Greg Boyd and The Myth of a Christian Nation

Izdaari said:
Smellin Coffee said:
Reformed Guy said:
I'm of the opinion that the Church should speak to political matters, in declaring what the Scripture has already declared.  But I detest the manner in which Christians have latched onto The Republican Party/Fox News/Tea Party/etc. as the Christian Ideal.
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Thank you. :)
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I agree. God is not a Republican or a Democrat... or even an American.
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coffee-with-Jesus-cartoon-POLITICAL-SPECTRUM.jpg
 
praise_yeshua said:
Recovering.... Why did you ignore what I wrote?

How is anything I wrote incompatible with he verses you've posted in response? Be specific.... Please.
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I'm sorry, i didn't see this response.
Because God is sovereign over all things; it is not possible for man to have a free will. From our perspective, I can understand how somebody can feel that way. But I think it its clear that God pre-ordains all things to fulfill his will. I also believe in Scripture God speaks down to us in order for our understanding. I think that if man was totally free, than God can not foretell the future in prophecy because He would have to wait on our actions
 
Recovering IFB said:
praise_yeshua said:
Recovering.... Why did you ignore what I wrote?

How is anything I wrote incompatible with he verses you've posted in response? Be specific.... Please.
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I'm sorry, i didn't see this response.
Because God is sovereign over all things; it is not possible for man to have a free will. From our perspective, I can understand how somebody can feel that way. But I think it its clear that God pre-ordains all things to fulfill his will. I also believe in Scripture God speaks down to us in order for our understanding. I think that if man was totally free, than God can not foretell the future in prophecy because He would have to wait on our actions
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Are you really saying God doesn't wait on our actions? Are so divorced from reality that you actually believe this? Even God said there is a time for everything. Sometime it's a time to wait.

The actions of man can never change the Sovegnity of God. Man is powerless. God is all powerful. This doesn't mean man DOESN'T have free will. Mans free will can not override the power of God.

You have the typical Calvinist belief that any change.... changes God. This thought is so utterly ridiculous it's not even worth the digital footprint it takes to display it.
 
God sees all of His reactions to our free will , from the beginning to the end, presently.
Yes, He allows us to shape the future.
Yes, He already knows and has reacted to our actions.
God doesn't dwell in Time, but in Eternity.
Calvinists will argue the concept of eternity, do defend their indefensible theories.

Isa 45:11
11 Thus saith the Lord, the Holy One of Israel, and his Maker,
Ask me of things to come concerning my sons,
and concerning the work of my hands command ye me.
 
FSSL said:
A God who learns is a god designed in the mind of man.
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It all depends on what you mean by "learned".

It very clear in the Scriptures that it "behoved" Christ to be like unto his brethren that He might be a faithful High Priest to those he redeemed.

Twist ever how you want to twist it. God. In Christ. Learned/experienced... HIMSELF..... ITs call EMPATHY. God didn't just sympathize with man. In Christ, He could EMPATHIZE with humanity.

Are you denying this at the expense of your theology?
 
Since when has the word "learn" become a matter of debate?

The Christology of the Kenosis answers your question  Read Php 2
 
prophet said:
FSSL said:
A God who learns is a god designed in the mind of man.
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Agreed.
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Just give me one Scripture that says God lives outside of time and has seen all of time... including the entirety of the future. Just one. If you can't.... then why you taken the theology of MAN over the Scriptures?

The mixing of Greek Philosophy and the truth of Christianity have produced such nonsense. 
 
FSSL said:
Since when has the word "learn" become a matter of debate?
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SInce we are talking about God.....

Does knowledge include experience? Is there a difference between experience and just being aware of something?
 
Remember the former things, those of long ago;
I am God, and there is no other;
I am God, and there is none like me.
I make known the end from the beginning,
from ancient times, what is still to come.
I say: My purpose will stand,
and I will do all that I please.
From the east I summon a bird of prey;
from a far-off land, a man to fulfill my purpose.
What I have said, that will I bring about;

Isaiah 46
 
praise_yeshua said:
Are you really saying God doesn't wait on our actions? Are so divorced from reality that you actually believe this? Even God said there is a time for everything. Sometime it's a time to wait.

The actions of man can never change the Sovegnity of God. Man is powerless. God is all powerful. This doesn't mean man DOESN'T have free will. Mans free will can not override the power of God.

You have the typical Calvinist belief that any change.... changes God. This thought is so utterly ridiculous it's not even worth the digital footprint it takes to display it.
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No God doesnt change, we do.
Man has no free will, I would have any free will it would be for sin. Because man cant choose God, it's impossible.(Rom 3:11) How can man choose God, if Scripture says "nobody seeks God"?
Man only "chooses" God after gives him a new heart of flesh.
It takes God to work in all affairs of life. He raised up the Assyrians, used them to judge Israel, then judged the Assyrians for their wickedness. Why? because it's God's will. His perfect will.
 
Recovering IFB said:
praise_yeshua said:
Are you really saying God doesn't wait on our actions? Are so divorced from reality that you actually believe this? Even God said there is a time for everything. Sometime it's a time to wait.

The actions of man can never change the Sovegnity of God. Man is powerless. God is all powerful. This doesn't mean man DOESN'T have free will. Mans free will can not override the power of God.

