If You Ain't Got Hymnals, You Apostate!
- Thread starter Twisted
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That'll get a debate going!Twisted said:
?Since they first appeared in the United States during the 1830s, hymnals have been indispensable for worship...?
Indispensable? I found hymnals to be a great expense for a church which ultimately led the church to sing the familiar ?twenty? hymns and no more.
I have yet to know a church, with a hymnal of over 400 hymns actually explore more than 5% of the hymnal.
Churches, with screens, have the inexpensive opportunity to bring in fresh, truth-laden worship songs.
Our particular church sings songs that have sometimes have the older hymns coupled with new tunes and new attending lyrics.
Indispensable? I found hymnals to be a great expense for a church which ultimately led the church to sing the familiar ?twenty? hymns and no more.
I have yet to know a church, with a hymnal of over 400 hymns actually explore more than 5% of the hymnal.
Churches, with screens, have the inexpensive opportunity to bring in fresh, truth-laden worship songs.
Our particular church sings songs that have sometimes have the older hymns coupled with new tunes and new attending lyrics.
Should we also bring up the hymn book wars?
Which hymn book was in your pew was an indicator as to how fundamental your church was... if you dared to replace Majesty Hymns with MacArthur?s hymn book... you got the theological brow lift!
Which hymn book was in your pew was an indicator as to how fundamental your church was... if you dared to replace Majesty Hymns with MacArthur?s hymn book... you got the theological brow lift!
I know what you're saying about the 20 hymns and no more. We have sung At the Cross three times in the last month. Ughhhh.
I'm a hymn type guy, but I love exploring the hymbsl learning 150 year old songs we have never sung.
Can I get a witness.
I'm a hymn type guy, but I love exploring the hymbsl learning 150 year old songs we have never sung.
Can I get a witness.
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The article states the obvious:
For those who attend their church?s traditional service, the demographic trends are not encouraging. Ushers for these services might as well require an AARP card for entry.
The survey didn?t come right out and say it, but informal worship with contemporary Christian music (CCM) seems to have won the worship war. All the megachurches are doing it. It?s hard to find many churches that haven?t bowed at least one knee to the modern, informal trend.
The last sentence must reference IFB imposters like Paul Chappell and Josh Teis.
For those who attend their church?s traditional service, the demographic trends are not encouraging. Ushers for these services might as well require an AARP card for entry.
The survey didn?t come right out and say it, but informal worship with contemporary Christian music (CCM) seems to have won the worship war. All the megachurches are doing it. It?s hard to find many churches that haven?t bowed at least one knee to the modern, informal trend.
The last sentence must reference IFB imposters like Paul Chappell and Josh Teis.
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Twisted said:
To be consistent, you, me and Tom Brennan shouldn?t read this article until it comes out in a print edition.
I don't even know who all of you really are, but that's good!Tarheel Baptist said:
Tarheel Baptist said:
Elderly people go to these contemporary services too. Some churches even provide ear plugs for those who can't stand the decibel level and the really elderly don't even need them - they can just take out their hearing aids.
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brianb said:
I have never felt having multiple services with totally different ?cultures? was good for any local church, so our morning services are all identical. Some older people do indeed attend more contemporary services, but that tends to be the exception and not the general rule.
My personal opinion is that church music is swinging back to a more traditional baseline. But that will take awhile...churches move at the pace of glaciers in making change.
The honorable Rev. FSSL said:
Our hymnal has well over 500 hymns; I haven't counted, but I think we have sung many of them. I'm sure we are WAY over just 25 hymns.
The honorable Rev. FSSL said:
Well... the danger with screens is throwing up any old song; hopefully, the time and research that goes into making a hymnal may have a tendency to put in better songs.
The honorable Rev. FSSL said:
I guess I managed to miss all of this kind of warring.
I have heard comments about certain hymnals which changed the words to fit their beliefs - specifically, "Soul-Stirring Hymns and Songs" which removed 'repent' everywhere. They promised to put it back, but in their new version, they didn't.
Tarheel Baptist said:
This is an excellent point.
Baptist City Holdout said:
I fully agree with the author (and my primary issue with screens) is that it only has the words, not the notes. Even if I know the melody, but want to sing an alto or tenor part, it is very hard without the nodes.
