Hello, Folks!

Smellin Coffee

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Someone on FB yesterday wondered if I would ever be back on this forum. Thought I would peek in.

And for those who haven't kept up with me, I'm sure you won't be surprised but I've deconstructed what was once my faith. At the present time I am neither theist nor atheist but rather a hybrid of both.

Not sure if/how much I will get back involved here so I'm just peeking in to evaluate and say "Hi!" to some former friends.
 
Kind of a gender-fluid concept, but for theology eh?😁😉

Jump right in smelling’, the water’s still warm.
Yep. Living in and accepting uncertainty, enjoying the dialectic that is the certainty of uncertainty. :)
 
Yep. Living in and accepting uncertainty, enjoying the dialectic that is the certainty of uncertainty. :)

You'll never reach beyond the ceiling of that dialectic trap because of unaided human reasoning IMNSHO. 😊
 
You'll never reach beyond the ceiling of that dialectic trap because of unaided human reasoning IMNSHO. 😊

Meh. Relative human reasoning is all ANY of us has because nothing (including God, IMHO) is at one with itself.

Not worried about being right. After all, I am allowed to drift toward truth as it is revealed.

I'm more worried about being ethical. :)
 
Then you agree there is an ultimate truth to drift towards?
Of course. But I don't believe humanity has the capability or the knowledge to comprehend the nuances of what that truth is or how that truth can/should be related to behaviors. We are so finite, humanity will never be able to come to all those conclusions. Hence, science changes as information develops because we are learning new information about given subjects that had never been discovered or applied before. True science GENERALLY holds truth for what it is at the moment but should parameters be introduced, it flexes enough to accept new data and drift that direction.

If God exists outside of time and space, humanity is incapable of understanding outside of the time/space continuum. We cannot know its origins, its existence, its possible interaction within time/space, etc. All we can do is project what we believe that thing is. We have to believe finite testimony "Bible, Quran, etc.) about the unknowable which means all we have is perception and projection. That perception and projection is created on culture, knowledge, search for possible reason and bias, hence the Native "god" is believed in and differs from Zeus which is different than Jehovah which is different than Dionysus, etc. Time and cultures identify "god" differently because the drift (and along with that, a belief of the source of the drift) will always be a human element to the unknown.

If both a Christian and a Muslim pray and become healed from cancer, either will claim it was his god that healed them both. Of course there is no positive link between any "god" and the healings of both but it certainly can be perceived and believed. Neither is right and yet both are right. "God" is the placeholder identity of that which we cannot know or understand.
 
Meh. Relative human reasoning is all ANY of us has because nothing (including God, IMHO) is at one with itself.

Not worried about being right. After all, I am allowed to drift toward truth as it is revealed.

I'm more worried about being ethical. :)

Whose ethics, and why should I or anybody else subscribe to them?
 
Of course. But I don't believe humanity has the capability or the knowledge to comprehend the nuances of what that truth is or how that truth can/should be related to behaviors. We are so finite, humanity will never be able to come to all those conclusions. Hence, science changes as information develops because we are learning new information about given subjects that had never been discovered or applied before. True science GENERALLY holds truth for what it is at the moment but should parameters be introduced, it flexes enough to accept new data and drift that direction.

If God exists outside of time and space, humanity is incapable of understanding outside of the time/space continuum. We cannot know its origins, its existence, its possible interaction within time/space, etc. All we can do is project what we believe that thing is. We have to believe finite testimony "Bible, Quran, etc.) about the unknowable which means all we have is perception and projection. That perception and projection is created on culture, knowledge, search for possible reason and bias, hence the Native "god" is believed in and differs from Zeus which is different than Jehovah which is different than Dionysus, etc. Time and cultures identify "god" differently because the drift (and along with that, a belief of the source of the drift) will always be a human element to the unknown.

If both a Christian and a Muslim pray and become healed from cancer, either will claim it was his god that healed them both. Of course there is no positive link between any "god" and the healings of both but it certainly can be perceived and believed. Neither is right and yet both are right. "God" is the placeholder identity of that which we cannot know or understand.
With unaided reason you’re right about the certainty or lack thereof about God, but via revelation and incarnation we can know if these things be true, objectively.
 