You have the typical Calvinist belief that any change.... changes God. This thought is so utterly ridiculous it's not even worth the digital footprint it takes to display it.
Click to expand...
No God doesnt change, we do.
Man has no free will, I would have any free will it would be for sin. Because man cant choose God, it's impossible.(Rom 3:11) How can man choose God, if Scripture says "nobody seeks God"?
Man only "chooses" God after gives him a new heart of flesh.
It takes God to work in all affairs of life. He raised up the Assyrians, used them to judge Israel, then judged the Assyrians for their wickedness. Why? because it's God's will. His perfect will.
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So woefully ignore of the Scriptures. Paul clear said differently. You should believe the Scriptures and stop confining them your woefully lacking theology.

Acts 17:26 And he made from one man every nation of mankind to live on all the face of the earth, having determined allotted periods and the boundaries of their dwelling place,
27  that they should seek God, and perhaps feel their way toward him and find him. Yet he is actually not far from each one of us,
 
FSSL said:
Remember the former things, those of long ago;
I am God, and there is no other;
I am God, and there is none like me.
I make known the end from the beginning,
from ancient times, what is still to come.
I say: My purpose will stand,
and I will do all that I please.
From the east I summon a bird of prey;
from a far-off land, a man to fulfill my purpose.
What I have said, that will I bring about;

Isaiah 46
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Isa 46:9  and remember the former things that were of old: for I am God, and there is none other beside me,
Isa 46:10  telling beforehand the latter events before they come to pass, and they are accomplished together: and I said, all my counsel shall stand, and I will do all things that I have planned:
Isa 46:11  calling a bird from the east, and from a land afar off, for the things which I have planned: I have spoken, and brought him; I have created and made him; I have brought him, and prospered his way.


By the way... This says nothing about God living outside of time. It says nothing about being Omniscient because He's seen the beginning to the end. Yes. God declares events before hand and brings them to pass. I never said He didn't. You're the one saying that God has foreordain everything. That isn't even close to being true.
 
There is no wiggle room...

This is a hendiadys. God created time. His knowledge and purposes encompass everything in all times.

I make known the end from the beginning,
from ancient times, what is still to come.
 
christundivided said:
So woefully ignore of the Scriptures. Paul clear said differently. You should believe the Scriptures and stop confining them your woefully lacking theology.

Acts 17:26 And he made from one man every nation of mankind to live on all the face of the earth, having determined allotted periods and the boundaries of their dwelling place,
27  that they should seek God, and perhaps feel their way toward him and find him. Yet he is actually not far from each one of us,
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Ignoring Scripture? this verse in Acts coincides with Ecclesiastes 3:11, this too, is initiated by God. Remember?, "Nobody seeks after God"?
 
FSSL said:
There is no wiggle room...

This is a hendiadys. God created time. His knowledge and purposes encompass everything in all times.

I make known the end from the beginning,
from ancient times, what is still to come.
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So you say. I gave an alternate translation. I was testing how much you like the Old Greek text. :)

There is nothing the text that says God created time. Nothing, IN fact Jesus said I AM the beginning and the end. Just like God is Love. God is Time. IT is A part of His nature and Being.

Do you ever remember reading these words....

Only ONLY hath immortality.... dwelling in the light?

 
Recovering IFB said:
christundivided said:
So woefully ignore of the Scriptures. Paul clear said differently. You should believe the Scriptures and stop confining them your woefully lacking theology.

Acts 17:26 And he made from one man every nation of mankind to live on all the face of the earth, having determined allotted periods and the boundaries of their dwelling place,
27  that they should seek God, and perhaps feel their way toward him and find him. Yet he is actually not far from each one of us,
Click to expand...

Ignoring Scripture? this verse in Acts coincides with Ecclesiastes 3:11, this too, is initiated by God. Remember?, "Nobody seeks after God"?
Click to expand...

No. You're the one ignoring Scripture. Paul declared that God made man to seek Him. It's just a clear as day. Why are you ignoring it for Calvin's own silly theology?

You SHOULD know that things changed at Calvary. Jesus said if he be lifted up.... He would draw all men to Himelf.

Why do you willing ignore this?

 
praise_yeshua said:
Recovering IFB said:
christundivided said:
So woefully ignore of the Scriptures. Paul clear said differently. You should believe the Scriptures and stop confining them your woefully lacking theology.

Acts 17:26 And he made from one man every nation of mankind to live on all the face of the earth, having determined allotted periods and the boundaries of their dwelling place,
27  that they should seek God, and perhaps feel their way toward him and find him. Yet he is actually not far from each one of us,
Click to expand...

Ignoring Scripture? this verse in Acts coincides with Ecclesiastes 3:11, this too, is initiated by God. Remember?, "Nobody seeks after God"?
Click to expand...

No. You're the one ignoring Scripture. Paul declared that God made man to seek Him. It's just a clear as day. Why are you ignoring it for Calvin's own silly theology?

You SHOULD know that things changed at Calvary. Jesus said if he be lifted up.... He would draw all men to Himelf.

Why do you willing ignore this?
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Great! Everyone gets saved!? Or did Jesus tell the disciples that they didn't choose Him but He chose them?and didn't Jesus teach that no man can come to him unless the father draws them. The fact is that Jesus died for the church, so when he was lifted up, "all men", the church would come to him
 
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