Are we to believe that you have intimate knowledge of each and every one of these 412 cases? I find that rather hard to believe. If not, then you have no credibility to say that not one of them have been handled properly or scripturally.AnkleBone said:
IFB Sexual abuse
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Citadel of Truth said:
Exactly. AnkleBone is making false accusations against many. He is guilty of bearing false witness. I wonder if he will repent of his sin? Should we bring him before the entire forum so that he can be publicly proclaimed as a sinner and givne opportunity to repent or be banished forevermore?
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AnkleBone said:
Oh, don't exaggerate. It s just all the bad apples making the one or two honest guys look bad.
https://www.star-telegram.com/living/religion/article223132890.html
Wha-Woe!
Lawsuits and criminal investigations are starting
https://www.star-telegram.com/living/religion/article223155890.html
And this isn't the last media exposure either. Something big is coming from cable in January
Wha-Woe!
Lawsuits and criminal investigations are starting
https://www.star-telegram.com/living/religion/article223155890.html
And this isn't the last media exposure either. Something big is coming from cable in January
The IFB needs to institute standards of accountability and reporting. It's not hard, and it is commanded in the New Testament.
Failing that, the culture of abuse in the IFB needs to be prominently investigated and reported until it shrinks down to the smallest number of hardcore nutcases possible. Because it is a culture of abuse and self-justification. Just look at the responses: "Everybody does it," "We're no different from any other religion" [absolutely true, by the way. Nothing that Fundamentalists preach as a system of holiness is actually a system of holiness. The IFB is as worldly and corrupt as Las Vegas Nevada; it's just at the other end of the spectrum. And when the IFBers say they are no different, they are telling the truth. They are just another piece of the world.] "It's not that bad" "Nobody knows the whole story" And my favorite, the sentiment that a person who points this out might be an atheist. Thank you for not calling me gay.
These are the responses of a culture of indifference and abuse of the weak. But the culture of Jesus Christ is love, generosity, and self sacrifice. The growing and thriving NT church stopped in its tracks on behalf of a group of impoverished Greek widows and made things right. But the IFB, clearly, is not going to institute corrective actions to protect children.
Failing that, the culture of abuse in the IFB needs to be prominently investigated and reported until it shrinks down to the smallest number of hardcore nutcases possible. Because it is a culture of abuse and self-justification. Just look at the responses: "Everybody does it," "We're no different from any other religion" [absolutely true, by the way. Nothing that Fundamentalists preach as a system of holiness is actually a system of holiness. The IFB is as worldly and corrupt as Las Vegas Nevada; it's just at the other end of the spectrum. And when the IFBers say they are no different, they are telling the truth. They are just another piece of the world.] "It's not that bad" "Nobody knows the whole story" And my favorite, the sentiment that a person who points this out might be an atheist. Thank you for not calling me gay.
These are the responses of a culture of indifference and abuse of the weak. But the culture of Jesus Christ is love, generosity, and self sacrifice. The growing and thriving NT church stopped in its tracks on behalf of a group of impoverished Greek widows and made things right. But the IFB, clearly, is not going to institute corrective actions to protect children.
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AnkleBone said:
Many IFB take pride in being "independent" and would see your suggestion as heresy.
Perhaps the better solution would be for everyone to properly report and convict sexual crimes and run background checks on all staff - including the pastor - prior to being placed in a position. I have seen a few IFB Churches do this already in the nursery.
As mentioned. This is a crime. It should be reported properly.
I suppose if one wanted to, they could start a national ministry that runs a website or hotline where people could report abuse for their Church. It would offer support for the victim and potential accountability for the Church. Many IFB stand behind ministry's as help aids. It could run as a mission for the sexual abused in America.
Tim said:
There are many independent or non-denominational churches that don't have a sexual abuse problem. I believe at the heart it is a spiritual problem. Pastors need to follow the scriptural pattern of being an example of the believers before being an overseer or ruler and not usurping authority that only belongs to Christ.
Citadel of Truth said:
YES. Handling a case of such depraved sin biblically requires that a church expel the offending person from the church fellowship (not the same thing as firing the person, though firing the person would be a part of it). And the Bible requires that a public record be made of the person who has walked unworthy of the profession of Christ.
SO YES. We would all know when a church obeys the Bible in dealing with a church member who molests a child. AND the Bible requires that a PASTOR who sins so horribly is to be REBUKED BEFORE ALL. There would be no back room deals and arrangements. A pastor who molests children gets denounced from the pulpit, loudly and broadly, then expelled, then other churches are warned of what he has done, and a record of his offense and the harm he has done is published. NONE OF THAT HAS EVER HAPPENED IN ANY OF THESE CASES. Christianity, as taught in the Bible, is transparent and filled with integrity.
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AnkleBone said:
But what if a church discovers this behavior, terminates the employee, removes the employee from membership, notifies the authorities, attempts to offer support to the offended (though they may not be qualified to do so) and agrees to notify any future employee who requests information that the offender has committed this crime?
