Former fundys, some of who post here.....ouchie.

[ALAYMAN]

And yet when one's primary system of the Bible was presented to them out of context and the pastor's hermeneutical view was the absolute and only way to decipher God's truth, when that gets exposed, why wouldn't the wounded soul come to the conclusion of 'mish-mash'?

There's no merit in jumping from the theological frying pan into the doctrinal fire  That just seem like rationalization of continued wallowing in error.

The author presented a problem, no solution so I took it as whining, and "us versus them" ideal which isn't meant to promote healing or show the love of Christ to those who are disillusioned.

There's a spectrum of how to treat differing groups of people.  Yes, those who are willing to be instructed should be treated with gentleness, but heretics, apostates, and willfully obstinate fall into a different category.  Paul urged us to mark them, and even have no fellowship with them.  Pretty harsh words, but nonetheless appropriate for the right context.

 

[Smellin Coffee]

There's no merit in jumping from the frying pan into the fire, but only rationalization of continued wallowing in error.

I don't mean this in a snarky way but I have no idea what you are alluding to.

There's a spectrum of how to treat differing groups of people.  Yes, those who are willing to be instructed should be treated with gentleness, but heretics, apostates, and willfully obstinate fall into a different category.  Paul urged us to make them, and even have no fellowship with them.  Pretty harsh words, but nonetheless appropriate for the right context.

Are they enemies? "Love your enemies." Are they disciples? "They will know you are my disciples because of your love for one another." Are they tares? "Let them (wheat and tares) grow together until harvest." I think Jesus had a different idea in mind to treat people. Plus, we are talking about wounded people, not simply rebellious.

 

[ALAYMAN]

I don't mean this in a snarky way but I have no idea what you are alluding to.

There are many good traits about you SC, and I'd never suspect you of snarkiness.  A very sincere dude you are.  I amended my post prior to your response to add a little clarity.  What I simply meant was that the abuse that people suffer(ed) at the hands of authoritarian cult-like hyper-fundies shouldn't serve as an excuse to run to the POMO squishy folk, or worse, the agnostics and atheist's arms.

[quote author=SC]Are they enemies? "Love your enemies." Are they disciples? "They will know you are my disciples because of your love for one another." Are they tares? "Let them (wheat and tares) grow together until harvest." I think Jesus had a different idea in mind to treat people. Plus, we are talking about wounded people, not simply rebellious.
[/quote]

Yes, the Rob Bells and Brian McClarens certainly can be enemies of the gospel.  All that aside, when you dismiss large chunks of the New Testament aside on the whim of following essentially only the gospel accounts it is difficult to have a theological discussion. 

 

[rsc2a]

Like the King Jimmy is the only real Bible, prepare for the Jesus fly-by, and drinking alcohol is a straight path to hell?

You think the author of the article is advocating a premillennial, abstenionist, KJVonly position???  Wow, you really do some serious hermeneutical gymnastics when you grasp for straws of justification for your lame analysis.

My point was very simple. For many, the "simple catechetical faith that you were once taught" was nonsense. He doesn't differentiate and instead treats everyone who sees problems with these traditions as an enemy.

 

[rsc2a]

[quote author=ALAYMAN]Yes, those who are willing to be instructed should be treated with gentleness, but heretics, apostates, and willfully obstinate fall into a different category.  Paul urged us to mark them, and even have no fellowship with them.  Pretty harsh words, but nonetheless appropriate for the right context.
[/quote]

Like people who deny the Church Universal?

 

[ALAYMAN]

Like the King Jimmy is the only real Bible, prepare for the Jesus fly-by, and drinking alcohol is a straight path to hell?

You think the author of the article is advocating a premillennial, abstenionist, KJVonly position???  Wow, you really do some serious hermeneutical gymnastics when you grasp for straws of justification for your lame analysis.

My point was very simple. For many, the "simple catechetical faith that you were once taught" was nonsense. He doesn't differentiate and instead treats everyone who sees problems with these traditions as an enemy.

I think, again, you state too much about his beliefs.  There's a definite target group in his sights, and it ain't as you portrayed....an angry fundamentalist who don't want to get along with anybody but those who believe in wearing coulottes.

 

[ALAYMAN]

[quote author=ALAYMAN]Yes, those who are willing to be instructed should be treated with gentleness, but heretics, apostates, and willfully obstinate fall into a different category.  Paul urged us to mark them, and even have no fellowship with them.  Pretty harsh words, but nonetheless appropriate for the right context.

Like people who deny the Church Universal?
[/quote]

More like anti-authority house-church types.

 

[rsc2a]

Like the King Jimmy is the only real Bible, prepare for the Jesus fly-by, and drinking alcohol is a straight path to hell?

You think the author of the article is advocating a premillennial, abstenionist, KJVonly position???  Wow, you really do some serious hermeneutical gymnastics when you grasp for straws of justification for your lame analysis.

My point was very simple. For many, the "simple catechetical faith that you were once taught" was nonsense. He doesn't differentiate and instead treats everyone who sees problems with these traditions as an enemy.

I think, again, you state too much about his beliefs.  There's a definite target group in his sights, and it ain't as you portrayed....an angry fundamentalist who don't want to get along with anybody but those who believe in wearing coulottes.

Let me try this again...

"He doesn't differentiate and instead treats everyone who sees problems with these traditions as an enemy."

All it takes is a brief survey through this very forum to find plenty of people who hold to the things I mentioned as a fundamental of the faith. Ergo, people who have walked away from this nonsense are vilified in the excerpts you provided.

