Has the IFB movement gone to pot???

AverageJoe

AverageJoe

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Many of the IFB churches in our area have started to become "less than kosher" in their stands. I mean, many were bad before, teaching the views of men as the doctrines of the Bible, but many nowadays are truly going off the wall. I have had several people tell me that they left an IFB church in the area just a few months back to visit other IFB churches, and they all have seemed to become "teachers of the LAW" and not teachers of grace. One lady wore slacks to a Wednesday evening service, and the assistant pastor's wife pulled the woman aside after the service and called her out on "looking and dressing like a tramp!" That was the final straw for this couple, and they joined the largest church in our area...World Outreach Church. World Outreach IS NOT IFB...it's non-denominational. Pastor Allen Jackson is a very good speaker. The couple feel "right at home" there, and are getting involved slowly but surely. They weren't allowed to become involved in the IFB churches because the husband had been divorced, and the wife had had two children out of wedlock before she married her husband. What is this wolrd, and the IFB churches coming to? So legalistic that they remind me of the Pharisees of Christs day!
 
AverageJoe said:
Many of the IFB churches in our area have started to become "less than kosher" in their stands. I mean, many were bad before, teaching the views of men as the doctrines of the Bible, but many nowadays are truly going off the wall. I have had several people tell me that they left an IFB church in the area just a few months back to visit other IFB churches, and they all have seemed to become "teachers of the LAW" and not teachers of grace. One lady wore slacks to a Wednesday evening service, and the assistant pastor's wife pulled the woman aside after the service and called her out on "looking and dressing like a tramp!" That was the final straw for this couple, and they joined the largest church in our area...World Outreach Church. World Outreach IS NOT IFB...it's non-denominational. Pastor Allen Jackson is a very good speaker. The couple feel "right at home" there, and are getting involved slowly but surely. They weren't allowed to become involved in the IFB churches because the husband had been divorced, and the wife had had two children out of wedlock before she married her husband. What is this wolrd, and the IFB churches coming to? So legalistic that they remind me of the Pharisees of Christs day!
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The ones I've been a part of including the one I left a few months back actually weren't that bad. They would mention women not wearing slacks from the pulpit on occasion but wouldn't directly confront someone. The divorce issue was only relevant if one wanted to be a deacon. Of course the church I just left had several men on staff and Hyles graduates in the congregation so most significant positions were taken by them anyway.
 
tmjbog said:
The ones I've been a part of including the one I left a few months back actually weren't that bad. They would mention women not wearing slacks from the pulpit on occasion but wouldn't directly confront someone. The divorce issue was only relevant if one wanted to be a deacon. Of course the church I just left had several men on staff and Hyles graduates in the congregation so most significant positions were taken by them anyway.
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Since the mid 80s I've NOT been a fan of anything Hyles. When at Maranatha he was a speaker during one of the chapel services. At the end of that service he was speaking with many students in front of the bleachers, and he came right out and stated that we needed to considering coming to HAC as Dr. Cedarholm was going to be becoming the President Emeritus and Dr. Arno Q Weniger, Jr was going to be becoming the President the next semester and would take the school down the wrong road. Someone asked him about Dave and accusations that Dave and he himself had against them for sexual misconduct, and he just laughed it off. I told my then-fiance that I wouldn't go to HAC if they PAID me! I've tried to be open-minded about him, but, it's not something that I believe is possible.
 
The last IFB church I was in, before leaving the movement, was relatively moderate. They did not worship Hyles, and they dropped the King James Only stuff and ban on women's slacks a long time ago. But I had a problem with such things as their worship of Bush and of the modern nation of Israel, their support of abusive private prisons like Hephzibah House, and then the new pastor tried to push through a new constitution from Christian Law Association which makes the switch from congregational to preacher rule, and he told me that the previous policy of Christian Liberty was being replaced with Unity, meaning no questioning of or disagreement with the pastor allowed. At that point I felt that it was time for me to leave. Much of the IFB movement has indeed gone to pot, not only the Hyles worshippers and Ruckmanite crazies, but unfortunately there are problems in many IFB churches with no connection to Hyles/Ruckman.
 
illinoisguy said:
The last IFB church I was in, before leaving the movement, was relatively moderate. They did not worship Hyles, and they dropped the King James Only stuff and ban on women's slacks a long time ago. But I had a problem with such things as their worship of Bush and of the modern nation of Israel, their support of abusive private prisons like Hephzibah House, and then the new pastor tried to push through a new constitution from Christian Law Association which makes the switch from congregational to preacher rule, and he told me that the previous policy of Christian Liberty was being replaced with Unity, meaning no questioning of or disagreement with the pastor allowed. At that point I felt that it was time for me to leave. Much of the IFB movement has indeed gone to pot, not only the Hyles worshippers and Ruckmanite crazies, but unfortunately there are problems in many IFB churches with no connection to Hyles/Ruckman.
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The one I left were still die hard KJV Onlyists. The leadership was also above being questioned but they were not in your face about it like some. They were definitely more transparent or at least had the appearance of being transparent. They weren't typical for a Hyles type church. Although, much of that changed with the pastor that started the same time I started attending. The previous pastor was very high up at Hyles-Anderson at one point. When he made his way up to the "stage" the congregation would stand up and hoot, holler, clap.
 
