"He Gets Us"

Gringo said:
Here another question that apparently, we arent to worry about until we get to Heaven: why does God not extend salvation to angels that sided with His first creation who chose evil. Why can't a demon believe in Christ and be saved - since he is a creation that chose sin just like you and I did. ?
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Hebrews 11:6 may offer a clue:

And without faith it is impossible to please God, because anyone who approaches Him must believe that He exists and that He rewards those who earnestly seek Him.

Where do angelic beings exist? In the presence of God. Have you ever seen God Himself? Have you ever experienced His glory? No. Humans were created on the earth within the dimension of time. Therefore, we relate to God by faith. Yes, God inhabitants either an angelic body, the Angel of the Lord aka a Christophony and of course His Son Jesus, but these appearances are within the same physical realm in which we exist. We are still required to view Him by faith. The host of Heaven, on the other hand, has seen God as He is. No faith, only sight. One day, we too will be in His presence in like manner.

I do not believe that angelic beings are capable of redemption because they have seen God. Once we have seen eternity, there is no more need for faith. So, to have seen and still reject Him, one's fate is sealed.

I've never been taught this; it is a conclusion I have reached based on what I have learned from the scriptures. It may or may not be accurate, but I know this one thing: God's dealings with others does not in any way affect my accountability to Him.
 
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Gringo said:
Why does God not extend salvation to angels that sided with His first creation who chose evil. Why can't a demon believe in Christ and be saved - since he is a creation that chose sin just like you and I did. ?
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I believe the key verse that would explain this is 1 Timothy 1:13 where the apostle Paul explains why God showed mercy to him. “Who was before a blasphemer, and a persecutor, and injurious: but I obtained mercy, because I did it ignorantly in unbelief.”

Heb 5:1 For every high priest taken from among men is ordained for men in things pertaining to God, that he may offer both gifts and sacrifices for sins:
Heb 5:2 Who can have compassion on the ignorant (mankind), and on them that are out of the way; for that he himself also is compassed with infirmity.

Luke 23:34 Then said Jesus, Father, forgive them; for they know not what they do. And they parted his raiment, and cast lots.

When Satan and the angels rebelled they rebelled with full knowledge whereas the human race is born in ignorance and unbelief and without divine revelation as given in the Scriptures we would continue to be lost and without hope in this world. Even in the garden of Eden Adam and Eve did not have the knowledge that Satan and the angels had for in Genesis 3:4-5 it says:

Gen 3:4 But the serpent said to the woman, “You will not surely die.
Gen 3:5 For God knows that when you eat of it your eyes will be opened, and you will be like God, knowing good and evil.”

1 Tim 3:13 but I obtained mercy - “He does not say, because I was unconditionally elected; but because I did it in ignorance. Not that his ignorance took away his sin; but it left him capable of mercy; which he would hardly have been, had he acted thus contrary to his own conviction. John Wesley
 
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Thanks for those verses. That's a good answer. You too, AB
 
What then, does that say about "backsliders", who know better and aren't "ignorant"?

What happens to them?
 
If we say we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. If we say we have not sinned, we make Him out to be a liar, and His word is not in us. 1 John 1:8-10

We all sin. Sometimes we stray for a little, sometimes for longer. Yet a believer will be miserable in his "backslidden" condition. I've been there, I've done that.

Continual "backsliding" and an attitude of not being grieved by it may indicate that conversion never happened.
 
Gringo said:
Here another question that apparently, we arent to worry about until we get to Heaven: why does God not extend salvation to angels that sided with His first creation who chose evil. Why can't a demon believe in Christ and be saved - since he is a creation that chose sin just like you and I did. ?
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Hebrews 2:16 For verily he took not on him the nature of angels; but he took on him the seed of Abraham.
 
ALAYMAN said:
Hebrews 2:16 For verily he took not on him the nature of angels; but he took on him the seed of Abraham.
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I'm genuinely asking: what is the "nature" of angels? What does that verse mean?
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Some of you are stalwarts, you've been here for years and never waivered. Thank you for speaking with me on these issues.
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Gringo said:
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I'm genuinely asking: what is the "nature" of angels? What does that verse mean?
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The NIV puts it this way:

Who, being in very nature God,
did not consider equality with God something to be used to his own advantage;
rather, he made himself nothing
by taking the very nature of a servant,
being made in human likeness.
And being found in appearance as a man,
he humbled himself
by becoming obedient to death—
even death on a cross!
Philippines 2:6-8

Jesus took on human form to die for our sins. He never took on angelic form for such a purpose. Only a human being can pay a human being's debt. Angels cannot pay for humanity nor vice versa. Humans and angels are two different species, if you will.
 
Gringo said:
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I'm genuinely asking: what is the "nature" of angels? What does that verse mean?
.
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Thanks for asking. Some folks answers in this thread sort of covered the "nature" of angels question. Angels were in direct contact and communion with God in all His glory of a pristine and perfect heaven, but elected to rebel despite that. Angels, unlike man, were not created in God's image/likeness (google "Imago Dei" for deeper understanding). That would take a lot more to explain than a short answer allows. It is usually understood that angels are spirit beings, unlike man who has a physical body. Angels, being spirit beings, have not suffered in the same manner is sinful men. I could go on, but the short answer to your question is that Hebrews was written to the early (very Jewish) church to demonstrate how the Messiah/Jesus was superior to all other previous Jewish/religious understandings of God/Yahweh, and that He could not be compared to, among other things, angels. Jesus' purpose for coming to earth, in the form of a human, was to be the substitute for them, and to do so as a man. An angel could not do that, never having the same nature as man.