 

[rsc2a]

[quote author=ALAYMAN]Yes, those who are willing to be instructed should be treated with gentleness, but heretics, apostates, and willfully obstinate fall into a different category.  Paul urged us to mark them, and even have no fellowship with them.  Pretty harsh words, but nonetheless appropriate for the right context.

Like people who deny the Church Universal?

More like anti-authority house-church types.[/quote]

Yeah...I must have missed that in the creeds. Was it before "one holy, catholic church" or after? And, as far as my being anti-authoritarian, I'm appealing to the creeds as an authority. Do I need to put that in plainer English?

 

[The Rogue Tomato]

[quote author=ALAYMAN]Yes, those who are willing to be instructed should be treated with gentleness, but heretics, apostates, and willfully obstinate fall into a different category.  Paul urged us to mark them, and even have no fellowship with them.  Pretty harsh words, but nonetheless appropriate for the right context.

Like people who deny the Church Universal?

More like anti-authority house-church types.
[/quote]

I'm very pro authority.  The authority is Jesus.  I'm against those who would attempt to usurp that authority.

 

[T-Bone]

Oh I believe many if not most want those kind of behaviors uncovered...the problem with Rt 70...his writings do nothing of the sort. He is a no name posted telling us about a bunch of no named people in a no named church & school...so it is hard to care what he says to make himself look better in an unknown situation.

Like I said, I have reasonable suspicion of his motives, but ultimately I'm glad the situation was exposed.  I know I'm preaching to the choir when I say this to you, but in the Old Testament God even used pagan idolaters to bring his wayward people to a place of repentance and contrition.

That is true...though when He used them He didn't excuse their wrongs. I know you know that ...just saying.

 

[Binaca Chugger]

Welcome back, Alayman!

Already you and the squirrel are going at it.  How have you not given us a good "obtuse" yet? 

 

[ALAYMAN]

Let me try this again...

"He doesn't differentiate and instead treats everyone who sees problems with these traditions as an enemy."

All it takes is a brief survey through this very forum to find plenty of people who hold to the things I mentioned as a fundamental of the faith. Ergo, people who have walked away from this nonsense are vilified in the excerpts you provided.

No, he's not indicting those who've left crazy funnymentalism for a pure mainstream evangelical sanity, but rather those who've went on from there to POMO.  Read much?

 

[Route_70]

That is true...though when He used them He didn't excuse their wrongs. I know you know that ...just saying.

In my case, what have I done that is wrong?

 

[Billy]

Article has some merit, but it skims over very serious issues in the fundy churches of our day.  I have a child that has left the faith and some of his beef with Christianity and the fundy church is very balanced and on point, others are just an excuses in blaming me how he was raised in order to appease the behavior of his deranged wife.

I could write a book about spiritual and physical abuse in fundy churches...it wouldn't help most that are blinded to the truth.

Just my musings on a Monday morning...

Welcome back Chief.

 

[subllibrm]

Oh I believe many if not most want those kind of behaviors uncovered...the problem with Rt 70...his writings do nothing of the sort. He is a no name posted telling us about a bunch of no named people in a no named church & school...so it is hard to care what he says to make himself look better in an unknown situation.

Like I said, I have reasonable suspicion of his motives, but ultimately I'm glad the situation was exposed.  I know I'm preaching to the choir when I say this to you, but in the Old Testament God even used pagan idolaters to bring his wayward people to a place of repentance and contrition.

I sure wish I knew what you guys were talking about.  ???

 

[subllibrm]

And yet when one's primary system of the Bible was presented to them out of context and the pastor's hermeneutical view was the absolute and only way to decipher God's truth, when that gets exposed, why wouldn't the wounded soul come to the conclusion of 'mish-mash'?

There's no merit in jumping from the theological frying pan into the doctrinal fire  That just seem like rationalization of continued wallowing in error.

The author presented a problem, no solution so I took it as whining, and "us versus them" ideal which isn't meant to promote healing or show the love of Christ to those who are disillusioned.

There's a spectrum of how to treat differing groups of people.  Yes, those who are willing to be instructed should be treated with gentleness, but heretics, apostates, and willfully obstinate fall into a different category.  Paul urged us to mark them, and even have no fellowship with them.  Pretty harsh words, but nonetheless appropriate for the right context.

FWIW I can understand Smellin's point. If you have be abused, misused, misled by someone with authority and you want to figure out truth from crumbs, finding someone that you can trust to help is a huge part of the puzzle. Your interaction is regarding doctrinal teachings but move the framework over to the realm of sexual abuse (no I am not making a equation, only a comparison). How does the abused find one who can be trusted to not abuse them further?

 

[subllibrm]

Like the King Jimmy is the only real Bible, prepare for the Jesus fly-by, and drinking alcohol is a straight path to hell?

You think the author of the article is advocating a premillennial, abstenionist, KJVonly position???  Wow, you really do some serious hermeneutical gymnastics when you grasp for straws of justification for your lame analysis.

My point was very simple. For many, the "simple catechetical faith that you were once taught" was nonsense. He doesn't differentiate and instead treats everyone who sees problems with these traditions as an enemy.

My view is that the most abusive were also those who opposed "catechetical" teaching. They made their own sets of "truths" (a new home-grown catechism if you will) and taught those. That of course devolved into long lists of do's and don'ts rather than right teachings about a living relationship with the Savior. Once these self anointed (see what I did there Frag?) popes then become the arbiter of truth, their followers lose the ability to "work out their salvation" without the MoG pulling their strings and making their life decisions.

The flotsam and jetsam left behind is of no concern because those people are just a bunch of whiners anyway.

 

[subllibrm]

<snip> POMO.  <snip

Psst, what's POMO?

 

[subllibrm]

I am glad to see you Alayman. You are so much more interesting than RevBob.