Fundraising Question

[BALAAM]

    I am not a pentecostal and could never be one, however, I enjoy Jimmy Swaggart and their music from time to time. Now, every month this ministry has a 'Sharathon' to raise money for television airtime. They always have a goal which has been around the 3.8 million dollar mark. They stress that this is only for air time and not salaries or overhead. They absolutely must have it as they have no resources if it falls short. It has fallen about 15 - 20% short the last three or four months that I have paid attention to the final numbers.

    Now, when a ministry has a fund raiser like this and falls short, do you think they they artificially inflate the goal knowing it will be short? Does a wealthy person step in after the 4 day Sharathon and make up the difference? This is something I am curious about as most ministries have become full-time fund raisers and I see different styles and different goals. I can't say I am totally against it but the constant fund raising is tiring to me and I know that in most ministries and business ventures if you don't make budget then you absolutely have to cut costs and services.

 

[subllibrm]

I quit listening to Focus On The Family way back when. It got so Dr. Dobson was schlepping some crises or another at least that often.

 

[bgwilkinson]

Even churches do the fundraising thing.

We call it faith promise.

I'm not sure what Paul called it when he raised funds for the Jerusalem Baptist Church.

Our local PBS TV station has a begathon going on continually.

 

[praise_yeshua]

They may exaggerate. Who knows. Most ministries of this type are very seldom produce audited financials.

http://www.charitynavigator.org/

Charity Navigator does a pretty good job of providing public information on various charities. Many religious charities refuse to provide public information or even share financials with donors.

I think another interesting aspect to a question like this is....

How the artificial goal set by the average church preaching "tithing" with thousands of dollars sitting in a bank somewhere just waiting to be spent at the whim of those in control of the money?

I'm all for support a local church financially. However, twisting the preaching of the tithe to force people to give your own choices is rather ungodly.

 

[praise_yeshua]

Even churches do the fundraising thing.

We call it faith promise.

I'm not sure what Paul called it when he raised funds for the Jerusalem Baptist Church.

Our local PBS TV station has a begathon going on continually.

I don't really have a problem with the begging. I have a problem when true motives are hidden and Scripture is twisted to benefit those motives.

 

[subllibrm]

I think another interesting aspect to a question like this is....

How the artificial goal set by the average church preaching "tithing" with thousands of dollars sitting in a bank somewhere just waiting to be spent at the whim of those in control of the money?

What kind of "whims" do you have in mind?

I only ask because we can't spend without congregational approval so I have no experience with whims.

 

[praise_yeshua]

I think another interesting aspect to a question like this is....

How the artificial goal set by the average church preaching "tithing" with thousands of dollars sitting in a bank somewhere just waiting to be spent at the whim of those in control of the money?

What kind of "whims" do you have in mind?

I only ask because we can't spend without congregational approval so I have no experience with whims.

Are you actually saying that congregational approval CAN'T be classified as a "whim"?

Most congregations will never even get to vote on something..... WITHOUT some type of prior approval to bring the issue before church. Very few congregations vote on everything. They only vote on what the powers that be want them to consider. Much like our lovely congress does when bills are held by leader of the Senate or the House.

Granted. Not all do this but I'd say its more common than uncommon. Even when there is a group vote, very few will go against the prevailing "winds" steering the process.

 

[subllibrm]

I think another interesting aspect to a question like this is....

How the artificial goal set by the average church preaching "tithing" with thousands of dollars sitting in a bank somewhere just waiting to be spent at the whim of those in control of the money?

What kind of "whims" do you have in mind?

I only ask because we can't spend without congregational approval so I have no experience with whims.

Are you actually saying that congregational approval CAN'T be classified as a "whim"?

Most congregations will never even get to vote on something..... WITHOUT some type of prior approval to bring the issue before church. Very few congregations vote on everything. They only vote on what the powers that be want them to consider. Much like our lovely congress does when bills are held by leader of the Senate or the House.

Granted. Not all do this but I'd say its more common than uncommon. Even when there is a group vote, very few will go against the prevailing "winds" steering the process.

So you have nothing specific in mind?

 

[Fresh Air]

    I am not a pentecostal and could never be one, however, I enjoy Jimmy Swaggart and their music from time to time. Now, every month this ministry has a 'Sharathon' to raise money for television airtime. They always have a goal which has been around the 3.8 million dollar mark. They stress that this is only for air time and not salaries or overhead. They absolutely must have it as they have no resources if it falls short. It has fallen about 15 - 20% short the last three or four months that I have paid attention to the final numbers.

    Now, when a ministry has a fund raiser like this and falls short, do you think they they artificially inflate the goal knowing it will be short? Does a wealthy person step in after the 4 day Sharathon and make up the difference? This is something I am curious about as most ministries have become full-time fund raisers and I see different styles and different goals. I can't say I am totally against it but the constant fund raising is tiring to me and I know that in most ministries and business ventures if you don't make budget then you absolutely have to cut costs and services.