Did that answer your question, or at least begin to answer it? Here's more reading on it if you care to delve a little deeper...

Ligonier: Abraham's Offspring

Precept Austin Commentaries
 
ALAYMAN said:
Thanks for asking. Some folks answers in this thread sort of covered the "nature" of angels question. Angels were in direct contact and communion with God in all His glory of a pristine and perfect heaven, but elected to rebel despite that. Angels, unlike man, were not created in God's image/likeness (google "Imago Dei" for deeper understanding). That would take a lot more to explain than a short answer allows. It is usually understood that angels are spirit beings, unlike man who has a physical body. Angels, being spirit beings, have not suffered in the same manner is sinful men. I could go on, but the short answer to your question is that Hebrews was written to the early (very Jewish) church to demonstrate how the Messiah/Jesus was superior to all other previous Jewish/religious understandings of God/Yahweh, and that He could not be compared to, among other things, angels. Jesus' purpose for coming to earth, in the form of a human, was to be the substitute for them, and to do so as a man. An angel could not do that, never having the same nature as man.

Did that answer your question, or at least begin to answer it? Here's more reading on it if you care to delve a little deeper...

Ligonier: Abraham's Offspring

Precept Austin Commentaries
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Excellent answer and commentary.
 
Smellin Coffee said:
Isn't the messaging that Christians shouldn’t be persecuting other people a good thing good? Sure is, but in doing so it still establishes a distinct line between the heroes (generally but not exclusively the stereotypical white cis Christian) and the villains - those who need "salvation". It implies that it is the LGBTQ community, the woman accessing the women's clinic and the Muslims are the ones who needs to repent.

It is extremely insidious and in my perisomal opinion, in opposition to the love Jesus taught and demonstrated.
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Smellin, you can mock God for only so long before judgment will come on you and every other unrepentant sinner. "The raging river of God's judgment against the dam of God's mercy will one day break forth upon a Christ rejecting world."
Rev 6:12 And I beheld when he had opened the sixth seal, and, lo, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood;
Rev 6:13 And the stars of heaven fell unto the earth, even as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs, when she is shaken of a mighty wind.
Rev 6:14 And the heaven departed as a scroll when it is rolled together; and every mountain and island were moved out of their places.
Rev 6:15 And the kings of the earth, and the great men, and the rich men, and the chief captains, and the mighty men, and every bondman, and every free man, hid themselves in the dens and in the rocks of the mountains;
Rev 6:16 And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb:
Rev 6:17 For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand?

 
Well, the church that Vivian and I have been visiting started discussing the "He Gets Us" commercials in Sunday School. The deacon brought the subject up and stated that he didn't see the controversy behind the commercials. Vivian and I decided to sit and listen to hear what this church thought about the controversy, and if they even really understood what a lot of the issues with the commercials were. This church recently split from the United Methodist Church and became a Community church. They don't consider themselves Methodists now. A friend of ours who was pastoring a Cumberland Presbyterian church down in Lewisburg, TN was asked to take the church. He has a background in the HW Armstrong Worldwide Church of God groups and has been Presbyterian for around 20 years. He started pastoring this church on the first Sunday of 2024. We decided to go and assist for a short time. So, after sitting there and listening to some of the answers our friend's (he's the pastor) wife starts on how much of the controversy was over how Christ got the LGBTQ+, drug addicts, and people living in adultery or fornication and loved them. Not once did she bring up how when Christ "got" someone they "GOT" him and there was a change in their lives. Our pastor friend's daughter went to Bethany Christian College and came home and told her parents that she was a lesbian and was going to marry the girl who came home with her. That was three years ago. She's not married her partner, but, has instead come out as non-binary and several other things since then. So, though we know that they are taking a strong stand against their child's lifestyle choices, we know that they love their daughter, as they should. At any rate, the doo-doo was getting pretty deep, and I asked if I could interject for just a moment. Pastor Greg asked me to proceed, which I did. I pointed out that once Christ "got" the woman at the well, she went and told others. When he "got" the woman taken in adultery, she got him and her life changed. I pointed out several others. The pastor's wife, though our friend, got very uncomfortable. Not that I believe she was trying to keep it in a compromising position, but, because she and her husband hadn't said anything as I did. The deacon looked shocked, as did his wife, and the deacon's son was very uncomfortable. I told Greg that if I had started a controversy in the church and it was going to be something that was going to affect his ability to stay as pastor I would withdraw....little did I know, but, the things I had brought out were right in line with Greg's sermon, and how many were changed once brought face to face with Christ because he "got" them, and they "got" him in their lives and changed to live for him....We've been asked to stay. The church is running between 30 and 50 people. There are no youth there at all, and the median age group is 40. They want to see more youth coming and would like to start a community outreach. This Church has been around for 136 years or more. They want to do what is right. But, after being in the Methodists for so many years, it's going to be hard. There is already resistance to some of the things the Bible reveals as truth. Please pray for these people as they seek to learn more about God's will for them.
 
I have excellent commentaries from Messianic rabbi's such as Rabbi Jason Sobel, Baruch Korman and the late David H. Stern.
 
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