What if that actually happened? Oh Wait. IT DID! In many of these cases, this is exactly what happened. You are just not willing to do research. You simply want to scream accusations.
We all agree that many of these cases were mishandled. The mishandling of these cases are what much of this site is built on. However, to make the claim that NONE of them were handled properly is just wrong.
They've still failed to meet the standard of the Scripture, which requires that the offender be rebuked before all (even in absentia) so that all may fear/respect. Firing somebody is not the same thing as church discipline. Church discipline of fallen elders (pastors) is public, loud, and transparent. The entire story comes out, the offender is identified before the entire church (at large, as Paul did with Peter--no local church crap there. To this day the Church knows that Peter shunned Gentile believers in order to curry favor with Judaizers). And a record is kept of those who refuse repentance but keep professing to be Christians so that the church at large is warned away from the wolves. That is all Biblical, and that has NOT been done.
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AnkleBone said:
I think you should present the logistics of this idea at the next national convention meeting for the IFB and have the vote on such a resolution.
That would have to be the Sword Conference or one of those countless conferences held in the IFB as they defend their independence and then betray their dishonesty. I have discovered that the "independence" of the IFB is a handy garment they can put on and take off as they like. They put it on the moment they whiff of accountability reaches them, and then take it off when they want to have a "conference" to flog their wares or improve their standings.
The Bible says that the Body of Christ is one body: one more core doctrine thrown away by the IFB. Also another reason that their deviant pastors get away with so much,
The Bible says that the Body of Christ is one body: one more core doctrine thrown away by the IFB. Also another reason that their deviant pastors get away with so much,
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AnkleBone said:
Yes, but you have a problem: each of those conferences represent a different sect of the denomination that does not respect the other. It is true that some have moved from one sect to the other without good referrals. So you will have to unite these sects and present the idea and all of the logistics for it at that unified meeting.
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AnkleBone said:
now you are just ignorant. Each church doesn't answer to the other.... even in the SBC the convention does not control the church.
You are far from biased and your butthurt is showing !
The IFB movement has its issues but you cant hang em all for the crimes of a few.
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Southern Baptists are just as corrupt:
https://www.houstonchronicle.com/news/investigations/article/Southern-Baptist-sexual-abuse-spreads-as-leaders-13588038.php?utm_campaign=CMS%20Sharing%20Tools%20(Premium)&utm_source=t.co&utm_medium=referral&utm_campaign=CMS%20Sharing%20Tools%20(Premium)&utm_source=t.co&utm_medium=referral
Don't forget the missionary kids from New Tribes Missions who were abused by missionaries overseas:
https://www.nbcnews.com/news/religion/ungodly-abuse-lasting-torment-new-tribes-missionary-kids-n967191
Yep. Core to all these stories? Religious agreement in having violent atonement theologies. They are just expressed differently between the Calvinists, Evangelicals, IFB, Catholics, etc. Abusive theology begets abuse and provides shelter for abusers.
https://www.houstonchronicle.com/news/investigations/article/Southern-Baptist-sexual-abuse-spreads-as-leaders-13588038.php?utm_campaign=CMS%20Sharing%20Tools%20(Premium)&utm_source=t.co&utm_medium=referral&utm_campaign=CMS%20Sharing%20Tools%20(Premium)&utm_source=t.co&utm_medium=referral
Don't forget the missionary kids from New Tribes Missions who were abused by missionaries overseas:
https://www.nbcnews.com/news/religion/ungodly-abuse-lasting-torment-new-tribes-missionary-kids-n967191
Yep. Core to all these stories? Religious agreement in having violent atonement theologies. They are just expressed differently between the Calvinists, Evangelicals, IFB, Catholics, etc. Abusive theology begets abuse and provides shelter for abusers.
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Penal substitutionary atonement turns missionaries into rapists.
- actual thought expressed by Smellin Coffee, moonbat
- actual thought expressed by Smellin Coffee, moonbat
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Ransom said:
Of perhaps, like in the case of Bob Gray/Florida, abusers are turned into missionaries.
Plant the seeds of penal substitutionary atonement, water heavily with biblical inerrancy, fertilize with literal hellfire, tend to with manipulation and not only can you grow a bumper crop of misogynists, homophobes, authoritarians and manipulators, but the environment of toxic masculinity is ripe for the development of abusers of women and children.
Granted there are those from without religious circles that are also abusive, but rarely is it intentionally implanted in children and recruiting new folks into the same mindset as is found in these churches. Throw in doctrines of ultimate forgiveness, unaccompanied access to women and children, the desire to maintain a clean reputation for the organization (church) and a relocation program if needed, you have the perfect environment that attracts abusers in addition to the homegrown.
My kids were safer in their public schools than in the churches we attended.*
*Note of irony: the teacher at our local high school last year who was arrested for having sex with a student just happened to be a Liberty graduate just a couple years ago...
https://www.foxnews.com/us/married-teacher-and-jv-cheerleading-coach-23-arrested-for-sex-affair-with-teen-boy-student