In the specific case you mention they continue to function month to month even though their goal is short b/c they don't really need the money. I've read several in depth investigative reports on Swaggart finances going back years and they've always had oodles of money. Probably precisely b/c they always continually pressure people for it.

 

[subllibrm]

    I am not a pentecostal and could never be one, however, I enjoy Jimmy Swaggart and their music from time to time. Now, every month this ministry has a 'Sharathon' to raise money for television airtime. They always have a goal which has been around the 3.8 million dollar mark. They stress that this is only for air time and not salaries or overhead. They absolutely must have it as they have no resources if it falls short. It has fallen about 15 - 20% short the last three or four months that I have paid attention to the final numbers.

    Now, when a ministry has a fund raiser like this and falls short, do you think they they artificially inflate the goal knowing it will be short? Does a wealthy person step in after the 4 day Sharathon and make up the difference? This is something I am curious about as most ministries have become full-time fund raisers and I see different styles and different goals. I can't say I am totally against it but the constant fund raising is tiring to me and I know that in most ministries and business ventures if you don't make budget then you absolutely have to cut costs and services.

In the specific case you mention they continue to function month to month even though their goal is short b/c they don't really need the money. I've read several in depth investigative reports on Swaggart finances going back years and they've always had oodles of money. Probably precisely b/c they always continually pressure people for it.

Not unlike the average church that budgets for a little less than the expected giving and puts the rest in a rainy day fund of some sort. Then make sure to pass the plate at every opportunity even if there is a surplus in the bank. It is amazing what people will pay to watch some guy bloviate his opinion. 























Just wanted to beat Mater to the punch.  ;D

 

[praise_yeshua]

I think another interesting aspect to a question like this is....

How the artificial goal set by the average church preaching "tithing" with thousands of dollars sitting in a bank somewhere just waiting to be spent at the whim of those in control of the money?

What kind of "whims" do you have in mind?

I only ask because we can't spend without congregational approval so I have no experience with whims.

Are you actually saying that congregational approval CAN'T be classified as a "whim"?

Most congregations will never even get to vote on something..... WITHOUT some type of prior approval to bring the issue before church. Very few congregations vote on everything. They only vote on what the powers that be want them to consider. Much like our lovely congress does when bills are held by leader of the Senate or the House.

Granted. Not all do this but I'd say its more common than uncommon. Even when there is a group vote, very few will go against the prevailing "winds" steering the process.

So you have nothing specific in mind?

I can name a few things but you probably wouldn't agree with me. How about we cut to the chase..... do you know of anything you believe is being misspent.

I can say....that tired old line of "Nothing is too good for the House of God" is pretty silly. Somehow I don't think that has anything to do with flag poles on church ground waving the supposed "Christian" flag. Or silver/gold plated offering plate.....s because only the best should be used to collect "God's money".

 

[subllibrm]

I think another interesting aspect to a question like this is....

How the artificial goal set by the average church preaching "tithing" with thousands of dollars sitting in a bank somewhere just waiting to be spent at the whim of those in control of the money?

What kind of "whims" do you have in mind?

I only ask because we can't spend without congregational approval so I have no experience with whims.

Are you actually saying that congregational approval CAN'T be classified as a "whim"?

Most congregations will never even get to vote on something..... WITHOUT some type of prior approval to bring the issue before church. Very few congregations vote on everything. They only vote on what the powers that be want them to consider. Much like our lovely congress does when bills are held by leader of the Senate or the House.

Granted. Not all do this but I'd say its more common than uncommon. Even when there is a group vote, very few will go against the prevailing "winds" steering the process.

So you have nothing specific in mind?

I can name a few things but you probably wouldn't agree with me. How about we cut to the chase..... do you know of anything you believe is being misspent.

I can say....that tired old line of "Nothing is too good for the House of God" is pretty silly. Somehow I don't think that has anything to do with flag poles on church ground waving the supposed "Christian" flag. Or silver/gold plated offering plate.....s because only the best should be used to collect "God's money".

Wow! Why are you all worked up? You made a statement. I asked for an example and you have answered with a question. Giving you the benefit of the doubt I asked again in a different way. And then you ask another question wrapped around further speculation.

So why do I have to cut to the chase? You are one avoiding clarifying your original statement. You said it, own it.

Oh and no, I do not know of any "whims" in our budget or of church funds spent on such.

 

[BALAAM]

    I am not a pentecostal and could never be one, however, I enjoy Jimmy Swaggart and their music from time to time. Now, every month this ministry has a 'Sharathon' to raise money for television airtime. They always have a goal which has been around the 3.8 million dollar mark. They stress that this is only for air time and not salaries or overhead. They absolutely must have it as they have no resources if it falls short. It has fallen about 15 - 20% short the last three or four months that I have paid attention to the final numbers.

