of contradictory myths and endlessly deferred meaning.  But that you struggle with doubts does not mean that those who do not struggle in the same way are simply weak-minded, in denial or bare-faced liars.  Nor, more importantly, does the mere fact that you have doubts mean that those doubts are necessarily legitimate and well-grounded.  Doubting on your part does not constitute a crisis of faith on mine.

http://www.reformation21.org/counterpoints/doubting-on-your-part-does-not-constitute-a-crisis-of-faith-on-mine.php

Well,  that sure was a refreshing repudiation of the squishiness that often pervades GenX ,  Millenial, and sometimes Former Fundy  Flipflop thinking promoted amongst websites we all know and love.

 

[Route_70]

Been awhile since I've posted, and hope all is doing well.  Came across an article while doing some sermon research and it reminded me too much of some of the folks on here, so I figured I'd share ...

Route_70 made me do it ...

.....

I am here purely for entertainment purposes ...

....

I apologize for all my shortcomings ...

Well,  that sure was a refreshing repudiation of the squishiness that often pervades GenX ,  Millenial, and sometimes Former Fundy  Flipflop thinking promoted amongst websites we all know and love.

At least you can give me credit for my quotes.

 

[ALAYMAN]

lol, R70, other than proving that hit dogs do howl when a rock is thrown in their pack, I hope all is well, and that you repent and believe.


By the by, I may question your motives <in part> on your "Principal" expose, but unlike many here, I think such questionable behaviors should be uncovered.

 

[Route_70]

By the by, I may question your motives <in part> on your "Principal" expose, but unlike many here, I think such questionable behaviors should be uncovered.

There is one other "questionable" behavior that is left to be revealed to and by the legal establishment: the massive cover-up that existed for several years.  The pastor and deacons; their wives; secretaries; teachers; and students have known for years of some of the unacceptable behavior yet said nothing.  Then when someone finally began to bark loudly [this dog at whom you love to throw stones], they went into major lock-down mode, threatening with bodily harm and public vilification.  And that will be their undoing.  It is now a documented fat that they made a concerted effort to stop any attempt at reporting the child abuse.

So you see, it is one's motive, nor one's method, but one's moxie that truly gets the job done.

"Faith without works is worthless [Route_70 version]."

 

[Smellin Coffee]

Doubting on Your Part Does Not Constitute a Crisis of Faith on Mine

Title says it all: "We are being attacked by those who have left our belief system but that isn't going to change me."

This is simply a polite way of displaying a martyr complex; a subtle manipulation to keep those of faith segregated from those who doubt.

 

[ALAYMAN]

This is simply a polite way of displaying a martyr complex;

You couldn't be further from the truth.  I lament that a people have forgotten that a nation whose God is the Lord shall be blessed.  Instead we seem to have a country that is running headlong into idolatry, under the guise of overthrowing the yoke of institutionalism.

... a subtle manipulation to keep those of faith segregated from those who doubt.

No, it's an attempt to call "those of faith" back to an orthodox "faith of their fathers".

 

[rsc2a]

Of course, the author doesn't say anything about how to address some of the deeply rooted problems that are within these systems.

 

[The Rogue Tomato]

Thus, the emergent leaders hang out and have 'conversations' with those who like having conversations and dislike settling on any truth claim as exclusive; all others who do not share this position they dismiss as nutty, distasteful or wicked.  The conversation is the imposed norm; all else is deviant. Meanwhile, those who were brought up in evangelical or fundamentalist homes, for some reason (whether moral, intellectual or simply personal) decide that they can no longer believe what their parents or schoolteachers told them; and they then assume that all those who do not see the problems they see with the faith are stupid or in denial or, once again, wicked and in it just for the power it brings.

Not all conversations should be treated with disdain.  There are some things about which we can ONLY have conversations, because both sides of the argument can produce proof texts that seem to support their positions.  There are some things that are absolute truths, too.  If you reject the fact that Jesus is Lord and prefer a conversation about it to that fundamental truth, then, well...

Also, from my view, not everyone is meant to be a believer.  So no amount of coaxing or upbringing is going to change that.  And no amount of horrible coaxing and horrible upbringing can prevent the elect from becoming believers.

 

[ALAYMAN]

Of course, the author doesn't say anything about how to address some of the deeply rooted problems that are within these systems.

By implication,  I think he'd say avoid bad teaching, believe the simple catechetical faith that you were once taught, not think that the Bible seems like little more than a confused mish-mash of contradictory myths and endlessly deferred meaning.

Not all conversations should be treated with disdain.  There are some things about which we can ONLY have conversations, because both sides of the argument can produce proof texts that seem to support their positions.  There are some things that are absolute truths, too.  If you reject the fact that Jesus is Lord and prefer a conversation about it to that fundamental truth, then, well...

Essentially, I agree, but the "conversation"(al) motif he alludes to is the well-worn method of POMOs to see nuance far more often than is reasonable, painting with shades of gray where black and white is more appropriate.