With the rise of false churches under false teachers (Furtick/Lentz/Groeschel/Noble) and many evangelicals promoting BLM and Abortion (Piper/Chandler/Platt/Giglio) and the entertainment carnal churches of Groeschel, not only is the IFB movement going downhill so are other mainline denominations. Just be glad Jack Hyles isn't alive to see this. He'd have plenty to say about the "Church of America" today as well as the feminine soy boys and that almost every commercial promotes gay relationships.
 
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TheAlvinChimpmunk said:
With the rise of false churches under false teachers (Furtick/Lentz/Groeschel/Noble) and many evangelicals promoting BLM and Abortion (Piper/Chandler/Platt/Giglio) and the entertainment carnal churches of Groeschel, not only is the IFB movement going downhill so are other mainline denominations. Just be glad Jack Hyles isn't alive to see this. He'd have plenty to say about the "Church of America" today as well ass the feminine soy boys and that almost every commercial promotes gay relationships.
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I have NEVER been, nor will I ever be a fan of anything Hyles. Yes, he did do SOME good things for the IFB movement that need to be acknowledged...one was helping to get churches on board with having a bus ministry, without which my mother would never have come to Christ and my family would probably never have heard the Gospel. That being said, Hyles was terrible in many of the things he did, and in those he led into his cult. My wife and I attended a Hyles supporting church in the Murfreesboro area for several years, and I loved the people there. But, the pastor was a friend and supporter of Joe Combs who had been arrested along with his wife over in E. Tennessee. He praised him for standing up against the tyranny of the police and the "false accusations" of the people. The problem was, they weren't false. My wife and I knew this, and his continued ranting and raving during one of the church services caused my wife and I to gather up our things and leave during the middle of his sermon! We never went back. His assistant was a graduate of Hyles grade, high school and the college, but he was more tempered in his approach to Hyles. I know that we all have feet of clay, but when something is wrong, it is wrong. The man who took the pastors place, being an HAC grad, still is my friend and a great source of inspiration to me in many things. He still holds Hyles dear, and I can understand why. He has fond memories of the man and wasn't embroiled in all of the controversies, but realizes that others were indeed affected by them, and he doesn't try to negate that fact. The church sold their building and moved to a nearby rural community where the church could grow and is doing well. We've been back since he took the church to visit, and we've enjoyed being there. But, there is one church just South of us that is run by an HAC grad, and they were very rude about us coming to visit if we didn't like Hyles. This was typical of what we've seen and experienced in many HAC controlled IFB churches. Still, many churches that don't support Hyles and his cult-like atmosphere have started to go to pot as well. I don't believe we have but one or two good, strong, Bible believeing IFB churches in our area now. We have many SBC churches that are sound in doctrine and practice, and I am proud to say that I would go to one of them before I would darken the door of an IFB church. At least the people have a say in how these churches are run.
 
TheAlvinChimpmunk said:
and many evangelicals promoting BLM and Abortion (Piper/Chandler/Platt/Giglio)
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News flash, troll: None of them promote abortion.

You know what? We've put up with your inanity for ever. You want to cross the line into slander? Do it elsewhere. I'm out of patience. Do it again, and you're a memory. "Tony" will go with you.

I'm not trolling. Try me, and you'll find out.
 
Ransom said:
News flash, troll: None of them promote abortion.

You know what? We've put up with your inanity for ever. You want to cross the line into slander? Do it elsewhere. I'm out of patience. Do it again, and you're a memory. "Tony" will go with you.

I'm not trolling. Try me, and you'll find out.
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Is that "Tony" me? Scott, if you want me to leave...all you have to do is ask! I dont' stay where I'm not wanted....you should already know that. If you're trying to lump ME in with Alvin...you're definitely wrong.
 
AverageJoe said:
Is that "Tony" me? Scott, if you want me to leave...all you have to do is ask! I dont' stay where I'm not wanted....you should already know that. If you're trying to lump ME in with Alvin...you're definitely wrong.
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I think he was referring to Alvin’s sock…Tony Hutson Comedian
 
AverageJoe said:
Is that "Tony" me? Scott, if you want me to leave...all you have to do is ask! I dont' stay where I'm not wanted....you should already know that. If you're trying to lump ME in with Alvin...you're definitely wrong.
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No. I absolutely do not mean you. It didn't occur to me when I wrote that, that there's a real-life Tony also posting here.

We have two troll accounts on this forum, "TheAlvinChipmunk" and "TonyHutsonComedian," who all together have one lame joke that gets lamer with every post. They're the same person.
 