    Now, when a ministry has a fund raiser like this and falls short, do you think they they artificially inflate the goal knowing it will be short? Does a wealthy person step in after the 4 day Sharathon and make up the difference? This is something I am curious about as most ministries have become full-time fund raisers and I see different styles and different goals. I can't say I am totally against it but the constant fund raising is tiring to me and I know that in most ministries and business ventures if you don't make budget then you absolutely have to cut costs and services.

In the specific case you mention they continue to function month to month even though their goal is short b/c they don't really need the money. I've read several in depth investigative reports on Swaggart finances going back years and they've always had oodles of money. Probably precisely b/c they always continually pressure people for it.

This is kind of what I was thinking and yet still hoping it wasn't true. I have always liked JS and yet I mistrust these big ministries. How can you see we absolutely must have x dollars; If you don't really need it?

 

[praise_yeshua]

I think another interesting aspect to a question like this is....

How the artificial goal set by the average church preaching "tithing" with thousands of dollars sitting in a bank somewhere just waiting to be spent at the whim of those in control of the money?

What kind of "whims" do you have in mind?

I only ask because we can't spend without congregational approval so I have no experience with whims.

Are you actually saying that congregational approval CAN'T be classified as a "whim"?

Most congregations will never even get to vote on something..... WITHOUT some type of prior approval to bring the issue before church. Very few congregations vote on everything. They only vote on what the powers that be want them to consider. Much like our lovely congress does when bills are held by leader of the Senate or the House.

Granted. Not all do this but I'd say its more common than uncommon. Even when there is a group vote, very few will go against the prevailing "winds" steering the process.

So you have nothing specific in mind?

I can name a few things but you probably wouldn't agree with me. How about we cut to the chase..... do you know of anything you believe is being misspent.

I can say....that tired old line of "Nothing is too good for the House of God" is pretty silly. Somehow I don't think that has anything to do with flag poles on church ground waving the supposed "Christian" flag. Or silver/gold plated offering plate.....s because only the best should be used to collect "God's money".

Wow! Why are you all worked up? You made a statement. I asked for an example and you have answered with a question. Giving you the benefit of the doubt I asked again in a different way. And then you ask another question wrapped around further speculation.

So why do I have to cut to the chase? You are one avoiding clarifying your original statement. You said it, own it.

Oh and no, I do not know of any "whims" in our budget or of church funds spent on such.

I asked a question and then answered your question. Don't pretend I didn't. Read again.

So.... You've never been faced with an "impulse" decision someone came up with?

 

[subllibrm]

So.... You've never been faced with an "impulse" decision someone came up with?

So you have no examples of "whims" but you are sure that it is more common than uncommon. Who can argue with logic like that?

But to answer your latest accusatory "question", no. I have no recollection of any impulse buying driven through the congregation by the powers-that-be train. Sorry to burst your bitter bubble buddy.

 

[AmazedbyGrace]

I am pretty jaded about church fundraising. Tired of all the manipulation. Everything, and I mean everything, should be upfront and honest. Stop with the guilt already.

And does God really need us to sacrifice financially to build a coffee shop and bookstore? Really?

http://www.stufffundieslike.com/2014/08/fundraising-in-sixty-four-simple-spirit-led-steps/

 

[subllibrm]

I am pretty jaded about church fundraising. Tired of all the manipulation. Everything, and I mean everything, should be upfront and honest. Stop with the guilt already.

And does God really need us to sacrifice financially to build a coffee shop and bookstore? Really?

http://www.stufffundieslike.com/2014/08/fundraising-in-sixty-four-simple-spirit-led-steps/

Libruls have coffee shops and bookstores.

 

[praise_yeshua]

So.... You've never been faced with an "impulse" decision someone came up with?

So you have no examples of "whims" but you are sure that it is more common than uncommon. Who can argue with logic like that?

But to answer your latest accusatory "question", no. I have no recollection of any impulse buying driven through the congregation by the powers-that-be train. Sorry to burst your bitter bubble buddy.

Bitter? You've made a rather large assumption about me. I gave examples. Examples you ignore. You then call me "Bitter"?

Typical. Enjoy your illusion.

 

[FSSL]

I will set up a donation for FFF to continue. We need 1.5 million to make sure this site continues until "The Day of the Laaaawd."

This is commanded as the 18th gospel found in the book of Acts.

Do I see a hand? There in the back, bless you son, I see your hand, you can put it down now (before anyone else sees my imaginary repentant soul).

 

[subllibrm]

So.... You've never been faced with an "impulse" decision someone came up with?

So you have no examples of "whims" but you are sure that it is more common than uncommon. Who can argue with logic like that?

But to answer your latest accusatory "question", no. I have no recollection of any impulse buying driven through the congregation by the powers-that-be train. Sorry to burst your bitter bubble buddy.

Bitter? You've made a rather large assumption about me. I gave examples. Examples you ignore. You then call me "Bitter"?

Typical. Enjoy your illusion.

You mentioned gold plated offering plates. Really? That's all you have?