However, I don't agree that screens "slap your aesthetic sensibilities" -- surely that depends on the user.
There also seems to be an anti-technology bias... technology, in and of itself, isn't necessarily bad.
I agree that the older (proper) hymns have sound doctrine behind them and are useful to "teach one another" in song -- but that has NOTHING to do with using screens... it's another debate.
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The IFB church I grew up in had the Soul Stirring Songs and Hymns hymnal and regularly sang over 250 of the hymns. Which isn't all 500 but still, a large percentage.
My wife and I were discussing the "hymns vs. contemporary songs on a screen" ideas the other day with a couple that was helping with a newly started church and the pros of contemporary songs on a screen seem to far outweigh the pros of a hymnal.
Namely:
1. Familiarity - singing the songs that are played on the local radio stations (K-Love, etc) are easier to get the congregation to join in (specifically in reference to a new church reaching the unchurched)
2. Ease of learning - contemporary worship songs are very easy to learn. Only a few words repeated in the chorus and the melody is almost formulaic.
3. Cheaper - most of time, it's cheaper to have a projector and screen - which has multi-use purpose in a church - than several hymnals
My wife and I were discussing the "hymns vs. contemporary songs on a screen" ideas the other day with a couple that was helping with a newly started church and the pros of contemporary songs on a screen seem to far outweigh the pros of a hymnal.
Namely:
1. Familiarity - singing the songs that are played on the local radio stations (K-Love, etc) are easier to get the congregation to join in (specifically in reference to a new church reaching the unchurched)
2. Ease of learning - contemporary worship songs are very easy to learn. Only a few words repeated in the chorus and the melody is almost formulaic.
3. Cheaper - most of time, it's cheaper to have a projector and screen - which has multi-use purpose in a church - than several hymnals
Darkwing Duck said:
I've seen contemporary worship songs that are quite lengthy. Also screens are not for everyone as not everyone wants to keep their head up to look at a screen - some people are unable to do that. Fortunately for me I have the ability to sing by ear (like a musician may play by ear) without looking at a hymn book or screen. Not everyone can do that though. There are also a lot of people who don't sing in these contemporary churches - that could be because many of them aren't believers or just have no reason to sing - it's not necessarily that they hate the songs. Go to a more traditional church though and you will find the congregation as loud or louder than any choir or band.
Hymn Books:
Pros -
1. Older songs that have stood the test of time and have been embraced by the "Church" as a whole
2. Music notes that allow for 4 part harmony and/or the ability to sing a new song by reading the music
3. Familiarity from church to church and from age to age
Contemporary Songs on the Wall:
Pros-
1. It shows that God can bless song writers today and that the current generation can praise God with song
2. People are looking up instead of burrying their nose in a book and letting their voices fall to the floor
3. Oftentimes easier to sing with fewer "high's and low's"
I could list the con's but they would generally be the opposite of the pro's.
The point is that their is probably no "right and wrong" way of presenting Christian Music. If it honors God and is blessed by the Holy Spirit, then I cannot criticize either method.
I will preach against music that is worldly or sung "in the flesh." Unfortunately, that is kind of like pornography. I can't define it....I just know it when I see it.
Pros -
1. Older songs that have stood the test of time and have been embraced by the "Church" as a whole
2. Music notes that allow for 4 part harmony and/or the ability to sing a new song by reading the music
3. Familiarity from church to church and from age to age
Contemporary Songs on the Wall:
Pros-
1. It shows that God can bless song writers today and that the current generation can praise God with song
2. People are looking up instead of burrying their nose in a book and letting their voices fall to the floor
3. Oftentimes easier to sing with fewer "high's and low's"
I could list the con's but they would generally be the opposite of the pro's.
The point is that their is probably no "right and wrong" way of presenting Christian Music. If it honors God and is blessed by the Holy Spirit, then I cannot criticize either method.
I will preach against music that is worldly or sung "in the flesh." Unfortunately, that is kind of like pornography. I can't define it....I just know it when I see it.
cpizzle said:
It is cultural.
We had a sincere couple sing in rural Wisconsin IFB church. They were raised in West Virginia. Unfortunately, the IFB Wisconsinites could not appreciate the sincerity of their music.