With unaided reason you’re right about the certainty or lack thereof about God, but via revelation and incarnation we can know if these things be true, objectively.
Again, revelation and incarnation can only be hypothesis, based on relative informational exposure and a somewhat cultural bias. Hence, human projection.
 
Whose ethics, and why should I or anybody else subscribe to them?
Ethics are cultural and in essence, relative. And ethics can be either good or bad.

There is no binary source of ethics. Stealing food from a grocery store - generally bad. Stealing food from a grocery store when there is no money and to feed a starving baby, generally good.

The question I ask myself is this: will this cause harm or good? If both, will it be more helpful to the one of the two that is most marginalized or will it help the oppressive person or system?

Not saying my position is a universal mandate for anyone else but this is how I choose to live. Which means yes, I am the source of what I deem is right and wrong. FYI, so does EVERY PERSON who lives. They might cloak it in "God's Word" but it is ultimately their choice to determine the source, its interpretation and application, hence making the choice of ethics a relative one.

To have absolute binary knowledge is original sin: to be like God, knowing good and evil, determining who is in and who is out.

Of course there is contradiction in that because to determine the empire is out or say, sexual predators are out is a part of "playing God" so humanity has no choice but to be its own god. So yes, I am a contradiction. :)
 
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We are so finite, humanity will never be able to come to all those conclusions.
Isn’t that the whole point of “faith”?
If both a Christian and a Muslim pray and become healed from cancer, either will claim it was his god that healed them both.
If it’s in God’s plan, it could be an atheist who is miraculously healed of cancer.
 
Someone on FB yesterday wondered if I would ever be back on this forum. Thought I would peek in.

And for those who haven't kept up with me, I'm sure you won't be surprised but I've deconstructed what was once my faith. At the present time I am neither theist nor atheist but rather a hybrid of both.

Not sure if/how much I will get back involved here so I'm just peeking in to evaluate and say "Hi!" to some former friends.
Smellin', Good to hear from you. I have thought about you from time to time. Any contribution you can give to the forum is always appreciated. You have a wealth of memories, even if not all that fond, of all things FBCH.
Post away!
 
Isn’t that the whole point of “faith”?

If it’s in God’s plan, it could be an atheist who is miraculously healed of cancer.

Exactly. Faith is not evidence: it is a presupposition of and a belief in the unverifiable. And if it is "God's plan" for miraculous healing, which "god"?

Again, both of the above statements indicate we EACH determine our belief systems based on our personal purview, not on physical evidence. Not saying our personal tenet of belief is right or wrong, just stating it is unprovable and mankind does not have the biological capacity in the human brain to understand that which may originate beyond time and space.
 
Isn’t that the whole point of “faith”?
BOO-YAH! You've nailed it.

And without faith it is impossible to please God, because anyone who approaches Him must believe that He exists and that He rewards those who earnestly seek Him. Hebrews 11:6 BSB

Faith. It was required of Adam and Eve before the fall; they were given the information they needed: Eat of this one tree and you'll die. God didn't expound on the whys, He expected them to trust Him, not understand Him.
 
BOO-YAH! You've nailed it.

And without faith it is impossible to please God, because anyone who approaches Him must believe that He exists and that He rewards those who earnestly seek Him. Hebrews 11:6 BSB

Faith. It was required of Adam and Eve before the fall; they were given the information they needed: Eat of this one tree and you'll die. God didn't expound on the whys, He expected them to trust Him, not understand Him.
ALL religions are based on faith. The problem is trying to prove which one to have faith in. Once we figure that out (which has yet to be done throughout human history, then we have to drill down as to which theology to adhere to, then the hermeneutic application, etc. Remember, Catholics, Mormons, JWs, etc. all "seek God" through Jesus Christ yet their beliefs are considered heretical.
 
Exactly. Faith is not evidence: it is a presupposition of and a belief in the unverifiable. And if it is "God's plan" for miraculous healing, which "god"?

Again, both of the above statements indicate we EACH determine our belief systems based on our personal purview, not on physical evidence. Not saying our personal tenet of belief is right or wrong, just stating it is unprovable and mankind does not have the biological capacity in the human brain to understand that which may originate beyond time and space.
When I get an opportunity, I’ll respond, but for now, suffice to say I believe you’re completely wrong and I can show that…
 
I see someone else hasn't changed!

So much for growth, but that's not my cross to bear. :)
 
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