Ransom said:
No. I absolutely do not mean you. It didn't occur to me when I wrote that, that there's a real-life Tony also posting here.

We have two troll accounts on this forum, "TheAlvinChipmunk" and "TonyHutsonComedian," who all together have one lame joke that gets lamer with every post. They're the same person.
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Sorry about that, Scott! I, too, forgot that we had these two nitwits here! LOL Guess the "old-timers" is catching up with me! Today has just been "that kind" of day! :)
 
Much of the problem is the doctrine that man-made rules are both the cause and result of holiness.
That doctrine leads to the rejection of Biblical holiness in favor of man-made rules.
That doctrine leads to the belief that a person who follows the man-made rules MUST be holy, regardless of how much sin he practices.
That doctrine leads to the belief that we are to bad-mouth Christians who object to sin in the leadership.
 
Vince Massi said:
Much of the problem is the doctrine that man-made rules are both the cause and result of holiness.
That doctrine leads to the rejection of Biblical holiness in favor of man-made rules.
That doctrine leads to the belief that a person who follows the man-made rules MUST be holy, regardless of how much sin he practices.
That doctrine leads to the belief that we are to bad-mouth Christians who object to sin in the leadership.
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Vince, you're still off your nut, aren't you????
 
Vince Massi said:
Much of the problem is the doctrine that man-made rules are both the cause and result of holiness.
That doctrine leads to the rejection of Biblical holiness in favor of man-made rules.
That doctrine leads to the belief that a person who follows the man-made rules MUST be holy, regardless of how much sin he practices.
That doctrine leads to the belief that we are to bad-mouth Christians who object to sin in the leadership.

AverageJoe said:
Vince, you're still off your nut, aren't you????


I think Vince is pretty close to accuracy in his post.
 
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Tarheel Baptist said:
Vince Massi said:
Much of the problem is the doctrine that man-made rules are both the cause and result of holiness.
That doctrine leads to the rejection of Biblical holiness in favor of man-made rules.
That doctrine leads to the belief that a person who follows the man-made rules MUST be holy, regardless of how much sin he practices.
That doctrine leads to the belief that we are to bad-mouth Christians who object to sin in the leadership.

AverageJoe said:
Vince, you're still off your nut, aren't you????


I think Vince is pretty close to accuracy in his post.
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To some extent he may be...but even a broken clock is right twice a day! Most of what Mr. Massi gives out is pure hogwash!
 
IFB has been dead for many years. I would suggest that when Falwell went SB, that was the death knell. All it needs now is a formal burial. The average Christian has never heard of the leaders of the "movement" (if there are any), and have been put-off by all of the sexual perversion attached to it.
 
bruinboy said:
IFB has been dead for many years. I would suggest that when Falwell went SB, that was the death knell. All it needs now is a formal burial. The average Christian has never heard of the leaders of the "movement" (if there are any), and have been put-off by all of the sexual perversion attached to it.
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That's not what I saw from my time in IFB churches. Of the 4 or so I was at for any length of time none were shrinking. Only one was just maintaining its size and the other 3 were growing. One I was a part of for about 4 years started with average attendance around 300 and when I left was running about 800. Two things I think keep them growing. One is an excellent sales campaign. Keep hitting the streets with easy believism. As long as you send enough teams out a week even if only .5% show up it will keep the number growing. The second thing that helps them is the many denominations that are committed to outdoing each other as the most liberal and least Biblical. As these churches drive people away a certain number see the IFB as protected from the Liberalism invading the denominations. It takes a while of being part of an IFB to begin recognizing their Unbiblical ways.
 
I know my wife and I went to a very well known IFB church here back in the late 90s, and it SEEMED to be a good church. The pastor hadn't been there very long, and he had a Hispanic pastor on his staff. The Hispanic pastor was standing in the back when my wife and I came in one night from working overtime and we were both wearing jeans and t-shirts. My hair was 1/2 way over my ears because I hadn't had a chance to get to a barber with all of the OT we were working....He made the comment to one of the other people who worked with him in the Hispanic ministry about how we couldn't be saved and that we probably needed someone to talk to us after the service. That was all I needed to go back and talk to him....He didn't like that one bit...I reported him to the pastor, and the pastor got his dander up and told me if I didn't like it, I could always look for another church, that the Hispanic pastor was just showing concern for our souls...HORSE CRAP HE WAS! He knew who we were, and my wife and I confronted him and asked him to back up his assertions of our lack of salvation, and proof that he didn't know who we were...I didn't give him or his secretary our name, and he called us both by our first and last names within the first two minutes of our being there....This pharisaical attitude probably helped lead to the split when another well known preacher split off from this church and started his own in Nashville. We went to one last church in the IFB for a few years, but the pastor ended up disappearing and without any notice. He had defended Joe Combs in the service and my wife and I got up and left during that ranting speech he gave from the pulpit! We'll NEVER join an IFB church again.
 
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