 

[rsc2a]

Of course, the author doesn't say anything about how to address some of the deeply rooted problems that are within these systems.

By implication,  I think he'd say avoid bad teaching, believe the simple catechetical faith that you were once taught...

Like the King Jimmy is the only real Bible, prepare for the Jesus fly-by, and drinking alcohol is a straight path to hell?

 

[T-Bone]

lol, R70, other than proving that hit dogs do howl when a rock is thrown in their pack, I hope all is well, and that you repent and believe.


By the by, I may question your motives <in part> on your "Principal" expose, but unlike many here, I think such questionable behaviors should be uncovered.

Oh I believe many if not most want those kind of behaviors uncovered...the problem with Rt 70...his writings do nothing of the sort. He is a no name posted telling us about a bunch of no named people in a no named church & school...so it is hard to care what he says to make himself look better in an unknown situation.

 

[Route_70]

Oh I believe many if not most want those kind of behaviors uncovered...the problem with Rt 70...his writings do nothing of the sort.

Look, T-bonehead, I stated very clearly in the OP that the principal has not officially been charged -- hence the cryptic nature of my post.  He is under investigation: his cell phones were confiscated, along with his computer and I-pad.  The FB post in which I exposed him, the church, and the school was likewise cryptic.  I never mentioned a name -- not the name of the church or the school or any of those involved.  YET, there are those who read my posts, and those morons who were implicated actually commented on my cryptic FB post, thus exposing themselves!

It was to my original cryptic FB post that was being much vilified by the likes of you that one of the girls spoke out and declared that I was "telling the truth" even though cryptically.  It was MY CRYPTIC FB POST that exposed a child molester, and without which the man would still be operating.

What was that you said now?

 

[Smellin Coffee]

Of course, the author doesn't say anything about how to address some of the deeply rooted problems that are within these systems.

Which is why I mentioned the martyr complex.

 

[Smellin Coffee]

Of course, the author doesn't say anything about how to address some of the deeply rooted problems that are within these systems.

By implication,  I think he'd say avoid bad teaching, believe the simple catechetical faith that you were once taught, not think that the Bible seems like little more than a confused mish-mash of contradictory myths and endlessly deferred meaning.

And yet when one's primary system of the Bible was presented to them out of context and the pastor's hermeneutical view was the absolute and only way to decipher God's truth, when that gets exposed, why wouldn't the wounded soul come to the conclusion of 'mish-mash'? You are telling him that rather than start a new cake, take the marble one he was given and pull out the chocolate parts to which he is allergic, which gives him nothing more than a pile of crumbs. Then he is criticizing for not digesting the crumb which he still questions contains contamination.

The author presented a problem, no solution so I took it as whining, and "us versus them" ideal which isn't meant to promote healing or show the love of Christ to those who are disillusioned.

 

[T-Bone]

Oh I believe many if not most want those kind of behaviors uncovered...the problem with Rt 70...his writings do nothing of the sort.

Look, T-bonehead, I stated very clearly in the OP that the principal has not officially been charged -- hence the cryptic nature of my post.  He is under investigation: his cell phones were confiscated, along with his computer and I-pad.  The FB post in which I exposed him, the church, and the school was likewise cryptic.  I never mentioned a name -- not the name of the church or the school or any of those involved.  YET, there are those who read my posts, and those morons who were implicated actually commented on my cryptic FB post, thus exposing themselves!

It was to my original cryptic FB post that was being much vilified by the likes of you that one of the girls spoke out and declared that I was "telling the truth" even though cryptically.  It was MY CRYPTIC FB POST that exposed a child molester, and without which the man would still be operating.

What was that you said now?

Read my post again, real slowly,  if you didn't get it the first time.

 

[Route_70]

Read my post again, real slowly,  if you didn't get it the first time.

I can't.  It is not legible.

 

[T-Bone]

Read my post again, real slowly,  if you didn't get it the first time.

I can't.  It is not legible.

Your lack of reading comprehension is not my problem.

 

[Route_70]

Your lack of reading comprehension is not my problem.

I apologize for all my shortcomings.

 

[ALAYMAN]

Like the King Jimmy is the only real Bible, prepare for the Jesus fly-by, and drinking alcohol is a straight path to hell?

You think the author of the article is advocating a premillennial, abstenionist, KJVonly position???  Wow, you really do some serious hermeneutical gymnastics when you grasp for straws of justification for your lame analysis.

 

[ALAYMAN]

Oh I believe many if not most want those kind of behaviors uncovered...the problem with Rt 70...his writings do nothing of the sort. He is a no name posted telling us about a bunch of no named people in a no named church & school...so it is hard to care what he says to make himself look better in an unknown situation.

Like I said, I have reasonable suspicion of his motives, but ultimately I'm glad the situation was exposed.  I know I'm preaching to the choir when I say this to you, but in the Old Testament God even used pagan idolaters to bring his wayward people to a place of repentance and contrition.